Thoughts on faith or works based salvation?

[Disciple777]

There are some passages which emphasise that you only need to accept christ to go to heaven, whereas others emphasise that works are needed also to go to heaven.

I have heard that once you accept christ, he will work in you so that you perform the works needed to go to heaven. So technically both but accepting christ alone is what causes the works to happen.

However, there are people that accept christ but then end up falling off the path, some even dying before they stop backsliding and havent done any works.

What are your thoughts on this matter?

 

[d taylor]

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In The Bible there is no such way to heaven as by works. In daily life there are only people who believe they can enter heaven by works.

 

[Disciple777]

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In The Bible there is no such way to heaven as by works. In daily life there are only people who believe they can enter heaven by works

14What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you tells him, “Go in peace; stay warm and well fed,” but does not provide for his physical needs, what good is that? 17So too, faith by itself, if it does not result in action,f is dead.

18But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that God is one.g Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?h 21Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”i and he was called a friend of God.j 24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute justified by her actions when she welcomed the spiesk and sent them off on another route? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

James 2 BSB

 

[d taylor]

14What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you tells him, “Go in peace; stay warm and well fed,” but does not provide for his physical needs, what good is that? 17So too, faith by itself, if it does not result in action,f is dead.

18But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that God is one.g Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?h 21Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”i and he was called a friend of God.j 24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute justified by her actions when she welcomed the spiesk and sent them off on another route? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

James 2 BSB

The saving is not an Eternal Life salvation in James as James was written to believers. The saving is a physical life saving.of a believer. Also a person (a believer) is justified before God by faith in The Messiah a person (a believer) is justified before man by their deeds.

 

[d taylor]

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Paul's deeds saved him on the island of Malta , when he was bitten by a viper. If he had not been obedient to God after becoming a born again child of God, he may have lost his physical life after the viper bite.

 

[HTacianas]

There are some passages which emphasise that you only need to accept christ to go to heaven, whereas others emphasise that works are needed also to go to heaven.

I have heard that once you accept christ, he will work in you so that you perform the works needed to go to heaven. So technically both but accepting christ alone is what causes the works to happen.

However, there are people that accept christ but then end up falling off the path, some even dying before they stop backsliding and havent done any works.

What are your thoughts on this matter?

It is by grace through faith that we enter into salvation. It is our works afterwards that determine if we remain in that salvation.

 

[sandman]

It is by grace through faith that we enter into salvation. It is our works afterwards that determine if we remain in that salvation.

If that were the case ...then it is not by grace.

 

[HTacianas]

If that were the case ...then it is not by grace.

Sure it is. It is by grace that we receive forgiveness of our previous sins.

Rom 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

We enter into salvation not as a reward for anything we may have done previously.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

And it is by our works that we ultimately attain salvation, see Matthew 25:31-46.

 

[sandman]

And it is by our works that we ultimately attain salvation, see Matthew 25:31-46.

Jesus was speaking to Israel regarding things pertaining to the Day of the Lord ...which is future [Revelation] ...and does not apply to us in this administration (dispensation) of grace of the one body of Christ.

 

[HTacianas]

Jesus was speaking to Israel regarding things pertaining to the Day of the Lord ...which is future [Revelation] ...and does not apply to us in this administration (dispensation) of grace of the one body of Christ.

Who was it that came up with that idea?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

It is a two sided coin.
If you have faith, then your life will generate works like a tree produces fruit. It is inevitable.
The fruit are not required for salvation, but it is a result.

 

[sandman]

Who was it that came up with that idea?

~GOD~

 

[Zandy12]

I believe that the Protestant Reformation movement was one of the most important in history. It allowed women and minorities to start leading churches which further advanced human rights for Western Civilization. Protestants, and other similar denominations, believe that one can be saved without works. I think we all as Christians believe that good works is important. However, I think when they are countering the argument of good works, they may be referring to the works mandated by the Catholic Church.

I'm Catholic. I believe it's important that we as brothers and sisters from all denominations should come together for our faith in Jesus being the Son of God.

 

[timothyu]

In The Bible there is no such way to heaven as by works.

Yet for some reason I get notified everyday that I've EARNED 100.00 blessings

 

[d taylor]

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In receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation, works by a person account for absolutely nothing before God.

Receiving Eternal Life happens in a moment of time, in that moment of faith in The Messiah, a person permanently crosses over from death to life never to cross back over. They become a permanent born again child of God. God's not only provides the free gift of Eternal Life, free of works by a person. But God also permanently keeps the born again child of God, regardless of how they live out their lives, in the faith or fallen away from faith.

 

[Soyeong]

There are some passages which emphasise that you only need to accept christ to go to heaven, whereas others emphasise that works are needed also to go to heaven.

I have heard that once you accept christ, he will work in you so that you perform the works needed to go to heaven. So technically both but accepting christ alone is what causes the works to happen.

However, there are people that accept christ but then end up falling off the path, some even dying before they stop backsliding and havent done any works.

What are your thoughts on this matter?

Indeed, there are many verses that emphasize both accepting Christ and doing works as the way to heaven, so clearly God's instructions to do good works are the same as His instructions for how to accept Christ. In other words, Jesus is God's word made flesh, so the way to accept him is by us also embodying God's word by following his example through faith. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not saved as the result of having done those works and doing those works is not the result of having been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to do those works is itself the content of His gift of saving us from not doing those works.

 

[Jasper10]

The ten commandments were given for the sole purpose of confirming the standard that God requires and the fact that nobody can keep them perfectly hence the need for Jesus to keep them perfectly on an individuals behalf. Just because we cannot keep them perfectly doesn't mean we shouldn't try to keep them perfectly.

We don't carry out works to try and justify that we are acceptable to God because we are not and never will be. If we are performing our works for that reason then we have completely missed the message of the gospel. We carry out works because we are grateful to God who has kept them perfectly on our behalf. God knows the heart of man so he knows those who have genuinely accepted the gospel message and who do good works because they are genuinely grateful to God for what he has done for them.

There will be those who are not genuine but will still claim that they know Jesus but he will say that he never knew them, after all, even the devil believes in God.

Merely belief or non belief on there own are of no use to anyone.. Never were. Never will be.

 

[Soyeong]

The ten commandments were given for the sole purpose of confirming the standard that God requires and the fact that nobody can keep them perfectly hence the need for Jesus to keep them perfectly on an individuals behalf. Just because we cannot keep them perfectly doesn't mean we shouldn't try to keep them perfectly.

We don't carry out works to try and justify that we are acceptable to God because we are not and never will be. If we are performing our works for that reason then we have completely missed the message of the gospel. We carry out works because we are grateful to God who has kept them perfectly on our behalf. God knows the heart of man so he knows those who have genuinely accepted the gospel message and who do good works because they are genuinely grateful to God for what he has done for them.

There will be those who are not genuine but will still claim that they know Jesus but he will say that he never knew them, after all, even the devil believes in God.

Merely belief or non belief on there own are of no use to anyone.. Never were. Never will be.

In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So obedience to all that God commanded, not just the Ten Commandments, was printed as a possibility and as a choice, not as the need for perfect obedience. Furthermore, Jesus did not keep the Mosaic Law perfectly on our behalf, but rather he did that so that we would have an example to follow, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). Even if someone managed to have perfect obedience to the Mosaic Law, then they still would not earn their justification as a wage (Romans 4:1-5), so the reasons that we can't earn our justification as a wage by obeying it is not because we fall short of perfect obedience to it, but because it was never given as a means of earning our justification - that was never the goal of the law, which is why there are many verses that speak against that fundamental misunderstanding of its goal. Yet, there are also many verses like Romans 2:13 that say that only doers of the Mosaic Law will be justified, so clearly there must be reasons that our justification requires us to choose to be doers of the law other than for the goal of earning it as a wage, such as faith insofar as Roman 3:31 says that our faith does not abolish our need to obey the Mosaic Law, but rather our faith upholds it.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. In 1 John 24, those who say that they know Jesus, but don't obey his commands are liars, in 1 John 3:4-6, those who continue to practice sin in transgression of the Mosaic Law have never seen nor known him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the Mosaic Law, which is eternal life (John 17:3), which is also why he said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments (Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28).

 

[Jasper10]

You need to keep the ten commandments perfectly or you will not enter God's presence. As you can't, you have had it my friend. Take Jesus Christ out of the church and all you have the church of satan.

We are talking about perfection and imperfection here and a holy God. Nearly perfection Christianity is no use. Get rid.

I don't do nearly perfection Christianity. You can keep that. It never saved anyone and never will. You cannot save yourself. Only God can do that for you.

You truly have absolutely no understanding of John 10:1 have you.

 

[Soyeong]

You need to keep the ten commandments perfectly or you will not enter God's presence. As you can't, you have had it my friend. Take Jesus Christ out of the church and all you have the church of satan.

We are talking about perfection and imperfection here and a holy God. Nearly perfection Christianity is no use. Get rid.

I don't do nearly perfection Christianity. You can keep that. It never saved anyone and never will. You cannot save yourself. Only God can do that for you.

You truly have absolutely no understanding of John 10:1 have you.

Nowhere does the Bible say that you need to keep the Ten Commandments perfectly or you will not enter God's presence, but rather again it says that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey. God's law was given with instructions for what to do when the people sinned, so perfect obedience was never a requirement for us. Jesus is God's word made flesh, so obeying God's word is not taking him out of the church. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to rely on God is by obediently relying on His law, while to speak against relying on God's law is to speak against relying on God. Trying to save ourselves would not be relying anyone else, so it is contradictory to think that we are trying to save ourselves by relying on what God has instructed, and it is absurd to interpret John 10:1 as saying that those who rely on what God has instructed are trying to climb up some other way rather than entering through the gate.