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I agree. But this raises an interesting question. When we then quote from our Bibles, should we insert the proper word where we see Hell?In regards to our bibles: Are more interested in interpretations, or correct translations? If you only want the pure word of God, then you should spend time studying the translation of certain words.
When I say I dont believe in hell, I mean the place. The punishment for sin is death, but not for those who are saved. The dead are cut off from life for all eternity. The word "hell" was introduced into scripture in place of the words "pit" and "grave". I believe that it is a sin to join Pagan beliefs to the word of God, our bibles.
Excellent post Ben."For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead" (2 Cor. 5:14). How can one who is dead find God? Impossible! Why should Paul connect the love of Christ with the fact that ALL WERE DEAD? Simply because it is the love of God in the Christ which is accomplishing this work, in His sovereign way, of bringing the whole world back to life and to God. Again we read in Eph. 2:12 "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world." Ah. this is really a desperate situation And all mankind was in a place like that. All of us were absolutely dead to God and without God in the world. One of the most enlightening passages along this line is found in Jn. 1: IO. "He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and THE WORLD KNEW HIM NOT." How can anyone seek after the Lord if they don't know Him? How clear that mankind was in a dilemma. We could not direct our own steps or order our way before the Lord. We were without God and we were dead. And now John declares that Jesus came and walked in the midst of the people He had created, AND THEY DID NOT KNOW HIM! What chance did men have to return to God EXCEPT GOD HELP THEM?
The prophet Jeremiah declared, "O Lord, I know that the WAY OF MAN IS NOT IN HIMSELF; IT IS NOT IN MAN THAT WALKETH TO DIRECT HIS STEPS" (Jer. 10:23). God had been saying through the prophet that His people were scattered, His pastors had become brutish and His tabernacle was destroyed, so it was obvious that the way of man is not in himself. This being true, man cannot direct his steps or set his pathway. This is the condition in which God began His redemptive work with man. If it was not in us to direct our steps, then we could not direct our steps back to God. This ability was not a part of the make-up of man. In the beginning the first man deliberately, and according to the plan of God, directed his steps away from God and, hopelessly lost, man has walked that way ever since. Mankind was made blind and couldn't see his way back to God, even though, as Paul said to the Athenians, surely God is not far from any one of us. How we thank God that He sent one Man into this world who did know the way hack to the Father! This Man knew how to order His own step, and also how to order our steps, when we could not direct them ourselves. We can see it so plainly in a little child. Even after the child learns to walk, it does not know where or how to walk to keep out of danger and harm. Its way must be directed by an adult. Without any fear it would run onto a highway filled with speeding cars. It does not know how to order its way. Just so, mankind does not know how to direct its way!
"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all" (Rom. 11:32). "Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience (the) many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall (the) many be made righteous" (Rom. 5:18-19). "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order" (I Cor. 15:21-23). It would be a most beautiful thing if all the saints of God could have an open vision that would enable them to understand the simple and obvious truth that if the first Adam could do something which the last Adam could not undo, then the first Adam had more power than the last Adam. In other words, if Adam could put ten people into sin and death, and the Christ could take only nine out, then Adam would have greater influence and power than the Christ. But whether we believe it or not, ALL POWER HAS BEEN GIVEN UNTO THE CHRIST.
With the foregoing truth in mind let us read a most remarkable and significant statement in Jn. 12:31. "NOW is the judgment of this world." What a volume of truth is contained in those few short words! The word "judgment" literally means A DECISION. We know that any judgment is a decision. Jesus was saying that now is THE DECISION of this world, or now is the time the world is going to decide what it is going to do. At the time He uttered these words Jesus was preparing to be sacrificed on behalf of the people of the world. He came to taste death for every man. He was speaking just prior to His crucifixion and the world was soon to make a momentous decision. The world would decide just what it would do with the Christ. It should be clear to every honest heart that the world at that or any other time, WAS NOT CAPABLE OF TURNING TO GOD, or of MAKING A DECISION FOR ITSELF THAT WOULD CAUSE IT TO RETURN TO GOD. There was absolutely no desire, no will, nor any purpose on the part of mankind to return to God. The people of Israel, with the Gentiles, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord and His Anointed. They wouldn't have "this man" to rule over them. They were finished with Jesus, the Son of the living God. So Jesus declared that the world must decide what it would do, yet it was in no condition to decide!
This condition is again mirrored in the lives of our children. In the life of a child, there are times when decisions must be made, and the child is not capable of deciding, SO SOMEONE ELSE MUST DO IT FOR HIM. The parent, or other responsible person, must make the decision. Here in chapter twelve of John we see a whole world that is estranged from God and dead in trespasses and sins, without God and without hope. Here was a world whose ears were stopped, whose eyes were blinded, and understanding had been taken from their hearts. Yet this world was going to be required to make a decision!
Another profound statement, freighted with meaning, accompanies the statement by Jesus that we have previously quoted. He said, "NOW shall the prince of this world be cast out" (Jn. 12:31). Christ proclaims two great truths which cannot be separated. "NOW is the judgment (decision) of this world: NOW shall the prince of this world be cast out." The world had come to the crossroads and must make a decision, but was not capable of doing it. So Jesus said that the prince of this world would be cast out and that He, Jesus, the last Adam, the representative of the whole human race, would decide for the whole human race, just as the first Adam, the first representative man, decided for us all. If the first Adam, as a representative man was able to decide or all the world and put us all into sin and death, then the last Adam, the Christ of God, as the representative man could decide to take all of us out of sin!
How meaningful, then, the inspired words of the apostle Paul, "For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son..." (Rom. 5:10). According to all human reasoning this is an impossibility - that my enemy could be reconciled to me by the death of my own son. But Paul argues that the death of Jesus reconciled us, the enemies of God, unto God. By the death of the Son of God was this wrought. Naturally, an enemy would refuse to be reconciled. He would have nothing to do with it. Nevertheless, God sent His Son, and by the dying of that Son, reconciled T-H-E W-0-R-L-D unto Himself (2 Cor. 5:19). God did not consult with the world, did not ask the world whether it wanted to be reconciled. He just went ahead and did it! God knew from the beginning that we would not be capable of deciding for ourselves. We would be so bound by the fetters of sin, so bound by out pride and ignorance, our minds so twisted by the illusions of this world, our reasoning so warped by the god of this world, that we could not decide. So God decreed that He would seal up all humanity in unbelief, conclude all under sin, stop up their ears that they could not hear, blind their eyes that they could not see, and take understanding front their hearts that they could not understand. He would send His own Son as a representative man to make the decision for us, to lead us all back to Himself, since we were notable to direct our path or order our way. He concluded us all in unbelief and then let JESUS DECIDE FOR US. This, God did!
BY ONE MAN! Dare we believe it? Dare we embrace the simple but glorious truth that "...as by the offense of one judgment came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life" (Rom. 5:18)? Are the blessed words of the apostle Paul too good to be true, wherein he states, "God was in Christ RECONCILING T-H-E W-0-R-L-D unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation" (2 Cor. 5:19)? Ah - the destiny of the whole race was settled in one man, even Jesus. He was both the sacrifice and the new federal head of the race who would gather us all up into His loving arms and bring us back to God. He would lead all into salvation. Oh! how I rejoice that God did not permit the world to decide the eternal question, but that He sent His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, to do it for us. What matchless love! And in God's own good time, as the orderly procession of the ages run their course, all will be worked out for His glory.
In view of the marvelous, glorious, majestic and all-inclusive work of the last Adam - what good would it do for man to be a FREE MORAL AGENT? God has overruled the will of man, anyway. Oh, no, beloved, man is not a free moral agent. JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY MAN WHO IS A FREE MORAL AGENT. And He made the right choice, the one and only right decision. And HE MADE IT FOR US ALL! Praise His name! And we, the FIRSTFRUITS of His redemption, are the proof, the guarantee, that God is both willing and able to save ALL. Thank God! Man is NOT a free moral agent!
It would be if it were applied correctly to biblical principles & teachings we're clearly given (repeatedly and in lengthy detail)... and if it were true...Excellent post Ben.
When reading a parabol, it helps to not be to literal. I know a parabol when I see one. My hobby is studying the parabolic words of the bible. Read Lk 24:25."Where theyr worm does not die" Michael
That's not entirely true tho... a parable is a LIKENESS in meaning using something else that isn't literal...When reading a parabol, it helps to not be to literal. I know a parabol when I see one. My hobby is studying the parabolic words of the bible. Read Lk 24:25.
Quote: That's not entirely true tho... a parable is a LIKENESS in meaning using something else that isn't literal... /// Did you mean to say: somthing else that is literal.../// And do camel's truly pass through an eye of a needle. Pardon me; It should be, a parabol is something else that is not literal.That's not entirely true tho... a parable is a LIKENESS in meaning using something else that isn't literal...
so the worm isn't necessarily literal, BUT SOMETHING/someone NEVER DYING IS THE POINT of the parable.
Something (a shoe, a person's leg, a piece of paper, a dog, a leaf) doesn't DIE. What is it?
THEIR __________[blank] doesn't die. What doesn't die?
Parables aren't disconnected from the true meaning being relayed; they enhance & simplify it and are usually similar - even tho not literal. Analogies work the same way in principle.
Look at the prodigal son parable - we can use the unreal characters to relay God's love for us and taking us back when we are unfaithful to Him (as we know from the book of Hosea).
Mark 10:25
" It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
The camel isn't literal - the principle is the point... the principles are what carry thru.
I was viewing it as, "camels do not literally go thru eyes of needles"... but we get the principle of something being nearly impossible... so in that way, I said the camel isn't literal; as in, literally going thru a literal needle....Quote: That's not entirely true tho... a parable is a LIKENESS in meaning using something else that isn't literal... /// Did you mean to say: somthing else that is literal.../// And do camel's truly pass through an eye of a needle.
Yes all you pick and choose is eternal torture; no mercy for billions.It would be if it were applied correctly to biblical principles & teachings we're clearly given (repeatedly and in lengthy detail)... and if it were true...
Just because God is love doesn't remove His attribute of pure Holiness, righteousness and justice... God is continually reduced by people who pick & choose which Attributes they'll focus on.
They all operate together in perfect harmony and it's GOD who informs us how He acts and reacts - not us making up our doctrines to put God in our little designated boxes.
I pick ALL the verses together that teach the same thing without me having TWIST THEM to suit my theory (what you want God to do - vs.what HE says He will do).Yes all you pick and choose is eternal torture; no mercy for billions.
Ben, you know that I dont believe in hell, because it was introduced into the bible. However, I do believe that the condemed lose their lives as a result of their choice. Because the words for a eternity are use repetedly, and in different ways, it would be logical to conclude that it is final. unless you can provide scripture that shows a different outcome. This question is asked provided it is that you believe no one is lost. So I ask; do you believe that no one is lost for all eternity?Yes all you pick and choose is eternal torture; no mercy for billions.
I dont want to take the time to look up all of the names, but if you want to, feel free to do so.out of all the parables, which ones use peoples names, not titles but names?
None of them I know of zeke. I don't believe Luke 16 is a parable but its a hot debate and I don't think anyone can really prove which one it is.out of all the parables, which ones use peoples names, not titles but names?
We are all over the place on these debates; I have shown this scripturally in so many ways; in so many posts. Here are a couple verse that declare it and I just posted as well as look at the post on reconciliation.Ben, you know that I dont believe in hell, because it was introduced into the bible. However, I do believe that the condemed lose their lives as a result of their choice. Because the words for a eternity are use repetedly, and in different ways, it would be logical to conclude that it is final. unless you can provide scripture that shows a different outcome. This question is asked provided it is that you believe no one is lost. So I ask; do you believe that no one is lost for all eternity?
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