There is no Hell!

[Cris413]

The words "Let Us" are not in the original scripture, but were added the our bibles. And the oldest book of Matthew 28 did not have: Father, son and Holy Ghost. That is what Im complaining about. Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance...

Sounds pretty exhausting...

I'm certain the Holy Spirit is able to lead us into wisdom and understanding despite different translations...

I do use several translations and Strong's Concordance in my studies...

So...until the Holy Spirit testifies against Jesus being God...and God the Father as being God...and in essence testifies against Himself... (who is also the living presence of God in us)...

Still gonna have to go with the Trinity...or "Triunity" of God.

I've shared my belief in the Trinity...and further debate is not going to change my beliefs...

So..if the Holy Spirit leads me into a different understanding as I continue my walk with the Lord...then...and only then... will my understanding be transformed...

...certainly not by a few posts in an open online forum regarding things I have yet to see stand up to the full measure of Scripture....


Peace

 

[Tavita]

The words "Let Us" are not in the original scripture, but were added the our bibles. And the oldest book of Matthew 28 did not have: Father, son and Holy Ghost. That is what Im complaining about. Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance...

Which Exhaustive Concordance, Michael? All the concordances I have say 'let Us', and this verse taken from the ISA Hebrew Scripture Analyzer says this...

Genesis 1:26 " and-he-is-saying Elohim we-shall-make human in image-of us as likeness-of us and they-shall-sway... ."

Where are you getting your information from?

 

[GuardianShua]

Sounds pretty exhausting...

I'm certain the Holy Spirit is able to lead us into wisdom and understanding despite different translations...

I do use several translations and Strong's Concordance in my studies...

So...until the Holy Spirit testifies against Jesus being God...and God the Father as being God...and in essence testifies against Himself... (who is also the living presence of God in us)...

Still gonna have to go with the Trinity...or "Triunity" of God.

I've shared my belief in the Trinity...and further debate is not going to change my beliefs...

So..if the Holy Spirit leads me into a different understanding as I continue my walk with the Lord...then...and only then... will my understanding be transformed...

...certainly not by a few posts in an open online forum regarding things I have yet to see stand up to the full measure of Scripture....


Peace

#1. Acts 4:12. "There is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

#2. Acts 10:48. "So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."

#3. Acts 19:5. "They were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus."

#4. Romans 6:3. "All of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus."

For hundreds of years after Pentecost people were baptised into the name of Christ only.

 

[Nadiine]

Which Exhaustive Concordance, Michael? All the concordances I have say 'let Us', and this verse taken from the ISA Hebrew Scripture Analyzer says this...

Genesis 1:26 " and-he-is-saying Elohim we-shall-make human in image-of us as likeness-of us and they-shall-sway... ."

Where are you getting your information from?

I should of asked that question - I'd be interested in hearing his reply.

 

[GuardianShua]

Which Exhaustive Concordance, Michael? All the concordances I have say 'let Us', and this verse taken from the ISA Hebrew Scripture Analyzer says this...

Genesis 1:26 " and-he-is-saying Elohim we-shall-make human in image-of us as likeness-of us and they-shall-sway... ."

Where are you getting your information from?

On page xiii under Gen 1:26. Also under "let" page 653. It shows that it is AIT. Assisted In Translation.

 

[Cris413]

Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger:
He makes this confession as to the origin of the chief Trinity text
of Matthew 28:19. "The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian)
profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and
third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far
as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came
from the city of Rome."

I've already posted some of the Scripture I believe supports the Trinity...and it has been rejected...

Never the less...I consider there may be just a little too much focus on Catholicism as support for a reason to reject the Trinity...we can't blame EVERYTHING on the RCC...or can we??? Anyway...

I am not Catholic. And in all honesty...I really don't read too much regarding Catholicism and all the historical/political issues stemming from the RCC....presently or in the history of the RCC...

I've been to a Catholic church maybe 3 times in my life...once as a child (which scared the daylights out of me) a couple times for friends weddings....now...they do have quite a beautiful...although very drawn out...wedding ceremony.

My beliefs did not develope by ANY "church" doctrine and I really don't understand the whole "political" aspect of any church history...frankly...I see no spiritual need to...

Prayerful study of Scripture and an open heart and mind to the leading of the Holy Spirit is how I believe we grow and mature. According to His good will and pleasure and in the measure according to God's perfect purpose...

 

[Tavita]

On page xiii under Gen 1:26. Also under "let" page 653. It shows that it is AIT. Assisted In Translation.

That's pretty hard to check out if you don't have a hard copy. It's not online, but I would like to point out for everyone, that in e-sword and the NASB+ & the KJV+ they have not given the Strong's for 'Let Us'...


KJV
Gen 1:26 And God430 said,559 Let us make6213 (refers to 'make') man120 in our image,6754 after our likeness:1823 and let them have dominion7287 over the fish1710 of the sea,3220 and over the fowl5775 of the air,8064 and over the cattle,929 and over all3605 the earth,776 and over every3605 creeping thing7431 that creepeth7430 upon5921 the earth.776

There is no Strong's offered for Let Us... for something sooo important I think it a little strange.

 

[GuardianShua]

This is the transliteral for Gen 1:26. "And said Elohiym making man (Adam) in our image..."

 

[Tavita]

I've already posted some of the Scripture I believe supports the Trinity...and it has been rejected...

Never the less...I consider there may be just a little too much focus on Catholicism as support for a reason to reject the Trinity...we can't blame EVERYTHING on the RCC...or can we??? Anyway...

I am not Catholic. And in all honesty...I really don't read too much regarding Catholicism and all the historical/political issues stemming from the RCC....presently or in the history of the RCC...

I've been to a Catholic church maybe 3 times in my life...once as a child (which scared the daylights out of me) a couple times for friends weddings....now...they do have quite a beautiful...although very drawn out...wedding ceremony.

My beliefs did not develope by ANY "church" doctrine and I really don't understand the whole "political" aspect of any church history...frankly...I see no spiritual need to...

Prayerful study of Scripture and an open heart and mind to the leading of the Holy Spirit is how I believe we grow and mature. According to His good will and pleasure and in the measure according to God's perfect purpose...

The problem is that in the Reformation it was mostly the doctrine of faith only that saves, and not works, that was dealt with. All the other doctrines of the RCC, were still brought along into our denominations. It's like the present day protestant denominations are the 'daughter's' of the RCC. It's really hard to just trust everything without searching it out.

 

[Tavita]

This is the transliteral for Gen 1:26. "And said Elohiym making man (Adam) in our image..."

It's still saying 'in our image'... who's image? Who is the 'our'?

Elohim is the plural of El.

 

[GuardianShua]

It's still saying 'in our image'... who's image? Who is the 'our'?

Elohim is the plural of El.

The words "Let us" implies a Trinity, when actually they are not there. The name Elohiym means: God of the living. The word "living" makes it plural.

 

[sentipente]

Actually, "let us" only implies a plurality.

 

[Cris413]

#1. Acts 4:12. "There is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

#2. Acts 10:48. "So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."

#3. Acts 19:5. "They were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus."

#4. Romans 6:3. "All of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus."

For hundreds of years after Pentecost people were baptised into the name of Christ only.

I would have to suggest...since Scripture does not conflict with Scripture that this is not in conflict with the verses in Matthew...and does not refute the Trinity...but simply the way people are baptised...

Baptism of the Holy Spirit...as our seal and guarantee...now there is a baptism!

My understanding is that the Holy Spirit was around waaaay before Pentecost as well... "In the beginning"

Genesis 1:1 & 2

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The sacrifice and resurrection of Christ Jesus...changed a lot of things...but in no way lessened the message of the the Trinity...

Now...God is personal...the ability to receive the Holy Spirit because of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ we have the Comforter...The Spirit of Truth...residing in us..and us in Him...

The Gospel of John...is there anything that more beautifully describes the deity of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ...and the absolute personal relationship each one of us is able to have with Him by the power of His Holy Spirit..

 

[Cris413]

The problem is that in the Reformation it was mostly the doctrine of faith only that saves, and not works, that was dealt with. All the other doctrines of the RCC, were still brought along into our denominations. It's like the present day protestant denominations are the 'daughter's' of the RCC. It's really hard to just trust everything without searching it out.

Right on Tavita...

Acts 17:11

11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

 

[GuardianShua]

Actually, "let us" only implies a plurality.

Thats true. But we all know what it implies.

 

[Tavita]

The words "Let us" implies a Trinity, when actually they are not there. The name Elohiym means: God of the living. The word "living" makes it plural.

From the Ancient Hebrew Centre..

[SIZE=+2]God (el and elo'ah)[/SIZE]

There are two Hebrew words commonly translated as God, el and elo'ah. When reading the Bible it is better to have an Ancient Hebrew perception of God rather than our modern western view. The word el was originally written with two pictographic letters, one being an ox head and the other a shepherd staff. The ox represented strength and the staff of the shepherd represented authority. First, the Ancient Hebrews saw God as the strong one of authority. The shepherd staff was also understood as a staff on the shoulders, a yoke. Secondly, the Ancient Hebrews saw God as the ox in the yoke. When plowing a field two oxen were placed in a yoke, one was the older and more experienced and the other the younger and less experienced and the younger would learn from the older. The Hebrews saw God as the older experienced ox and they as the younger who learns from him. The plural form of elo'ah is elohiym and is often translated as God. While English plurals only identify quantity, as in more than one, the Hebrew plural can identify quantity as well as quality. Something that is of great size or stature can be written in the plural form and in this case, God, as the great strength and authority is frequently written in the plural form elohiym. The two letters in these Hebrew words are the ox head representing strength and the shepherd staff representing authority. Combined they mean "the strong authority" as well as "the ox with a staff" (a yoke is understood as a staff on the shoulders).


I know this doesn't address the 'let us' part, but when they are side by side it does seem to show that there is more than one. But they are one in Spirit.


There are also the seven spirits of God to consider...

Rev 3:1 "To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: 'I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

Rev 4:5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God;

Rev 5:6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.

 

[Cris413]

Thats true. But we all know what it implies.

If Trinitarism was the truth, then I would not complain.

as titled by MichaelTheeArchAngel

Why complain?

Let me share a truth that came to me recently....If you feel you're right...rest comfortably in your knowledge...no need to keep complaining...and arguing...

Let the Holy Spirit move and do His work...share you thoughts...and move on...trusting that God will give the increase and proper understanding...

As the Holy Spirit speaks to me...I'm beginning to understand...particulary in regard to participating in these forums....


Shocker among shockers...God does not need me to defend Him...He's perfectly capable of defending Himself...

...and in that Spirit of understanding...time for me to move on as well...

Peace

 

[GuardianShua]

From the Ancient Hebrew Centre..

[SIZE=+2]God (el and elo'ah)[/SIZE]

There are two Hebrew words commonly translated as God, el and elo'ah. When reading the Bible it is better to have an Ancient Hebrew perception of God rather than our modern western view. The word el was originally written with two pictographic letters, one being an ox head and the other a shepherd staff. The ox represented strength and the staff of the shepherd represented authority. First, the Ancient Hebrews saw God as the strong one of authority. The shepherd staff was also understood as a staff on the shoulders, a yoke. Secondly, the Ancient Hebrews saw God as the ox in the yoke. When plowing a field two oxen were placed in a yoke, one was the older and more experienced and the other the younger and less experienced and the younger would learn from the older. The Hebrews saw God as the older experienced ox and they as the younger who learns from him. The plural form of elo'ah is elohiym and is often translated as God. While English plurals only identify quantity, as in more than one, the Hebrew plural can identify quantity as well as quality. Something that is of great size or stature can be written in the plural form and in this case, God, as the great strength and authority is frequently written in the plural form elohiym. The two letters in these Hebrew words are the ox head representing strength and the shepherd staff representing authority. Combined they mean "the strong authority" as well as "the ox with a staff" (a yoke is understood as a staff on the shoulders).


I know this doesn't address the 'let us' part, but when they are side by side it does seem to show that there is more than one. But they are one in Spirit.


There are also the seven spirits of God to consider...

Rev 3:1 "To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: 'I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

Rev 4:5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God;

Rev 5:6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.

Eloah means: Gods Spirit, and it is a contraction. It also is not translated in our bibles as such. The four beast or creatures can also be translated as: The four beings. And the Seven Lamps are the Seven Spirits. See Rev 4:5.

 

[Ben12]

Ben...sounds like you may be delving into some sort of "literal" meaning in Scripture here....

God's Word does work literally at times; but no matter what it is spiritual. Besides you are quoting me not scripture. Might as well have three God's according to some triniees

 

[Cris413]

God's Word does work literally at times; but no matter what it is spiritual. Besides you are quoting me not scripture. Might as well have three God's according to some triniees

Ben...just gotta love your little nicknames...

"trinie"...

much better than "baby lonian" and much, much better than literaleternalhellist...

what will you come up with next...

hope you take this in the light hearted spirit intended...