There is no Hell!

[Tavita]

Carry on guys..

 

[GuardianShua]

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeinChrist
Great. A belief (a heretical one) of the Jehovah Witnesses is being promoted here.
I am not a Jehovah Witness, Im a Judaeo Christian.
In Christian history, it was the Pagan Christians who distroyed the Judaeo Christians. Those who were beheaded and burned at the stake, were those who would not keep the Sunday Sabbath and accept Trinitarism. Who changed Gods time and laws? Who uses Gods name title "Holy Father?" Who sits in a temple of God as a god? Who is truly a heretic? Who can on ized the bible?


Trinitarian and Hell doctrine is not an original teaching.


This is a picture of the statue Jupiter giving a Trinitarian sign.

The statue was renamed Peter. http://www.remnantofgod.org/peter-jupiter.jpg I repeat, This Pagan statue of Jupiter was renamed Peter. Jupiter is giving the Trinitarian sign.



The Hellenistic Pagan Jews hung Jesus on the cross as a heretic for saying that he was the Christ.


From about 167 BC the Hellenistic Jews were in control of Jerusalem. They were a secret society in control of the people during the life of Jesus.


A word study.


These quotes are from the Encyclopedia Americana,1961 edition.
"Words are frequently changed in an entirely arbitrary way, just for the sake of change, as is the case with taboo, and can't. The purpose is to deform the word in any possible way and render it unrecongnizable."
"Cant ,the secret language of a corporation or class of persons, such as criminals, hoboes, students, soldiers, railroaders, conspirators, and the like." This quote should have also included secret societies.
"Canopus. In Egyptian mythology, a water god, represented on vessels of a spherical shape." That is, the shape of a serpent.
"Cannibalism, Kan/i/bal/ism, a customary, socially approved practice, among certain barbarous peoples, of eating human flesh." "The fact that the older, learned term "anthropophagy" derives from the classic Greek anthropos (man) , and phagein (eat), suggests that from ancient times barbarous peoples were known to eat human flesh, or at least were accused of doing so."

Here is a list of proper names of some snakes.

Apostolepis: nick name, messenger snake.
Acanthophis: Adder's.
Canna, Pseudaspis: Mole snake.
Candidus, Bungarus.
Candoia: #1. Aspera, #2. Bibroni, #3. Carinata.
Caninus, Corallas: Emerald tree boa.
Cantherigerus, Alsophis.
Cantil, Agkistrodon bilineatus.
Canus, Tropidophis.
Cantori, Trimeresurus.
Canum, Gyalopion: Western hook-nosed.
It was the Vati can that can on ized the bible. The word "Vatican" is a compound word, but in what dictionary is that stated? Have you ever given any thought to the term "Social Engineering."

 

[GuardianShua]

Carry on guys..

I keep pushing the escape button on my computer key board, but I am still here. I think Im going to take a Well Im back and there are no comments or questions. I presume people think Im from another planet. Or else everyone has information overload.

 

[GuardianShua]

BUMP!

 

[FreeinChrist]

Thats what I have been told by the Mods. You may want to delete that before they see it.

I will stand by what I have written.

To deny the diety of Christ is to deny Christ - csll it heresy or apostasy, both fit. Christ is eternal- eternal before the cross and eternal after...to claim He is created is a heresy. You may not like it but it is so.


And what a sad state of affairs that there is no longer a safe haven for nondenom Christians...

 

[GuardianShua]

I will stand by what I have written.

To deny the diety of Christ is to deny Christ - csll it heresy or apostasy, both fit. Christ is eternal- eternal before the cross and eternal after...to claim He is created is a heresy. You may not like it but it is so.


And what a sad state of affairs that there is no longer a safe haven for nondenom Christians...

Im sure that you believe that it is heresy. And I believe that you think what your saying is true. I have never said that Jesus is not immortal. Since trinitarism and hell was not the original message taught by the disciples, how is it that Im a heretic? I am a Judaeo Christian, and as for me, it is a terrible sin to provert the word of God. And that is what Im complaining about. It was secret societies that have proverted the word of God. And it is the word of God that I am defending against Paganism. Have you been so busy being on the defencesive that you have paid no attention to my post?

 

[GuardianShua]

The muddy water is Paganism.


The pure water of Judaic Christianity is devoid of Paganism. And that is what defines a true Judaeo Christian.

 

[GuardianShua]

6 I have listened attentively,
but they do not say what is right.
No one repents of his wickedness,
saying, "What have I done?"
Each pursues his own course
like a horse charging into battle.

7 Even the stork in the sky
knows her appointed seasons,
and the dove, the swift and the thrush
observe the time of their migration.
But my people do not know
the requirements of the LORD.

8 " 'How can you say, "We are wise,
for we have the law of the LORD,"
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?

9 The wise will be put to shame;
they will be dismayed and trapped.
Since they have rejected the word of the LORD,
what kind of wisdom do they have?

10 Therefore I will give their wives to other men
and their fields to new owners.
From the least to the greatest,
all are greedy for gain;
prophets and priests alike,
all practice deceit.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Im sure that you believe that it is heresy. And I believe that you think what your saying is true. I have never said that Jesus is not immortal. Since trinitarism and hell was not the original message taught by the disciples, how is it that Im a heretic? I am a Judaeo Christian, and as for me, it is a terrible sin to provert the word of God. And that is what Im complaining about. It was secret societies that have proverted the word of God. And it is the word of God that I am defending against Paganism. Have you been so busy being on the defencesive that you have paid no attention to my post?

You aren't defending against paganism but promoting it. You wrote that Jesus (Yahshua) is a "created being" - that denies His deification (vs. immortality). He is not a created Being - He is God the Son.

No secret societies have "perverted the word of God" except those that deny the Trinity.

 

[GuardianShua]

You aren't defending against paganism but promoting it. You wrote that Jesus (Yahshua) is a "created being" - that denies His deification (vs. immortality). He is not a created Being - He is God the Son.

No secret societies have "perverted the word of God" except those that deny the Trinity.

I am able to provide you with a multitude of scripture that says other wise. If trinitarism was indeed a biblical truth, then there would be no contradiction in scripture. Think about that.

 

[FreeinChrist]

You could post scripture our of context if you wish.

Hopefully, those who are His will know the truth and beleive:
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Jehovah Witnesses - who believe Jesus is a created being - have to change the meanng of the above verses , and in fact, altered them literally in their translation of the scriptures.

 

[FreeinChrist]

BTW this is an interesting site:
http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/trinityandpaganism.htm

note that those who oppose the so- called pagain beleivf in the Trinity are JW, or Oneness or Christadelphians

I pray for those who read here that they are not mislead by your writings.

 

[GuardianShua]

BTW this is an interesting site:
http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/trinityandpaganism.htm

note that those who oppose the so- called pagain beleivf in the Trinity are JW, or Oneness or Christadelphians

I pray for those who read here that they are not mislead by your writings.

Im talking about the pure word of God and you are talking about mans traditions. If I said to you that God's names were replaced in our bibles with words like him, lord, and God, would you be able to look it up in a {Exhaustive Concordance.} This is my complaint, everyone is talking to me about mans traditions, and I am talking about the pure word of God. How are you going to see what Im talking about, unless you have an (Exaustive Concordance.) Do you have an Exaustive Concordance? I have both, the old K.J.V. and the N.I.V. (Exaustive Concordances.) It's a issue of translation vs interpretation. note that those who oppose the so- called pagain beleivf in the Trinity are JW, or Oneness or Christadelphians.That is not true, there are many more. In Christian history, it was the Pagan Christians who distroyed the Judaeo Christians. Those who were beheaded and burned at the stake, were those who would not keep the Sunday Sabbath and accept Trinitarism. Who changed Gods time and laws? Who uses Gods name title "Holy Father?" Who sits in a temple of God as a god? Who is truly a heretic? Who can on ized the bible?


Trinitarian and Hell doctrine is not an original teaching.


This is a picture of the statue Jupiter giving a Trinitarian sign.


The statue was renamed Peter. http://www.remnantofgod.org/peter-jupiter.jpg I repeat, This Pagan statue of Jupiter was renamed Peter. Jupiter is giving the Trinitarian sign.



The Hellenistic Pagan Jews hung Jesus on the cross as a heretic.


From about 167 BC the Hellenistic Jews were in control of Jerusalem. They were a secret society in control of the people during the life of Jesus.


A word study.


These quotes are from the Encyclopedia Americana,1961 edition.
"Words are frequently changed in an entirely arbitrary way, just for the sake of change, as is the case with taboo, and cant. The purpose is to deform the word in any possible way and render it unrecongnizable."
"Cant ,the secret language of a corporation or class of persons, such as criminals, hoboes, students, soldiers, railroaders, conspirators, and the like." This quote should have also included secret societies.
"Canopus. In Egyptian mythology, a water god, represented on vessels of a spherical shape." That is, the shape of a serpent.
"Cannibalism, Kan/i/bal/ism, a customary, socially approved practice, among certain barbarous peoples, of eating human flesh." "The fact that the older, learned term "anthropophagy" derives from the classic Greek anthropos (man) , and phagein (eat), suggests that from ancient times barbarous peoples were known to eat human flesh, or at least were accused of doing so."

Here is a list of proper names of some snakes.

Apostolepis: nick name, messenger snake.
Acanthophis: Adder's.
Canna, Pseudaspis: Mole snake.
Candidus, Bungarus.
Candoia: #1. Aspera, #2. Bibroni, #3. Carinata.
Caninus, Corallas: Emerald tree boa.
Cantherigerus, Alsophis.
Cantil, Agkistrodon bilineatus.
Canus, Tropidophis.
Cantori, Trimeresurus.
Canum, Gyalopion: Western hook-nosed.
It was the Vati can that can on ized the bible. The word "Vatican" is a compound word, but in what dictionary is that stated? Have you ever given any thought to the term "Social Engineering."

 

[FreeinChrist]

Im talking about the pure word of God and you are talking about mans traditions. If I said to you that God's names were replaced in our bibles with words like him, lord, and God, would you be able to look it up in a {Exhaustive Concordance.} This is my complaint, everyone is talking to me about mans traditions, and I am talking about the pure word of God. How are you going to see what Im talking about, unless you have an (Exaustive Concordance.) Do you have an Exaustive Concordance? I have both, the old K.J.V. and the N.I.V. (Exaustive Concordances.) It's a issue of translation vs interpretation. note that those who oppose the so- called pagain beleivf in the Trinity are JW, or Oneness or Christadelphians.That is not true, there are many more. In Christian history, it was the Pagan Christians who distroyed the Judaeo Christians. Those who were beheaded and burned at the stake, were those who would not keep the Sunday Sabbath and accept Trinitarism. Who changed Gods time and laws? Who uses Gods name title "Holy Father?" Who sits in a temple of God as a god? Who is truly a heretic? Who can on ized the bible?


Trinitarian and Hell doctrine is not an original teaching.


This is a picture of the statue Jupiter giving a Trinitarian sign.


The statue was renamed Peter. http://www.remnantofgod.org/peter-jupiter.jpg I repeat, This Pagan statue of Jupiter was renamed Peter. Jupiter is giving the Trinitarian sign.



The Hellenistic Pagan Jews hung Jesus on the cross as a heretic.


From about 167 BC the Hellenistic Jews were in control of Jerusalem. They were a secret society in control of the people during the life of Jesus.


A word study.


These quotes are from the Encyclopedia Americana,1961 edition.
"Words are frequently changed in an entirely arbitrary way, just for the sake of change, as is the case with taboo, and cant. The purpose is to deform the word in any possible way and render it unrecongnizable."
"Cant ,the secret language of a corporation or class of persons, such as criminals, hoboes, students, soldiers, railroaders, conspirators, and the like." This quote should have also included secret societies.
"Canopus. In Egyptian mythology, a water god, represented on vessels of a spherical shape." That is, the shape of a serpent.
"Cannibalism, Kan/i/bal/ism, a customary, socially approved practice, among certain barbarous peoples, of eating human flesh." "The fact that the older, learned term "anthropophagy" derives from the classic Greek anthropos (man) , and phagein (eat), suggests that from ancient times barbarous peoples were known to eat human flesh, or at least were accused of doing so."

Here is a list of proper names of some snakes.

Apostolepis: nick name, messenger snake.
Acanthophis: Adder's.
Canna, Pseudaspis: Mole snake.
Candidus, Bungarus.
Candoia: #1. Aspera, #2. Bibroni, #3. Carinata.
Caninus, Corallas: Emerald tree boa.
Cantherigerus, Alsophis.
Cantil, Agkistrodon bilineatus.
Canus, Tropidophis.
Cantori, Trimeresurus.
Canum, Gyalopion: Western hook-nosed.
It was the Vati can that can on ized the bible. The word "Vatican" is a compound word, but in what dictionary is that stated? Have you ever given any thought to the term "Social Engineering."

Yes, there is a hell and it is orginal teaching:


Jesus:
Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Peter:
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

But this site explains it well: http://www.carm.org/doctrine/hell.htm

 

[Nadiine]

Yes, there is a hell and it is orginal teaching:

Jesus:
Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Peter:
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

But this site explains it well: http://www.carm.org/doctrine/hell.htm

I think if Jesus is there giving such a grave warning about what's to come in the future, we need to heed that. PERIOD.

People would just love it if there was no penalty for their sin or rejection of the blood of Christ (which is the ONLY THING that can literally remove the sin itself).

This allows people to
1) not feel God SAVED them from anything
2) allows people not to see sin for what it really is; how evil it all is
3) allows people to feel comfortable without salvation of Christ who died
4) makes Christ's sacrifice worthless if there's nothing we are saved FROM in the first place.

Those who deny hell basically make the cross a joke; what in the heck are we saved from at all?? Some claim ALL will be reconciled & saved (universalism) anyways, & others claim there's no hell at all -- we just stop existing; both scenarios make the cross a waste of God's time and pain.
His whole plan then makes no sense. Why bother with it all then?

I call this convienent doctrine to stifle people's fear of the afterlife, God, and/or apathy towards sin itself.

 

[Nadiine]

You aren't defending against paganism but promoting it. You wrote that Jesus (Yahshua) is a "created being" - that denies His deification (vs. immortality). He is not a created Being - He is God the Son.

No secret societies have "perverted the word of God" except those that deny the Trinity.

 

[Nadiine]

And while we're on the Trinity/Christ's deity, here's some scriptures of support - which proves this isn't taught later by "paganized" "christians", it was a concept from the beginning of scripture to the end.
All it takes is ONE TIME for the Bible to announce Christ as "GOD", and it becomes truth. If not, then throw the blasphemous thing out in the trash:

Jesus is not "creation", HE IS CREATOR OF ALL THINGS:​

Col. 1:16-17
16 For by him (Christ) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.​

John 1:1-4
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ​

2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. ​

and:​

John 3:31
" He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth He who comes from heaven is above all.​

John 8:23
And He [Jesus] was saying to them, "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world.
24"Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." ("He" is added by translators - Jesus called Himself "I AM" as a name).​

Following along w/ Jesus' ascention:​

John 3:13
" No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.​

John 6:62
"What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?​

Jesus is GOD, He came FROM ABOVE/from Heaven and first DESCENDED to earth. He ascended back to where He was before.​

Jesus is God, not Created; unless He managed to create Himself in Genesis 1?
The ONE GOD is Creator. - all 3 had a hand in it directly.
The Father credits JESUS (as "GOD" in vs. 8 "Ho Theos" in Grk) with creation:​

Heb 1:8-10
But of the Son He says,
"YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
9 "YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS;
THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU
WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS."
10And,
"YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH,
AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS; ​

Isaiah 42:5
Thus says God the LORD,Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread out the earth and its offspring,Who gives breath to the people on it
And spirit to those who walk in it,​

John 1:1-4
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ​

2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

[Jesus Eternal]
GOD says:

Isaiah 41:4
" Who has performed and accomplished it,Calling forth the generations from the beginning?' I, the LORD, am the first, and with the last I am He.'"


Isaiah 44:6
"Thus says the LORD [YHWY], the King of Israel
and his Redeemer, the LORD [YHWY] of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.

Notice God AND His Redeemer (CHRIST) are both called YHWY/Y'hovh, BOTH claim to be first and last at the same time, AND THAT BESIDES HIM THERE IS NO OTHER GOD.

Now notice Jesus Christ's claims:

Revelation 2:8
"And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: The first and the last,
who was dead, and has come to life, says this:


Revelation 22:13
"I am the Alpha and the Omega,
the first and the last,
the beginning and the end."​

[who Jesus has to be]​

Hebrews 1:6
And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,"
AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM."​

Revelation 5:
13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."
14 And the four living creatures kept saying, "Amen " And the elders fell down and worshiped.​

OR glorified
Isaiah 42:8
" I am the LORD, that is My name;
I will not give My glory to another,
Nor My praise to graven images.​

Ex. 20:
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.​

Psalm 146:3
Do not trust in princes,
In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.​

Psalm 49:7
No man can by any means redeem his brother​

Or give to God a ransom for him--
(For the redemption of their soul [is] precious, and it ceaseth for ever​

One who is PURELY HUMAN CANNOT PAY THE SIN DEBT/RANSOM FOR ANOTHER SOUL TO GOD.
WHO WAS JESUS IF HE'S A CREATED MAN AND NOT GOD INCARNATE???​

He said He will not SHARE HIS GLORY WITH ANOTHER. While Jesus is seen worshipped AND glorified with God in the NT. So either God is self refuting and the author of confusion in promoting worship to Jesus, OR JESUS IS EQUALLY GOD.​

If you claim Jesus is just "a god", then you worship ANOTHER god other than the One True God.... yet more problems to deal with. (if there's only one TRUE God, by default, all else are false)....​

[support of a Trinity]​

Most nontrinitarians don't even know what Trinitarians believe the Trinity is - we don't believe there are 3 Gods/gods - but ONE GOD made up of the 3; the 3 are ONE GOD.​

This concept/principle is easily found and exampled in the common family unit -
2 Parents and 2 children make up ONE FAMILY UNIT - all 4 make up the ONE family, all 4 have different positions of authority and duties within the family, all share ONE last name - yet all are 100% equal as human beings; noone within that family is "better" than another in their humanity.​

The ONE BODY OF CHRIST:​

1 Corinthians 12:12
For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:14
For the body is not one member, but many.​

Romans 12:4
For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function,
5 so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. ​

The Saints of God are ONE BODY of Christ - in Christ, yet comprised of millions of people; all with different functions and duties within the body (hands, feet, arms, eyes etc), YET FULLY EQUAL AS CHILDREN OF GOD.​

SO GOD CAN BE COMPRISED OF 3 AS THE ONE TRUE GOD - fully equal as God, yet having different authority, functions and duties within the Godhead [unit].​

God has given us examples of His own structure to understand Him by - they're found in "plural oneness":
A family Unit, the Body of Christ, a Supreme Court - several judges make the ONE Supreme Court. Each judge is necessary and important in this body - all have equal value as human beings and judges.​

[Links]
OT proof of Jesus' Deity -spelled out-
http://www.eadshome.com/DeityChrist.htm​

Is Jesus God in flesh?, CARM​

mistakes cultists make:
http://www.carm.org/doctrine/2natures.htm​

**Why accepting Jesus is God is mandatory to salvation:
http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5460​

Jesus is God
http://bibleprobe.com/jesus-is-God.htm​

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-r005.html​

http://www.bugman123.com/Bible/JesusIsGod.html​

http://www.seekgod.org/bible/jesusisgod.html
(scroll down to the New Test. Passages & Attributes area for the lists of attributes).​

These concepts are NOT pagan, they're in the Bible from cover to cover and they're displayed in our own World so we can grasp who He is.​

 

[drstevej]

The ultimate proof of Hell, is dying without Christ. (although no one can repeat this experiment twice. and I in no way recommend it once)

 

[Tavita]

Good post #657, Nadiine..

 

[FreeinChrist]

Amen, Nadine!!