There is no Hell!

[Nadiine]

I do not claim that every person has to immediately understand what the Trinity is (God's fullness of being) & grasp all the mystery of His essense. Quite frankly, if we can so easily grasp who God truly is, then we have one simple God that I'm not sure I even want.
If He so easily fits into my premade little box, then I'm not real interested in Him.

But I am saying that there's a huge difference in being ignorant & not fully understanding His full identity yet, AND DENYING THAT IDENTITY UPON BEING SHOWN SCRIPTURE PROOF.
The ignorant aren't denying God's identity; those who deny it are. That's the significance of the 2.

Jesus and Paul both taught this concept:

John 9:41
Jesus said to them,
" If you were blind, you would have no sin;
but since you say, ' We see,' your sin remains.

1 Timothy 1:13
even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor
Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief;
​

Ignorance before being shown is not the same as rejection and denial after being shown the doctrine.
Those who DO have faith in the true God, WON'T DENY HIS VERY BEING when shown. If they still don't understand it then they have an ignorance issue until it's fully revealed to them by God, but they will not be aggressively against it as if to refuse it.​

They remain NEUTRAL - not in opposition.​

I don't have a problem with that - it's the denial of God's being and personage that becomes the heresy.
Jesus said my sheep KNOW ME - how do you DENY who you KNOW??
And if you DENY Jesus is God (or His Spirit), then Who or WHAT are you actually worshipping & glorifying? You're then admitting that you worship either an angel, a [false] [lesser] god, or a created human being which are idolatry according to commands made by the Father.
​

 

[JHM]

I don't know how a discussion of whether or not Hell exists turned into a discussion on whether or not Christ was created; but since at some point it apparently did, I will post my thoughts on that subject; and pray that it is not "heresy"; because I am also not knowledgeable in the beliefs of the church.

I believe that in the very beginning, only the spirit of God existed. I believe that the Father and the Son are manifestations of that spirit.

Re the origin of Christ, see Matthew 13, 36-43
See Matthew 13 36-43 Ryrie Study Bible.
Matthew 13 36-43 : Then he left the multitude, and went into the house. And his disciples came to Him saying, "Explain to us the parable of the tares in the field." And He answered and said, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man,a and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels." "Therefore just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age." "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear."

Since the "Son of Man" was a name by which Christ referred to himself; it is apparent from the foregoing passage that Christ was the creator of this planet and the life on it. It is my understanding, that he allowed himself to be reborn as a human born of Mary, a virgin, and hence it could be said that the Christ born of Mary was created by the Holy Spirit by means of transforming some of its essence into the genetic material required to make a virgin pregnant. Having made the sacrifice of living as a human and being crucified, he then was resurrected in his original state of being.

I think this may be why the scriptures stress the need to be "reborn".

Feel free to land all over me on this one, because except for the first part which is quite clear, (i.e. Christ created the earth and all that was originally on it), the rest is guesswork on my part.

 

[GuardianShua]

I presume that you have no Exhaustive Concordance.


Im talking about the pure word of God and you are talking about mans traditions. If I said to you that God's names were replaced in our bibles with words like him, lord, and God, would you be able to look it up in a {Exhaustive Concordance.} This is my complaint, everyone is talking to me about mans traditions, and I am talking about the pure word of God. How are you going to see what Im talking about, unless you have an (Exaustive Concordance.) Do you have an Exaustive Concordance? I have both, the old K.J.V. and the N.I.V. (Exaustive Concordances.) It's a issue of translation vs interpretation. note that those who oppose the so- called pagain beleivf in the Trinity are JW, or Oneness or Christadelphians.That is not true, there are many more. In Christian history, it was the Pagan Christians who distroyed the Judaeo Christians. Those who were beheaded and burned at the stake, were those who would not keep the Sunday Sabbath and accept Trinitarism. Who changed Gods time and laws? Who uses Gods name title "Holy Father?" Who sits in a temple of God as a god? Who is truly a heretic? Who can on ized the bible?


Trinitarian and Hell doctrine is not an original teaching.


This is a picture of the statue Jupiter giving a Trinitarian sign.


The statue was renamed Peter. http://www.remnantofgod.org/peter-jupiter.jpg I repeat, This Pagan statue of Jupiter was renamed Peter. Jupiter is giving the Trinitarian sign.



The Hellenistic Pagan Jews hung Jesus on the cross as a heretic.


From about 167 BC the Hellenistic Jews were in control of Jerusalem. They were a secret society in control of the people during the life of Jesus.


A word study.


These quotes are from the Encyclopedia Americana,1961 edition.
"Words are frequently changed in an entirely arbitrary way, just for the sake of change, as is the case with taboo, and cant. The purpose is to deform the word in any possible way and render it unrecongnizable."
"Cant ,the secret language of a corporation or class of persons, such as criminals, hoboes, students, soldiers, railroaders, conspirators, and the like." This quote should have also included secret societies.
"Canopus. In Egyptian mythology, a water god, represented on vessels of a spherical shape." That is, the shape of a serpent.
"Cannibalism, Kan/i/bal/ism, a customary, socially approved practice, among certain barbarous peoples, of eating human flesh." "The fact that the older, learned term "anthropophagy" derives from the classic Greek anthropos (man) , and phagein (eat), suggests that from ancient times barbarous peoples were known to eat human flesh, or at least were accused of doing so."

Here is a list of proper names of some snakes.

Apostolepis: nick name, messenger snake.
Acanthophis: Adder's.
Canna, Pseudaspis: Mole snake.
Candidus, Bungarus.
Candoia: #1. Aspera, #2. Bibroni, #3. Carinata.
Caninus, Corallas: Emerald tree boa.
Cantherigerus, Alsophis.
Cantil, Agkistrodon bilineatus.
Canus, Tropidophis.
Cantori, Trimeresurus.
Canum, Gyalopion: Western hook-nosed.
It was the Vati can that can on ized the bible. The word "Vatican" is a compound word, but in what dictionary is that stated? Have you ever given any thought to the term "Social Engineering."

 

[Nadiine]

Trinitarian and Hell doctrine is not an original teaching.


This is a picture of the statue Jupiter giving a Trinitarian sign.

Are you not aware that Satan MIMICKS what is true? He warps and distorts the truth to make a lie.

Maybe you can tell me why there's an UNHOLY TRINITY found in Revelation? The beast, the false prophet and the Antichrist - all 3 are working together against God.

This concept is all thru the Bible.

And you can lift up any of your pagan junk, but it DOESN'T REMOVE SCRIPTURE TEACHING that directly shows us the 3 are ONE GOD.
All 3 are seen in the beginning at creation, are eternal, have only the attributes that God can have, and does only the things that God can do.

You cannot excuse that away with your paganistic trash excuses. They don't ERASE WHAT IS TAUGHT. They are not only called God directly, but have and do only things that God Himself has and can do.
And they elevate one another as God. I don't care WHAT you want to offer; it is taught in the bible directly and indirectly by implication.

So no, I reject everything you offer bcuz it cannot UNDO what is given to us in the Word of God plainly.

PS. they also found Zodiac charts & in tiles on the floors of Jewish Temples, and Ezekiel tells you that they had all kinds of drawings & statues of false gods/creeping creatures on the walls INSIDE God's temple.
God judged them for it.
You might as well use THAT to prove that God tells us to worship other gods while you're at it; it's about equivalent to what you're proclaiming here in error.

 

[sentipente]

Three is all over creation. Each individual begins with three because it takes two to make each one. You cannot speak of yourself without recognizing the two that contributed to your one.

 

[GuardianShua]

Are you not aware that Satan MIMICKS what is true? He warps and distorts the truth to make a lie.

Maybe you can tell me why there's an UNHOLY TRINITY found in Revelation? The beast, the false prophet and the Antichrist - all 3 are working together against God.

This concept is all thru the Bible.

And you can lift up any of your pagan junk, but it DOESN'T REMOVE SCRIPTURE TEACHING that directly shows us the 3 are ONE GOD.
All 3 are seen in the beginning at creation, are eternal, have only the attributes that God can have, and does only the things that God can do.

You cannot excuse that away with your paganistic trash excuses. They don't ERASE WHAT IS TAUGHT. They are not only called God directly, but have and do only things that God Himself has and can do.
And they elevate one another as God. I don't care WHAT you want to offer; it is taught in the bible directly and indirectly by implication.

So no, I reject everything you offer bcuz it cannot UNDO what is given to us in the Word of God plainly.

PS. they also found Zodiac charts & in tiles on the floors of Jewish Temples, and Ezekiel tells you that they had all kinds of drawings & statues of false gods/creeping creatures on the walls INSIDE God's temple.
God judged them for it.
You might as well use THAT to prove that God tells us to worship other gods while you're at it; it's about equivalent to what you're proclaiming here in error.

If Trinitarism is a biblical truth then why is there scripture to contradict that. Let me see some scripture that says you must believe in the Catholic doctrine of the Trinity to be a Christian. Stop dodgeing the questions to derail the facts.

 

[sentipente]

Is there someone somewhere collecting tickets from those who can prove they are Christians? I don't understand the tone of this thread.

 

[Cris413]

Genesis 1:26

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle,

God – singular - us – plural

our – plural - image – singular

our – plural - likeness – singular

(I would also like to point out for those who read through the science/religion thread…this is NOT talking about a space ship full of alien beings set about by God to create life on a lifeless planet&#8230


Matthew 28:19

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

in the name…not name(s)

No pagan gods here…One God in three persons – the Trinity


John 1:1 & 14

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Now this is to me is undeniable FACT that Jesus is God just as surely as God the Father is God…In the beginning was the Word…the Word was with God…AND the Word was God…and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us...

When I did a Bible study with one of my dear friends who also split the hair that Jesus was only the "Son" and she presented me with verse after verse that she thought pointed to that understanding....

When I brought these verses in John to her attention...her response was..."well, lets just agree to disagree and move on..." I let it go and we moved on with the study...

She no longer has the understanding of Jesus being the "Son" ONLY....

Praise God there are those not so ensconced in their own understandings that they are unteachable by the Holy Spirit and the truth of God's word in Scripture...

 

[Nadiine]

Is there someone somewhere collecting tickets from those who can prove they are Christians? I don't understand the tone of this thread.

Perhaps you'de ask about Jesus' Messiahship since He was using a whip and turning over tables in His "zeal" for God's house?
Or asking about Paul's "tone" in Acts 13 with Simon.
Or when Paul said this:

1 Cor. 16:
21 The greeting is in my own hand--Paul.
22 If anyone does not love the Lord,
he is to be accursed Maranatha.​

The tone is to relay the truth of God found in His word. I see no one here attacking anyone in hatred.
This is the sad state of the world today - giving truth plainly is now "mean and ugly" unless you're not using warm fuzzies and tolerating error.
If some of the apostles in our NT were talking today, i have no doubt in my mind that they'de be literally attacked as haters today for the way they relay God's truth or use rebuke on some.

The problem isn't us, it's the false ideal of what "LOVE" is today.
That immho is the real cancer in the church.

 

[Ben12]

Genesis 1:26

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle,

God – singular - us – plural

our – plural - image – singular

our – plural - likeness – singular

(I would also like to point out for those who read through the science/religion thread…this is NOT talking about a space ship full of alien beings set about by God to create life on a lifeless planet&#8230


Matthew 28:19

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

in the name…not name(s)

No pagan gods here…One God in three persons – the Trinity


John 1:1 & 14

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Now this is to me is undeniable FACT that Jesus is God just as surely as God the Father is God…In the beginning was the Word…the Word was with God…AND the Word was God…and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us...

When I did a Bible study with one of my dear friends who also split the hair that Jesus was only the "Son" and she presented me with verse after verse that she thought pointed to that understanding....

When I brought these verses in John to her attention...her response was..."well, lets just agree to disagree and move on..." I let it go and we moved on with the study...

She no longer has the understanding of Jesus being the "Son" ONLY....

Praise God there are those not so ensconced in their own understandings that they are unteachable by the Holy Spirit and the truth of God's word in Scripture...

Name in scripture speaks of nature character and authority; nothing mentioned of three persons here or anywhere else in the total Bible. A person according to Webster is a man or women; God is neither; He is Devine. God is a Spirit not a person. Oh sure Jesus was a person; but only for 33 years; then He and the Father are one. No such word as trinity in scripture; got that word from the Catholic’s just like the word hell.

Yes Jesus is God; He was God manifested in the flesh; God also manifested Himself in a burning bush, a pillar of fire and many other things.

 

[Nadiine]

Name in scripture speaks of nature character and authority; nothing mentioned of three persons here or anywhere else in the total Bible. A person according to Webster is a man or women; God is neither; He is Devine. God is a Spirit not a person. Oh sure Jesus was a person; but only for 33 years; then He and the Father are one. No such word as trinity in scripture; got that word from the Catholic’s just like the word hell.

Yes Jesus is God; He was God manifested in the flesh; God also manifested Himself in a burning bush, a pillar of fire and many other things.

So you also deny the Trinity?? Why am I not shocked about that?.
There is a pattern in who believes what.

If Jesus is God, and the Father is God... guess what? You have Polytheism (worship of 2 or more Gods/gods)

The trinity is the only doctrine that fits scripture in all it's fullness on the identity of God - the 3 are God as a GODHEAD. A Unit. A Tri-Unity.
If you cannot grasp that, then you cannot grasp the Body of Christ and you cannot grasp a family unit or husband and wife who are ONE yet plurally more than one within the unit.

 

[Ben12]

I do not claim that every person has to immediately understand what the Trinity is (God's fullness of being) & grasp all the mystery of His essense. Quite frankly, if we can so easily grasp who God truly is, then we have one simple God that I'm not sure I even want.
If He so easily fits into my premade little box, then I'm not real interested in Him.

You see a mystery in scripture can be revealed; the trinity is not a spiritual mystery; it is just religious Babel and that is why it cannot be explained. The Bible never says there are three persons in one, or as some believe God the Father, God the Son and God the HS, NO scriture simply says God is one; ask any Jew.

 

[Ben12]

So you also deny the Trinity?? Why am I not shocked about that?.
There is a pattern in who believes what.

If Jesus is God, and the Father is God... guess what? You have Polytheism (worship of 2 or more Gods/gods)

The trinity is the only doctrine that fits scripture in all it's fullness on the identity of God - the 3 are God as a GODHEAD. A Unit. A Tri-Unity.
If you cannot grasp that, then you cannot grasp the Body of Christ and you cannot grasp a family unit or husband and wife who are ONE yet plurally more than one within the unit.

No they are the same; one God; God manifested in the flesh; that simple….
The Word Godhead is a mistranslation; it simply means divinity (check that for me I do not have my PC Bible)

 

[GuardianShua]

Genesis 1:26

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle,

God – singular - us – plural

our – plural - image – singular

our – plural - likeness – singular

(I would also like to point out for those who read through the science/religion thread…this is NOT talking about a space ship full of alien beings set about by God to create life on a lifeless planet…)


Matthew 28:19

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

in the name…not name(s)

No pagan gods here…One God in three persons – the Trinity


John 1:1 & 14

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Now this is to me is undeniable FACT that Jesus is God just as surely as God the Father is God…In the beginning was the Word…the Word was with God…AND the Word was God…and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us...

When I did a Bible study with one of my dear friends who also split the hair that Jesus was only the "Son" and she presented me with verse after verse that she thought pointed to that understanding....

When I brought these verses in John to her attention...her response was..."well, lets just agree to disagree and move on..." I let it go and we moved on with the study...

She no longer has the understanding of Jesus being the "Son" ONLY....

Praise God there are those not so ensconced in their own understandings that they are unteachable by the Holy Spirit and the truth of God's word in Scripture...

The words "Let Us" are not in the original scripture, but were added the our bibles. And the oldest book of Matthew 28 did not have: Father, son and Holy Ghost. That is what Im complaining about. Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance...

 

[GuardianShua]

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[Cris413]

<snip>The Bible never says there are three persons in one, or as some believe God the Father, God the Son and God the HS, NO scriture simply says God is one; ask any Jew.

Ben...sounds like you may be delving into some sort of "literal" meaning in Scripture here....

 

[Nadiine]

The words "Let Us" are not in the original scripture, but were added the our bibles. And the oldest book of Matthew 28 did not have: Father, son and Holy Ghost. That is what Im complaining about. Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance, Exhaustive Concordance...

Don't you think our Christian scholars would have picked up on all this already??
I mean come on. IF this is true, then why haven't our finest and brightest scholars noticed it? I have a thick hardcover book with over 600 pages detailing exactly how our Bible's came to be in our era, and it's so complex, I can barely absorb all of it to understand it all.

What we have is trustworthy - I always find it ironic that it's ONLY the Trinity and HELL doctrines that are so "tampered with",.... ALL THE BLESSINGS AND ALL THE SALVATION & GOODIES REMAIN THE SAME - just the stuff that's important is all wrong.
I find this a bit suspicious to say the very least. I wonder why that is???

 

[GuardianShua]

Ben...sounds like you may be delving into some sort of "literal" meaning in Scripture here....

Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger:
He makes this confession as to the origin of the chief Trinity text
of Matthew 28:19. "The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian)
profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and
third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far
as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came
from the city of Rome."

 

[Nadiine]

If you can't get around something obvious in the Bible, scream "mistranslation" or "tampering" to get around it.

It always works that way

 

[GuardianShua]

Don't you think our Christian scholars would have picked up on all this already??
I mean come on. IF this is true, then why haven't our finest and brightest scholars noticed it? I have a thick hardcover book with over 600 pages detailing exactly how our Bible's came to be in our era, and it's so complex, I can barely absorb all of it to understand it all.

What we have is trustworthy - I always find it ironic that it's ONLY the Trinity and HELL doctrines that are so "tampered with",.... ALL THE BLESSINGS AND ALL THE SALVATION & GOODIES REMAIN THE SAME - just the stuff that's important is all wrong.
I find this a bit suspicious to say the very least. I wonder why that is???

They have, but you wont see that info in the KJ, but you can find it in an NIV exhaustive Concordance.