There's something I want to do...

[Rick Otto]

but there's only two examples of people doing it in the bible, and they're heathens & somebody dies both times.
But thousands of people do it every day in these times without any apparent consequence.
And if my motivation is to praise Jesus by doing it, why not?

It is so common today that to not do it seems abnormal. And if I say what it is, all the common prejudices immediately cascade into everyone's frontal lobes and clarity is lost.

So everybody does it, but no apostles ever did or ever instructed us to or ever mentioned it in a positive light, but I don't want to be ostracized for being wierd anymore than I already am, so I think I should trust Jesus knows my heart & just go ahead & do it with everyone else.
Should I?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

So, I get the part that you are conflicted and searching your soul for an answer.

Problems lie in most things that 'I wan't to do'. The 'I' in the front gives away that it is for me.

You have stated that you're motivated to glorify God in this way! Wonderful!

What is it though? Singing? or doing drugs?

If it's singing... I would say, sing your heart out! Otherwise.... I'm not sure I have enough information to be of any help.

Forgive me...

 

[Rick Otto]

So, I get the part that you are conflicted and searching your soul for an answer.

Problems lie in most things that 'I wan't to do'. The 'I' in the front gives away that it is for me.

You have stated that you're motivated to glorify God in this way! Wonderful!

What is it though? Singing? or doing drugs?

If it's singing... I would say, sing your heart out! Otherwise.... I'm not sure I have enough information to be of any help.

Forgive me...

Rather than search my soul, I'm searching scripture. My soul is just not as trustworthy.
I don't remember doing drugs other than alcohol being mentioned just twice in scripture, but that would be a good guess if only because the "it makes me feel good" factor in the motivation.

That kind of forces me to consider how much of that factors into my motivation to glorify God in the first place, doesn't it?

At any rate, no that ain't it, although singing & popular beverages are part of the tradition.
Kinda hard to have an identity without referring to myself as "I".
The problem of conscience is universal (idealy), so I use "I" in vain hope of soliticing empathy.

 

[holyrokker]

One question for consideration when contemplating any action that isn't clearly "good" or "bad":

What are the possible positive and negative effects on other people?

What prompts me to ask this question is the command, "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Paul said, "All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify."

 

[Forge3]

Rick this is a spiritual retreat weekend. A calling to enter the depths of my heart. There I am and God is. I do some things that I am questioning now. And considering change as well. The main thing is relationship with God. Sift things in that filter. I suppose I do things to fit in often without even knowing or thinking about it. Intimacy with God is the path. That is where our true self is cradled. Loving others, self in the right way are as loving God. Discern in the heart.

 

[spitoutthekoolaid]

Rather than search my soul, I'm searching scripture. My soul is just not as trustworthy.

but there's only two examples of people doing it in the bible, and they're heathens & somebody dies both times.
But thousands of people do it every day in these times without any apparent consequence.

And if I say what it is, all the common prejudices immediately cascade into everyone's frontal lobes and clarity is lost.

You are having an Eden moment.

"Do this and die, or not ? It looks okay. But what to do ?"

In looking to others, you're trying to find a justification through their own choices. Even in looking to scriptural "others" ... you're still doing that. "She gave me the fruit, the one you gave to help me, she gave it to me ..."

Just because the people of God are given to help us, doesn't mean we do what they do.

In trying to find scriptures, you're playing the "law" game. You'll need an attorney, and a solid case. If you break the law, at any point, or a clause is later found ... you could be found guilty, convicted, the accuser wins his case, you lose yours. And if you choose the testimony of someone else in scripture (say, the Witch of Endor) ... you've already shown their end result. Even if you chose David, or Paul for example ... even Paul gave examples of when to eat what you are free to eat, and when not too.

And not trusting your own soul ... of course. "It looks yummy, is good for gaining wisdom. I have a good argument. Let's eat ?"

So it looks to me like you are acting outside of *faith*. You don't know what to believe, or what you have FAITH for.

But you do know what your heart wants. So stand before God, naked, without shame. Show God precisely what you want. "My heart is craving these things,"

Be naked, without shame. God knows scriptures, knows the rationalizations, knows His own Word ...

What you need is a *revelation*. Not a good argument, not logic, not rule 1.34402 on your side ... you need something spiritual to take this naked aspect of your heart and clothe it from God. Don't assume you know what it is, that's not the Spirit. The Spirit is obvious, and will reveal to you the revelation of what to do, how to do it, by faith. So concerning this thing ... have faith, in God, and let yourself be lead freely in your nakedness. Don't make a judgement one way or another, let God give Life.

It's hard to resist not considering the snake's logic, your own logic, the logic of your partners, being ashamed of your nakedness and wanting to design fig leaves to fix it ... wait for the Spirit perhaps ...

 

[OpenDoor]

I respect that you do not what to go into detail, but because of that I will have to err on the side of caution and say don't do it.

Keep in mind this is based on the lack of detail provided.

 

[Defensor Christi]

I love riddles...give us another hint...

1) happens twice
2) heathens participate
3) someone dies
4) singing and drinking is a part of it?
5) quite popular in today's day....

...hmmmmmm

 

[Cloudwatcher]

...kinda sounds like slam-dancing...?

 

[Defensor Christi]

...kinda sounds like slam-dancing...?

Do people die slam dancing??

 

[seeingeyes]

Hmm...is it tithing less than you said you would? No...that doesn't sound like much fun...

Oh! Does it have something to do with contacting spirits?

You can PM me if I won the prize.

It can be hard to know sometimes if we are being 'convicted' to not do something, or if we are guilting ourselves with useless legalism. And searching for specific Biblical examples often doesn't help.

But ask yourself this: How does this activity line up with what I know about God's nature?

You are His son, and He is your Father. So keep it in the family. Take it up with your Dad and tell Him the whole truth from your heart, and watch what happens next.

 

[Clare73]

You are having an Eden moment.

"Do this and die, or not ? It looks okay. But what to do ?"

In looking to others, you're trying to find a justification through their own choices. Even in looking to scriptural "others" ... you're still doing that. "She gave me the fruit, the one you gave to help me, she gave it to me ..."

Just because the people of God are given to help us, doesn't mean we do what they do.

In trying to find scriptures, you're playing the "law" game. You'll need an attorney, and a solid case. If you break the law, at any point, or a clause is later found ... you could be found guilty, convicted, the accuser wins his case, you lose yours. And if you choose the testimony of someone else in scripture (say, the Witch of Endor) ... you've already shown their end result. Even if you chose David, or Paul for example ... even Paul gave examples of when to eat what you are free to eat, and when not too.

And not trusting your own soul ... of course. "It looks yummy, is good for gaining wisdom. I have a good argument. Let's eat ?"

So it looks to me like you are acting outside of *faith*. You don't know what to believe, or what you have FAITH for.

At this point I would remind you of what the word of God states:

"everything that does not come from faith is sin." (Ro 14:23)

Why would that be?

Because not knowing that it is not sin, means we are willing to do it if it is sin.

That makes it sin to us.

In the faith,
Clare

 

[Rick Otto]

One question for consideration when contemplating any action that isn't clearly "good" or "bad":

What are the possible positive and negative effects on other people?

What prompts me to ask this question is the command, "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Paul said, "All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify."

Excellent advice.
No negative effects are obvious, but checking scripture, the deed looks dubious. But everybody does it and not doing it seems socialy awkward, so...

 

[Rick Otto]

Rick this is a spiritual retreat weekend. A calling to enter the depths of my heart. There I am and God is. I do some things that I am questioning now. And considering change as well. The main thing is relationship with God. Sift things in that filter. I suppose I do things to fit in often without even knowing or thinking about it. Intimacy with God is the path. That is where our true self is cradled. Loving others, self in the right way are as loving God. Discern in the heart.

Right. The right way... not always easy to see. Is relationship with God going to be at the expense of social, even family relationships?

 

[Rick Otto]

You are having an Eden moment.

"Do this and die, or not ? It looks okay. But what to do ?"

In looking to others, you're trying to find a justification through their own choices. Even in looking to scriptural "others" ... you're still doing that. "She gave me the fruit, the one you gave to help me, she gave it to me ..."

Just because the people of God are given to help us, doesn't mean we do what they do.

In trying to find scriptures, you're playing the "law" game. You'll need an attorney, and a solid case. If you break the law, at any point, or a clause is later found ... you could be found guilty, convicted, the accuser wins his case, you lose yours. And if you choose the testimony of someone else in scripture (say, the Witch of Endor) ... you've already shown their end result. Even if you chose David, or Paul for example ... even Paul gave examples of when to eat what you are free to eat, and when not too.

And not trusting your own soul ... of course. "It looks yummy, is good for gaining wisdom. I have a good argument. Let's eat ?"

So it looks to me like you are acting outside of *faith*. You don't know what to believe, or what you have FAITH for.

But you do know what your heart wants. So stand before God, naked, without shame. Show God precisely what you want. "My heart is craving these things,"

Be naked, without shame. God knows scriptures, knows the rationalizations, knows His own Word ...

What you need is a *revelation*. Not a good argument, not logic, not rule 1.34402 on your side ... you need something spiritual to take this naked aspect of your heart and clothe it from God. Don't assume you know what it is, that's not the Spirit. The Spirit is obvious, and will reveal to you the revelation of what to do, how to do it, by faith. So concerning this thing ... have faith, in God, and let yourself be lead freely in your nakedness. Don't make a judgement one way or another, let God give Life.

It's hard to resist not considering the snake's logic, your own logic, the logic of your partners, being ashamed of your nakedness and wanting to design fig leaves to fix it ... wait for the Spirit perhaps ...

That was great, except I'm not looking for legal technicalities that equal permission, rather I'm still undecided & looking for direction in scripture, but all there is there is two examples that are tainted by the heathens doing it & the destruction of human life they caused, not as a regular part of the activities, but closely associated with, & not completely independant of the event in question.

But yeah, I get the "Eden moment" perspective. That was great.

 

[seeingeyes]

Excellent advice.
No negative effects are obvious, but checking scripture, the deed looks dubious. But everybody does it and not doing it seems socialy awkward, so...

So... You're getting circumcised? Wait...no one died from that..

You're protesting the right of men to carry children. No... That was "the life of Brian"...

Your refusing to father your dead brother's children!

I hope it's not too serious an issue, Mr. Otto, because I'm having way too much fun. But I'll pray God's wisdom on you just as soon as I quit giggling.

God bless

 

[Rick Otto]

So... You're getting circumcised? Wait...no one died from that..

You're protesting the right of men to carry children. No... That was "the life of Brian"...

Your refusing to father your dead brother's children!

I hope it's not too serious an issue, Mr. Otto, because I'm having way too much fun. But I'll pray God's wisdom on you just as soon as I quit giggling.

God bless

No no,... giggle away. I'm realy happy for that in this contentious forum.
Humor is the best medicine. You made me giggle a little too.

 

[spitoutthekoolaid]

At this point I would remind you of what the word of God states:

"everything that does not come from faith is sin." (Ro 14:23)

Why would that be?

Because not knowing that it is not sin, means we are willing to do it if it is sin.
That makes it sin to us.

In the faith,
Clare

I actually was going to expound on that very point in my post, but erased it for brevity lol

That was great, except I'm not looking for legal technicalities that equal permission, rather I'm still undecided & looking for direction in scripture, but all there is there is two examples that are tainted by the heathens doing it & the destruction of human life they caused, not as a regular part of the activities, but closely associated with, & not completely independant of the event in question.

But yeah, I get the "Eden moment" perspective. That was great.

No worries ... I wasn't sure if you were searching scriptures for a "justified by loophole" thing or not lol ...

 

[Forge3]

Right. The right way... not always easy to see. Is relationship with God going to be at the expense of social, even family relationships?

If anything is in opposition to the Word than it needs to be weighed out accordingly. If truely following the Word leads to opposition and/or contention among people we are still called to march forward, even resting and leaning on Him along the way. It is our calling. Yours and mine and followers everywhere. I know this is not an easy thing to do. For instance I understand not only grace but also resistance to grace and change.

And it may well be not an easy thing to see as well. Over-active minds or being of many minds so to speak muddies the waters of our reflections. Life is wondrous and beautiful. Yet there are thorns among the roses. If I boldly choose to do things against the Word the thorns are in my conscience. If I resist the world, the flesh and the Devil the thorns are in: withstanding the cravings, the blows to the false ego or self, and what comes to surface in the desert experience so to speak. This is one way the work of the circumcision of the heart is done by God. Otherwise known as a crucible of the flesh.

In nature a fairly elegant way of seeing it is the caterpillar emerging winged from the Cacoon. Now God takes us where we are at. Not where we are not. And love is the starting and end point. And it is our litmus test for the Kingdom of Heaven. I recommend putting your conundrum on the table of the Lord and listening and discerning. I am not pushng you in any direction as I do not know the full content of what you are considering. Adding more fodder for thought

 

[Jipsah]

Do people die slam dancing??

They could. Especially if there's drankin' involved.