Thoughts on faith or works based salvation?

[Soyeong]

I just have.Even the devil and his demons have faith in God.

James 2:19

At this point you are lying to me. You have consistently refused to quote where the Bible says that the sole purpose of the law was to prove that you cannot keep them perfectly.

 

[Jasper10]

At this point you are lying to me. You have consistently refused to quote where the Bible says that the sole purpose of the law was to prove that you cannot keep them perfectly.

I am not lying to you at all.

You can’t keep the laws perfecty.Nobody can.That was the purpose they were given.To prove to you and everyone else that you can’t.

Are you now claiming that you can keep the laws perfectly?

 

[Jasper10]

I am not lying to you at all.

You can’t keep the laws perfecty.Nobody can.That was the purpose they were given.To prove to you and everyone else that you can’t.

Are you now claiming that you can keep the laws perfectly?

So,don’t tell me, you are going to do some good works in the hope that that will be good enough to plug the gap.Yes?

Isaiah 64:6

 

[Jasper10]

Stop trying to do stuff in your own strength or you will never come to God.

If you are of the opinion that you don’t need him because you can do it all yourself then you will never come to God in the way that he has ordained.

You will never know the peace he offers.

 

[Jasper10]

The bible says that Jesus took the punishment for the sins of the whole world because it wasn’t able to keep the laws perfectly.1 John 2:2

Many will believe this and many won’t and try to enter Gods presence believing that their own efforts and good works will be good enough.

 

[splish- splash]

When we receive Christ our actions must also begin to correspond. Or shall I say works are evidence that Christ is alive in us..

The part where one receives Christ only for them to fall away, has everything to do with whether or not, they were chosen by God in the first place.

 

[Jasper10]

When we receive Christ our actions must also begin to correspond. Or shall I say works are evidence that Christ is alive in us..

The part where one receives Christ only for them to fall away, has everything to do with whether or not, they were chosen by God in the first place.

If you don’t believe that Christ died for all your sins because you can’t keep the laws perfectly and they need to be kept perfectly then you have missed the whole point of what the bible is saying.

Good works should be carried out due to the deep deep appreciation to God that he was prepared to die out of love for all your sins even though he was sinless.

You shouldn’t be doing good works to try and earn your place in heaven.That is utterly pointless as Isaiah stated.

Don’t you believe him?

 

[splish- splash]

Galatians 2.20

I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me. And the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Galatians 1v15

But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased

John 6v37-40

37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”...

 

[Jasper10]

Galatians 2.20

I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me. And the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Galatians 1v15

But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased

John 6v37-40

37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”...

But that was written by people who agreed with Isaiah,not by individuals who did not agree with Isaiah.Once again you are completely missing the point of what the bible is saying.

 

[Jasper10]

Don’t you think that the people who wrote these verses you quote would have heard what Isaiah said?

Of course they would and they believed it and had their eyes opened.

Don’t just cherry pick bible verses out of context believing that they necessarily apply to you when they might not.The Pharisees and Sadducees fell into that trap.

 

[splish- splash]

If you don’t believe that Christ died for all your sins because you can’t keep the laws perfectly and they need to be kept perfectly then you have missed the whole point of what the bible is saying.

Good works should be carried out due to the deep deep appreciation to God that he was prepared to die out of love for all your sins even though he was sinless.

You shouldn’t be doing good works to try and earn your place in heaven.That is utterly pointless as Isaiah stated.

Don’t you believe him?

I dont understand. Did you read at all what I wrote? Else why would you post that which you've posted there?

 

[Jasper10]

I dont understand. Did you read at all what I wrote? Else why would you post that which you've posted there?

I read what you wrote.Why do you think that the bible quotes you made reference to apply to you?

They apply to people who agree with Isaiah.You don’t agree with Isaiah.

 

[ralliann]

There are some passages which emphasise that you only need to accept christ to go to heaven, whereas others emphasise that works are needed also to go to heaven.

I have heard that once you accept christ, he will work in you so that you perform the works needed to go to heaven. So technically both but accepting christ alone is what causes the works to happen.

However, there are people that accept christ but then end up falling off the path, some even dying before they stop backsliding and havent done any works.

What are your thoughts on this matter?

There is a difference between works of faith and works of the law. Abraham did not have the law of Moses, his were works of faith, not of law.

 

[MaxPower]

At this point you are lying to me. You have consistently refused to quote where the Bible says that the sole purpose of the law was to prove that you cannot keep them perfectly.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

The Problem is all have sinned, The penalty is death, it shows that all need a Savior

 

[MaxPower]

When we receive Christ our actions must also begin to correspond. Or shall I say works are evidence that Christ is alive in us..

The part where one receives Christ only for them to fall away, has everything to do with whether or not, they were chosen by God in the first place.

If you look in a Bible instead of a commentary you will find that Salvation is offered through Jesus shedding his blood for our sins, Salvation is not our works, Jesus said you must be born again, the evidence is Jesus is in them, New birth a new creation in Christ, that person knows others can only look for fruit, God so loved the world that he offers it to any one that believes, anyone that comes to Jesus in Faith God takes there faith and gives the gift of Righteousness, The gift of eternal life which is Christ in you

Then you are free to be thankful and show your love, But you must be born again is the evidence or you wouldnt be able to show the light and the love of christ to a dark and dying world because he wouldn't be in you and you would still be a child of the devil and no matter how many works you think you do wont have any bearing on your salvation

 

[Soyeong]

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

The Problem is all have sinned, The penalty is death, it shows that all need a Savior

In James 2:1-11, he was speaking to people who has already sinned by showing favoritism, so he was not telling them that they needed to have perfect obedience because that would have already been too late, and he was not trying to discourage them from keeping the law, but rather he was encouraging them to repent and to more consistent in their obedience to it. If we needed to have perfect obedience, then repentance would not change that we have already fallen short of perfect obedience, so repentance would have no value, but the fact that we can repent from the fact that we have already sinned means that we do not need to have perfect obedience.

If you look in a Bible instead of a commentary you will find that Salvation is offered through Jesus shedding his blood for our sins, Salvation is not our works, Jesus said you must be born again, the evidence is Jesus is in them, New birth a new creation in Christ, that person knows others can only look for fruit, God so loved the world that he offers it to any one that believes, anyone that comes to Jesus in Faith God takes there faith and gives the gift of Righteousness, The gift of eternal life which is Christ in you

Then you are free to be thankful and show your love, But you must be born again is the evidence or you wouldnt be able to show the light and the love of christ to a dark and dying world because he wouldn't be in you and you would still be a child of the devil and no matter how many works you think you do wont have any bearing on your salvation

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we our salvation is not the result of our obedience to it, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. Jesus is God's word made flesh, so obeying God's word is the way to have faith in him, which is why there are many verses that say that the way to have the gift of eternal life is by believing in him/by obeying God's commandments, and why those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to His law are not born again as children of God (1 John 3:4-10).

 

[Soyeong]

There is a difference between works of faith and works of the law. Abraham did not have the law of Moses, his were works of faith, not of law.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, which is in accordance with him being sent as the fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26), and which is the Gospel that was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), which he spread to those living in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5). In Genesis 18:19, Genesis 26:4-5, and Deuteronomy 30:16, the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children to do that, and because he did that, so Abraham did have the Law of Moses, which is the law of faith.

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, Galatians 3:1-2, Paul denied that works of the law is part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore the phrase "works of the law" does not refer to anything that God has commanded. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works, while he said in Romans 3:31 that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-11.

 

[Soyeong]

I am not lying to you at all.

You can’t keep the laws perfecty.Nobody can.That was the purpose they were given.To prove to you and everyone else that you can’t.

Are you now claiming that you can keep the laws perfectly?

While I agree that we can't keep God's law perfectly, nowhere does the Bible say that the only purpose of the law is to prove that we can't obey it perfectly. You have refused to quote where the Bible says that that is the only purpose of the law or even where it says that it is one of its purposes, yet you claim that you have done that, which is lying to me. I did not claim that I can keep it perfectly.

So,don’t tell me, you are going to do some good works in the hope that that will be good enough to plug the gap.Yes?

Isaiah 64:6

I also did not claim that the purpose of doing good works is to plug the gap. In Isaiah 64:6, it is not God speaking, but rather it is the people complaining about how they thought that God viewed their works because He was not coming down and making His presence known. The reality is that God does not command dirty rags, but rather the righteous deeds of the saints are like fine white linen (Revelation 19:8).

Stop trying to do stuff in your own strength or you will never come to God.

If you are of the opinion that you don’t need him because you can do it all yourself then you will never come to God in the way that he has ordained.

You will never know the peace he offers.

Relying on our own strength is not relying on anyone else, so relying on what God instructed is not relying on our own strength, but rather it is the way to rely on God. The way to come to God is not by refusing to follow His instructions for how to come to Him. I have not claimed that we don't need God because I can do it all myself. In Matthew 11:28-30 and Jeremiah 6:16-19, God's law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls, so that is the way to know the peace that He offers.

The bible says that Jesus took the punishment for the sins of the whole world because it wasn’t able to keep the laws perfectly.1 John 2:2

Many will believe this and many won’t and try to enter Gods presence believing that their own efforts and good works will be good enough.

While the Bible says that Jesus gave himself to pay the penalty for our sins, it does not say that the only purpose of the law is to prove that we can't keep it perfectly. Doing good works has nothing to do with trying to be good enough.

 

[MaxPower]

In James 2:1-11, he was speaking to people who has already sinned by showing favoritism, so he was not telling them that they needed to have perfect obedience because that would have already been too late, and he was not trying to discourage them from keeping the law, but rather he was encouraging them to repent and to more consistent in their obedience to it. If we needed to have perfect obedience, then repentance would not change that we have already fallen short of perfect obedience, so repentance would have no value, but the fact that we can repent from the fact that we have already sinned means that we do not need to have perfect obedience.



Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we our salvation is not the result of our obedience to it, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. Jesus is God's word made flesh, so obeying God's word is the way to have faith in him, which is why there are many verses that say that the way to have the gift of eternal life is by believing in him/by obeying God's commandments, and why those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to His law are not born again as children of God (1 John 3:4-10).

Repent from the fact that we have already sinned? you just made that up.....Look

All have sinned! Jesus came to save sinners. Only the Blood of Jesus can take away sin

What meaning are you applying to repentance that saves, Its nothing to do with trying to stop sinning or anything to do with obedience to the Law

I could say to you anything not of faith is sin then you are in quite a bit of trouble, But Jesus came to take away our sins, The new covenant in his blood, the blood atonement, Turns sinners into saints, Transforms them from the kingdom of darkness to light, Gives The gift of Righteousness, the gift of eternal life = Christ in you

None of that is achieved through odediance to the law its through faith in Jesus,Christians are not under the law and are dead to the law because is the law that shows sin and Jesus has paid for their sin and they are under grace, the law cant define them as sinners when they are dead to the law

But when someone is born again and has God working through them they can show Gods love to the world, Love is the fulfillment of the Law

Remember the weightier matters of the law judgment, mercy, and faith, it also says without faith it is impossible to please God

 

[pasifika]

In James 2:1-11, he was speaking to people who has already sinned by showing favoritism, so he was not telling them that they needed to have perfect obedience because that would have already been too late, and he was not trying to discourage them from keeping the law, but rather he was encouraging them to repent and to more consistent in their obedience to it. If we needed to have perfect obedience, then repentance would not change that we have already fallen short of perfect obedience, so repentance would have no value, but the fact that we can repent from the fact that we have already sinned means that we do not need to have perfect obedience.



Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we our salvation is not the result of our obedience to it, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. Jesus is God's word made flesh, so obeying God's word is the way to have faith in him, which is why there are many verses that say that the way to have the gift of eternal life is by believing in him/by obeying God's commandments, and why those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to His law are not born again as children of God (1 John 3:4-10).

Perfect obedience is never too late for sinners who turn to Christ. That's the main reason why Christ died so we die to Sin and live to God.