There is no Hell!

[GuardianShua]

Do you take part in any of the other paganism I described?

I would go to a Christian wedding, and God does approve of marriage. But in regards to other Pagan holidays or practices: NO.

 

[DarkNLovely]

I would go to a Christian wedding, and God does approve of marriage. But in regards to other Pagan holidays or practices: NO.

But Christian weddings are steeped in pagan practice. Why can't they have a biblical times wedding? And do you aprove of them wearing rings? Of the bride wearing white? Of bridesmaids who's purpose is to confuse evil spirits so that they would not harm the bride. Let's not even talk about the wedding march! So you are telling me that you would sit though a vile parody of a biblical marriage/wedding? Oh you wouldn't dare, would you? The Bible also says that we aren't to associate with the pagans and have nothing to do with their practices. Yet you would justify it by saying that God approves of marriage even though you know that weddings full of pagan practices aren't His idea? Mike! You got some 'splanin' to do!!!!

 

[DarkNLovely]

Trinity, hyper-static union, omnipresence of God, original sin.


You don't believe in any of these either, right?

 

[GuardianShua]

But Christian weddings are steeped in pagan practice. Why can't they have a biblical times wedding? And do you aprove of them wearing rings? Of the bride wearing white? Of bridesmaids who's purpose is to confuse evil spirits so that they would not harm the bride. Let's not even talk about the wedding march! So you are telling me that you would sit though a vile parody of a biblical marriage/wedding? Oh you wouldn't dare, would you? The Bible also says that we aren't to associate with the pagans and have nothing to do with their practices. Yet you would justify it by saying that God approves of marriage even though you know that weddings full of pagan practices aren't His idea? Mike! You got some 'splanin' to do!!!!

Well, Im taking the rest of the day off line, ill talk to you another day.

 

[Brucea]

You haven't proved your point, and there are cases of paganism in the Bible. I don't think God approved, so much as he had to put up with a lot. He is gracious. Do you know that Trinity, hyper-static union, omnipresence of God, original sin, and a whole bucnh of our other doctrines aren't mentioned specifically as we understand them either? Nor any of our holidays, or marriages as we have them today! I'm assuming you wouldn't ware a wedding ring and or attend a Christian wedding or any of these other pagan practices we Christians have adapted. Oh yeah, and no Christmas parties or Easter dinners, right? We also see divination and other "witchcraft" practices being approved of. Heck, even incest! I feel sorry for God sometimes. We mess up and He gets blamed for it. That being said, we should not throw out common sense for poor word studies. Look at the consept being presented-not just the word. Don't get stuck on that. As far hell, the idea that we have of hell is absolutely present in scripture(yes, even in Jude!) and I absolutley believed that it was understood the way we uderstand it. I ask what you think outer darkness is? I dare you to ask a Greek or Orthodox Christian about those words and tell them they don't mean "hell"! As a matter of fact, don't bother because you would be out of your league. I also see no where in the Bible where it says that we should have screen names on forums in honor of Archangels. That could be seen as deifying them and is thus blasphemy! WWhat is so wrng with hell anyway?

Amen D&L

 

[DarkNLovely]

Well, Im taking the rest of the day off line, ill talk to you another day.

Oh! Now we are talikng about non pagan weddings, huh? Well you didn't say that before! Are you changing your story?

Laters!

 

[Tavita]

But Christian weddings are steeped in pagan practice. Why can't they have a biblical times wedding? And do you aprove of them wearing rings? Of the bride wearing white? Of bridesmaids who's purpose is to confuse evil spirits so that they would not harm the bride. Let's not even talk about the wedding march! So you are telling me that you would sit though a vile parody of a biblical marriage/wedding? Oh you wouldn't dare, would you? The Bible also says that we aren't to associate with the pagans and have nothing to do with their practices. Yet you would justify it by saying that God approves of marriage even though you know that weddings full of pagan practices aren't His idea? Mike! You got some 'splanin' to do!!!!

I think the idea is that when God points something out to you that He shows you to be pagan then you should deal with it. If He shows you christmas and easter is pagan then you ought to stop, if weddings, then weddings.

We are born into a pagan society and are mostly raised that way. When you come to Christ you do not automatically cease all pagan practices. We must drop them as they are shown to us and then take on the culture of God. It's an ongoing process of sanctification. People are not in the same place of that process at any one time, so we can't point our fingers at anyone else in judgment for not being where 'we' are.

Sometimes the Holy Spirit will make us aware of a practice through another christian, or something we read. And if it convicts us then we need to repent. And at times when we are convicted about something we will fight/struggle with Holy Spirit until we yield to His will, those practices can be deeply ingrained.

So, if the christian wedding has been shown to be pagan to you then you must repent of it and when you are married be married the way He wants. But it hasn't been shown to a great many people. I have yet to see what a biblical marriage entails.. I know what the messianic wedding is like, but is that the wedding role we must abide by? I realize it's the closest model we have. At the same time, if we're asked to a christian wedding... then we should go. Did not Jesus go to where the sinners were? Did He not eat and drink with them to the extent He was charged as a wine-bibber/drunkard and sinner? It's love that over rules everything in the Kingdom. Love covers a multitude of sin. He came to us... where we lived in our sin. So we should reach out to others in their sin, where they are. If I refused to go to my son's wedding that he planned because it's pagan, tell me what would God think of that?

DarkNLovely, do YOU refuse to go to pagan weddings? Even if they're by people you love?

I don't believe in Christmas and Easter either, and at first would not participate, and all it did was hurt my family. I still do not put up decorations, or have one of those pagan trees. Now I have a meal with them and have fun with them on the day. The next commandment after loving God is loving your neighbor.

 

[DarkNLovely]

I think the idea is that when God points something out to you that He shows you to be pagan then you should deal with it. If He shows you christmas and easter is pagan then you ought to stop, if weddings, then weddings.

We are born into a pagan society and are mostly raised that way. When you come to Christ you do not automatically cease all pagan practices. We must drop them as they are shown to us and then take on the culture of God. It's an ongoing process of sanctification. People are not in the same place of that process at any one time, so we can't point our fingers at anyone else in judgment for not being where 'we' are.

Sometimes the Holy Spirit will make us aware of a practice through another christian, or something we read. And if it convicts us then we need to repent. And at times when we are convicted about something we will fight/struggle with Holy Spirit until we yield to His will, those practices can be deeply ingrained.

So, if the christian wedding has been shown to be pagan to you then you must repent of it and when you are married be married the way He wants. But it hasn't been shown to a great many people. I have yet to see what a biblical marriage entails.. I know what the messianic wedding is like, but is that the wedding role we must abide by? I realize it's the closest model we have. At the same time, if we're asked to a christian wedding... then we should go. Did not Jesus go to where the sinners were? Did He not eat and drink with them to the extent He was charged as a wine-bibber/drunkard and sinner? It's love that over rules everything in the Kingdom. Love covers a multitude of sin. He came to us... where we lived in our sin. So we should reach out to others in their sin, where they are. If I refused to go to my son's wedding that he planned because it's pagan, tell me what would God think of that?

DarkNLovely, do YOU refuse to go to pagan weddings? Even if they're by people you love?

I don't believe in Christmas and Easter either, and at first would not participate, and all it did was hurt my family. I still do not put up decorations, or have one of those pagan trees. Now I have a meal with them and have fun with them on the day. The next commandment after loving God is loving your neighbor.

I was being sarcastic becasue I felt the OP was being rediculous! Forgive me, but I was matching an absurdity with an absurdity! I'm all for pagan weddings! And Christmas, and Easter, and Holloween, And All Souls, and Kwaanza, and Chanuka, and taday is National Fraggle Rock Day! Why on earth would I wanna miss that? *singing* Now it's time to play/ Worries for another day/Cast your cares away/ Down at Fraggle Rock!

 

[Tavita]

I was being sarcastic becasue I felt the OP was being rediculous! Forgive me, but I was matching an absurdity with an absurdity! I'm all for pagan weddings! And Christmas, and Easter, and Holloween, And All Souls, and Kwaanza, and Chanuka, and taday is National Fraggle Rock Day! Why on earth would I wanna miss that? *singing* Now it's time to play/ Worries for another day/Cast your cares away/ Down at Fraggle Rock!

Well, that's great that you are doing what Holy Spirit tells you.

In regards to the OP?

What is the deal with hell then? There is a hell, but it's not what the church has taught. It's not fire and brimstone, or Dante's inferno. It's the place where the dead are kept for the judgment.

The Lake of Fire is where the pain, fire and suffering is. We mustn't get the two mixed up.

It's through the pagan beliefs of what hell is that the church has the idea of fire and torment, whereas 'hell' is just plain and simply the resting place for the dead.

 

[zeke37]

in that Lake of Fire, God destroyes souls forever,

Our Father does not torture people forever, why would He need to?????

any soul that gets put into that lake of Fire will be utterly destroyed from within, never to exist again...I don't even think that any one of us who overcome, will even remember any that do not overcome....

there are no tears in Paradise,

in His service
c

 

[DarkNLovely]

in that Lake of Fire, God destroyes souls forever,

Our Father does not torture people forever, why would He need to?????

any soul that gets put into that lake of Fire will be utterly destroyed from within, never to exist again...I don't even think that any one of us who overcome, will even remember any that do not overcome....

there are no tears in Paradise,

in His service
c

That's what I believe! But it's still hell!

 

[Tavita]

in that Lake of Fire, God destroyes souls forever,

Our Father does not torture people forever, why would He need to?????

any soul that gets put into that lake of Fire will be utterly destroyed from within, never to exist again...I don't even think that any one of us who overcome, will even remember any that do not overcome....

there are no tears in Paradise,

in His service
c

Yes, you believe in annihilation and I believe in all men being saved. But we both agree that there is no eternal torment.

 

[Tavita]

That's what I believe! But it's still hell!

Hell is thrown into the Lake of Fire. How can the Lake of Fire be hell? It can't be thrown into itself can it?

 

[DarkNLovely]

Hell is the place of torment the souls are in now. The lake of fire is where they are destroyed. In short, it's all hell! We can debate terms, but ultimatly, it still sucks, doesen't it?

 

[Tavita]

Hell is the place of torment the souls are in now. The lake of fire is where they are destroyed. In short, it's all hell! We can debate terms, but ultimatly, it still sucks, doesen't it?

Why are they in torment?

The Judgment hasn't happened yet.

 

[DarkNLovely]

It's all in the Bible! They aren't having a good time. I would again cite the story of Lazy in the Abrahams bsosoms!

 

[Nadiine]

Why are they in torment?

The Judgment hasn't happened yet.

Well, Um....
Is God obligated to be providing them Champagne, Caviar, Las Vegas shows and harems until their number comes up for the White Throne judgment?

What is the point you're trying to make here? That becuz they're suffering BEFORE their judgment, they will "get out" after it?

 

[Tavita]

It's all in the Bible! They aren't having a good time. I would again cite the story of Lazy in the Abrahams bsosoms!

The parable of Abraham's bosom is not a teaching about heaven and hell as most suppose.

 

[Tavita]

Well, Um....
Is God obligated to be providing them Champagne, Caviar, Las Vegas shows and harems until their number comes up for the White Throne judgment?

What is the point you're trying to make here? That becuz they're suffering BEFORE their judgment, they will "get out" after it?

Excuse me? You've got to be kidding!

Those who have accepted Christ are already with Him. But what of those who have never heard of Him? What of those who have never had the opportunity to accept Him? There are multitudes. All of them will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment... by their works. Now you've got them already judged with their punishment already metered out before judgment? You want God to torment and torture them before judgment? We don't even do that in our courts of law.

What is the point you're trying to make here? That becuz they're suffering BEFORE their judgment, they will "get out" after it?

Where'd you get that from, Nadiine?

The only point I made was that hell is the resting place of the dead until the judgment. Now don't go trying to tell me it's got anything to do with 'universalism'.. even the SDA believe that.

 

[Nadiine]

Excuse me? You've got to be kidding!

Yes, I really was kidding.

Those who have accepted Christ are already with Him. But what of those who have never heard of Him? What of those who have never had the opportunity to accept Him? There are multitudes. All of them will be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment... by their works.

K, Romans 1 covers this - and God gives everyone revelation of Himself. There are several types of Revelations that God gives all people to know Him by.

There's our inner conscience (moral revelation) - you see this in Romans 2:14-15 where gentiles without the law are judged by their obedience to their concience/ it becomes a 'LAW' unto themselves. We all have a moral code of knowing right and wrong.
Then there's general revelation - Creation itself is proof of God - there's no one without excuse to VISUALLY SEE God's handiwork and know He exists and is our Creator.
Then there's special revelation where God is directly calling them personally within their hearts. Most Christians I know have had direct 'contacts' where they knew God was working in them or speaking to them & convicting them to repent.

Every person is responsible to respond to whatever amount of Light God gives them to come to Him by. So no one is without any excuse by the time they die.
And they're judged righteously too - if God didn't give them the Bible, He certainly isn't going to be judging them on what they didn't know from it or couldn't know.

Now you've got them already judged with their punishment already metered out before judgment? You want God to torment and torture them before judgment? We don't even do that in our courts of law.

Have you forgotten that there are DEGREES of punishment and DEGREES of reward? Do you think God is unfair? That He can't know how to correctly judge or punish?
Maybe YOUR idea of punishment is way too soft than what God has in mind; how do you know? We see God's wrath in physical life - striking people dead for lying or grabbing the ark of the covenant before it falls to the ground, sending down brimstone & hail & wiping out entire cities, striking a woman with leprosy for griping against Moses, sending earthquakes that swallowed people up who rebelled.... the lists go on.

I think we need to let God handle His own wrath and stop deciding for Him what He does & doesn't have to do in His sovereignty. It's not my job nor my place to KNOW how He'll judge who for what.

Where'd you get that from, Nadiine?
The only point I made was that hell is the resting place of the dead until the judgment. Now don't go trying to tell me it's got anything to do with 'universalism'.. even the SDA believe that.

Well, according to Luke 16, it's not so restful while they await sentencing for their life.
I only brought up universalism bcuz you promote it - I thought somehow your statement might have had something to do w/ it - nothing more.