There are some standing here who will not taste death-

[DavidPT]

John 10:30 Commentaries: "I and the Father are one."[/SIZE]

John 17:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

The logic would be this. If the Father and Son are the same person, then everyone in this passage has to be the same person, including these---that they also may be one in us. And besides, notice that Jesus said us of He and the Father. Why would He say us if there is only one person total, in regards to the Father and Son?

 

[mkgal1]

Seems like you're in error. That verse applies to the unity between the Father and the Son.

You seem to be denying the one essence of God.

 

[mkgal1]

The logic would be this. If the Father and Son are the same person, then everyone in this passage has to be the same person, including these---that they also may be one in us. And besides, notice that Jesus said us of He and the Father. Why would He say us if there is only one person total, in regards to the Father and Son?

Sidebar comment about "Lord" and "Yahweh" (which is different than using "Father/Son") :

Quoting from Blue Letter Bible-------->Therefore the name Yahweh or Jehovah (Lord) is the name that God uses of Himself.

All Capital Letters In English Translations

In English translations of the Old Testament, whenever we find the word Lord spelled LORD with all capital letters, it is the translation of the name Yahweh.

The Vowel Points Were Taken From Adon

The name Jehovah or Yahweh is taken from the consonants of the divine name and the vowels for the Hebrew word for master "Adon." The four letters that spell the divine name (YHWH or JHVH) are called the Tetragrammaton.

Yahweh Is The Sacred Name

The name Yahweh is sacred. The Jews considered as unpronounceable and incommunicable.

Yahweh Is The Covenant Keeping Name

Yahweh is the covenant-keeping name of God. When the creative aspect of God is recorded then the name Elohim is used (Genesis 1). However when there is a relationship involved with humanity the name Yahweh is used (Genesis 2). These differences are consistent throughout the entire Old Testament.

Yahweh Is Used With Other Names For God

Yahweh is used in combination with other names for God.

Yahweh-Elohim

This is translated "the Lord God." This title is used of God relationship to humanity as the Creator, and Redeemer. ~ Why Is God Called Yahweh? (Jehovah)

 

[parousia70]

Your time is short

Hmmmm now where have I heard that before....

Oh yeah:

“The time has been shortened.” (I Cor. 7:29)

“…to show to His bond-servants the things which must shortly take place.” (Rev. 22:6)

“It is the last hour.” (I Jn. 2:18)

“The time is near.” (Rev. 1:3)

“The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.” (Rom. 16:20)

“I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 3:11)

“You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.” (Jms. 5:8)

Your time is short

So you are telling me I have 2000+ years?
Cool.

 

[Seville90210]

Hmmmm now where have I heard that before....

Oh yeah:

“The time has been shortened.” (I Cor. 7:29)

“…to show to His bond-servants the things which must shortly take place.” (Rev. 22:6)

“It is the last hour.” (I Jn. 2:18)

“The time is near.” (Rev. 1:3)

“The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.” (Rom. 16:20)

“I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 3:11)

“You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.” (Jms. 5:8)


So you are telling me I have 2000+ years?
Cool.

These prophecies are for believers who are looking for His return in the future, not for those who thought it already happened back in 70AD.

 

[parousia70]

These prophecies are for believers who are looking for His return in the future, not for those who thought it already happened back in 70AD.

So soon does not mean soon or does it?

You are all over the map on this friend...
Do you actually have a consistent, cogent position, or do you pick and choose willy nilly when soon means soon and when soon means a long long time?

 

[DavidPT]

Hmmmm now where have I heard that before....

Oh yeah:

“The time has been shortened.” (I Cor. 7:29)

“…to show to His bond-servants the things which must shortly take place.” (Rev. 22:6)

“It is the last hour.” (I Jn. 2:18)

“The time is near.” (Rev. 1:3)

“The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.” (Rom. 16:20)

“I am coming quickly.” (Rev. 3:11)

“You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.” (Jms. 5:8)



So you are telling me I have 2000+ years?
Cool.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:


Revelation 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.


These things that must shortly come to pass, would it not also include the following?

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Have these things come to pass yet?

 

[Seville90210]

So soon does not mean soon or does it?

You are all over the map on this friend...
Do you actually have a consistent, cogent position, or do you pick and choose willy nilly when soon means soon and when soon means a long long time?

I understand those scriptures, I don't see your point or your problem with what Jesus said.

Matthew 13:10-17 King James Version (KJV)
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

John 10:25-27 King James Version (KJV)
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 6:65
And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

Matthew 19:11
But he said to them, “Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given.

1 Corinthians 2:14
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

1 John 2:27
But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.

1 John 2:20
But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge.

1 Corinthians 2:9-10
But, as it is written, “What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”— these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.

Colossians 1:26-27
the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Ephesians 1:9
making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ

Psalm 25:14
The friendship of the Lord is for those who fear him, and he makes known to them his covenant.

Matthew 18:3
and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Psalm 25:8-9
Good and upright is the Lord; therefore he instructs sinners in the way. He leads the humble in what is right, and teaches the humble his way.

1 Corinthians 4:1
This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.



Some people see the prophecies of Jesus' return still future, while others see the prophecies of Jesus' return already fulfilled. In the Garden of Eden, God told Adam and Eve they will die once they eat the fruit from the forbidden tree. They ate and died just as God said. The serpent told Eve if she eats the fruit, she would surely not die. She ate the fruit and did not die. Both told the truth. Some people will never understand the OP.

Matthew 13:12
For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

 

[Seville90210]

So soon does not mean soon or does it?

You are all over the map on this friend...
Do you actually have a consistent, cogent position, or do you pick and choose willy nilly when soon means soon and when soon means a long long time?

Now figure it out.

2 Timothy 4:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

 

[BABerean2]

Now figure it out.

2 Timothy 4:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (No mortals are left after this judgment.)


Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

 

[Seville90210]

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (No mortals are left after this judgment.)

Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

LOL, what a blunder! You post one verse with a comment below about the end of mortals and just below that, you also post John 5:28-29, which states the resurrection of mortals in the grave coming to life.

BABerean2 writes:

the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

 

[parousia70]

Now figure it out.

2 Timothy 4:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Well.. they are your words... why don't you explain them?

You told me "Your time is short"

You also believe "shortly, soon, at hand, about to take place, in a very little while" actually mean the Opposite, namely "Far away, a long time, not near, thousands of years away".

Unless you can elaborate where scripture teaches the difference, we here who possess discernment, are forced to conclude that when you tell me "your time is short" that you must actually mean "you have a long long time yet", since you demonstrably believe and assert "Short = Long".

 

[parousia70]

Have these things come to pass yet?

I believe Jesus and His infallibly inspired apostles who ALL taught those things were ordained to come to pass, soon, shortly, in a very little while, without delay, before some of them had died, before their contemporary generation had passed away.

Unlike many here, perhaps even you, My theology does not seek to render their infallible claims of nearness to them as irrelevant and untrustworthy.

I simply trust they were correct in their proclamations.

You can choose to reject them if you wish.

 

[DavidPT]

I believe Jesus and His infallibly inspired apostles who ALL taught those things were ordained to come to pass, soon, shortly, in a very little while, without delay, before some of them had died, before their contemporary generation had passed away.

Unlike many here, perhaps even you, My theology does not seek to render their infallible claims of nearness to them as irrelevant and untrustworthy.

I simply trust they were correct in their proclamations.

You can choose to reject them if you wish.

What does this mean in regards to what I asked though? Is or is not not the great white throne judgment also something that must soon come to pass? If no, where in Revelation 1:1 and Revelation 22:6 does it say that it does not also include that?

 

[BABerean2]

LOL, what a blunder! You post one verse with a comment below about the end of mortals and just below that, you also post John 5:28-29, which states the resurrection of mortals in the grave coming to life.

BABerean2 writes:

the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

The real blunder is the assumption that those resurrected, and judged in John 5:27-30 are mortals.

Both groups will exist eternally, one in the presence of Christ, and the other in hell...

.

 

[parousia70]

What does this mean in regards to what I asked though? Is or is not not the great white throne judgment also something that must soon come to pass?

Yes.

If no, where in Revelation 1:1 and Revelation 22:6 does it say that it does not also include that?

Well, My answer was yes.

And the Infallible claims of Christ and His apostles are all the PROOF I need that they did.

I have simply conformed my view of the NATURE of those events to fit the Infallibly proclaimed TIMING of them.

In contrast, many here (including maybe you) ignore or render meaningless the Infallibly proclaimed TIMING of those events, to suit their preconceived notion of the NATURE of them.

 

[Seville90210]

You told me "Your time is short"

You're not being honest here. I never told you your time is short. Readers can find out who's telling the truth and who's not by going to the top of this page to post #124 and click the arrow where you quoted me saying "your time is short" and it'll take you to the previous page to post #117 and see me responding to mkgal1, not parousia70.

Your time is short, soon as He arrives, it's checkmate. It's better you learn the biblical definition of "death" and "generation" instead of putting too much time on me and not the bible as it won't get you any closer at understand His parables, especially when many are given about salvation.

Your time is short, soon as He arrives, it's checkmate. It's better you learn the biblical definition of "death" and "generation" instead of putting too much time on me and not the bible as it won't get you any closer at understand His parables, especially when many are given about salvation.

You also believe "shortly, soon, at hand, about to take place, in a very little while" actually mean the Opposite, namely "Far away, a long time, not near, thousands of years away".

No, this not what I believe. You're making things up falsely accusing me to strike an argument.

 

[Seville90210]

The real blunder is the assumption that those resurrected, and judged in John 5:27-30 are mortals.

Not when you realize John 5:27-30 was already fulfilled at the cross when Jesus resurrected the old testament saints appearing to many as mortals in Jerusalem on the day He died as written in Matthew 27:45-54.

Matthew 27:50-53 New Living Translation (NLT)
50 Then Jesus shouted out again, and he released his spirit. 51 At that moment the curtain in the sanctuary of the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, rocks split apart, 52 and tombs opened. The bodies of many godly men and women who had died were raised from the dead. 53 They left the cemetery after Jesus’ resurrection, went into the holy city of Jerusalem, and appeared to many people.​

Now if you'll read what John also tells us in John 5:25 (two verses preceding John 5:27), the resurrection occurred during the first coming, not a future event as you've been promoting on this forum.

John 5:25 King James Version (KJV)
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.​

John 5:25
New International Version
Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

New Living Translation
"And I assure you that the time is coming, indeed it's here now, when the dead will hear my voice--the voice of the Son of God. And those who listen will live.

English Standard Version
“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Berean Study Bible
Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Berean Literal Bible
Truly, truly, I say to you that an hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those having heard will live.

New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

John 5:25 Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Bottom line, John 5:25-30 was fulfilled in Matthew 27:45-54, the day Christ died on the cross. The only way you're able to make this event future is by omitting verse 25.....and Matthew 27:45-54.

 

[Matthew13:9]

Just what was Jesus talking about in Matthew 16 when He said there were people there that would not taste death "until they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom.”

27 aFor the Son of Man is going to come with bhis angels in the glory of his Father, and cthen he will repay each person according to what he has done.

28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not dtaste death euntil they see the Son of Man fcoming in his kingdom.”

Was He talking about 70 ad when the temple was tore down and Jerusalem was scattered to the world?

The death he's referring to is the second death at the judgment and the some that would taste this death would be at the last day when they are Resurrected and condemned by Christ.

 

[iamlamad]

The logic would be this. If the Father and Son are the same person, then everyone in this passage has to be the same person, including these---that they also may be one in us. And besides, notice that Jesus said us of He and the Father. Why would He say us if there is only one person total, in regards to the Father and Son?

David, I have a simple question:
Is your body YOU?
Is your soul YOU?
Is your spirit man YOU?

Of course the answer is yes for all three questions. The human spirit keeping life to your body is the real YOU. Your soul makes your spirit different than any other human on the planet. And your body is still YOU but it too is different. Remember, we are created in His image and after His likeness.

He is God and can separate His Spirit and soul from His body - but all three parts is ONE GOD. Jesus can walk right into the Father and the two appear as one - then He can walk right back out and they appear as two. One little girl that saw this happen said they each had rainbows, but when they came together it was like fireworks!