There are some standing here who will not taste death-

[parousia70]

Time is not on your side.

Time is absolutely on the side of the preterist.

It's the "dealy claiming" futurist who's running out of it.

They've been moving the goalposts further and further out for centuries, and one day "soon" it will all simply fall away.

I give it no more than 50 more years of non fulfillment of their expectations before all the remaining staunch futurists simply die off and an insurmountable majority of Christendom finally relegates Futurism to the dustbin of history where it belongs, and finally gets to the task of building God's Kingdom on earth, instead of continuing to abdicate that responsibility in favor of their theology of fear-mongering and fanatical escapism.

Probably sooner.

​

 

[mkgal1]

Do you know why you don't understand 2 Peter 3:1-8, it's because it's hidden from you. Other people on this forum can understand 2 Peter 3:1-8 to mean 1 day is a 1000 years to God.

Just because I believe in the theology that Jesus fulfilled all He said He would in His time (that "it is finished" like He said on the cross) - that He can be trusted to be faithful and sovereign - doesn't mean I "don't understand" or that "it's hidden from" me.

The text doesn't say 1 day = 1000 years to God (and you're reading that backwards, anyway. It speaks to the swiftness of time....not a stalling or delay of time).

If I were you, I would focus more on trying to understand the bible, better yet, try and understand God. Try Matthew 6:33 for starters.

......you aren't me, so I'll thank you not to offer me advice on "trying to understand the Bible" and "trying to understand God". But since you're offering advice, I assume you're willing to take it: maybe you should focus on the following chapter in Matthew.

Read it carefully. 1 Peter 1 has nothing to do with end time prophecy. The "little while" in verse 6 is NOT telling you the second coming is in a little while.

My point in bringing up 1 Peter 1:6 was that Peter used language that framed time in proper proportion.

The mysteries are hidden from you and you don't understand all these things yet because you haven't been tested yet and is currently living the easy life. Be glad when it comes, that's when God has finally chosen you for a relationship.

One day in the bible sometimes mean 1000 years.

I can see you're very novice when it comes to prophecy, particularly with biblical jargon and idiom. You don't seem to understand the biblical terminologies used in the bible, but this is one way how God does things to hide the mysteries in the bible, and reveals His mysteries only to those He wishes through the holy spirit. Now just because you don't understand biblical lingo, it doesn't mean everyone doesn't understand either.

Nope....."one day is LIKE a thousand years" is a figure of speech (a simile).

Here let's do this again, probably the 5th time now. But that's fine, I know things are hidden from you but we'll keep doing this for others' benefit. Now I've told you Jesus deliberately speaks to those on the outside in parables: figurative language to hide the mysteries of God and of Heaven

No....your smugness does not benefit anyone.

Perhaps, one day soon, before you taste death, and before this generation passes away, you may see that God's promises were kept and fully believe He is faithful and sovereign.

From Oxford Bible church:

LUKE 21: THE OLIVET DISCOURSE OF JESUS - PART 1

Jesus' great prophecy expounds and builds upon Daniel's 70 Weeks.​

The theme of Matthew is Jesus presenting Himself as Israel's MESSIAH-KING, their rejection of Him and the results. This rejection came to a climax in chapter 12 with Jesus casting out a blind and dumb spirit - a MESSIANIC MIRACLE. Their deliberate rejection of Him despite such proof manifested in accusing Him of being able to do this because He was possessed by satan. He warned them of committing the unforgivable sin and told them He would only give them one more sign (chance to believe) - the sign of Jonah - His death and resurrection after 3 days (v39,16:1-4). In a parable where ISRAEL is a HOUSE, He warns them of the coming destruction if they reject Him and refuse to let Him in (v43-45) John cleaned up Israel, but if they reject Christ they will be empty and open for destruction and their last state (dispersion) will be worse than the first (occupation)

Chapter 21 Jesus’ triumphal Entry - He presented Himself as their King
but knew the leaders had rejected Him and so prophesied the resulting destruction coming on Jerusalem (Luke 19:41-44).

Chapter 23 He pronounced woes (judgements) on Israel's leaders for rejecting Him (see v37) concluding:"Your house (the Temple) is left to
you desolate...you will see me no more until you say. "Blessed is He (Messiah) who comes in the name of the Lord" (v38,39). He was signifying that He was turning away from Israel until they receive him as their King.

Chapter 24: "Then Jesus went out and departed from the Temple" (24:1). This action signified the glory leaving the Temple prior to its destruction.

"His disciples came to Him to show Him the buildings of the Temple and Jesus said to them,"See all these things? Verily I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down" (Matthew 24:1,2). This was literally fulfilled in AD 70 when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem. Despite Titus' wishes the Temple was burnt and the molten gold went between all the cracks of the stones so that by the time gold hunters had finished every stone was dismantled! So we see that Jesus is predicting judgement coming upon Israel for rejecting her Messiah.

Now the disciples ask 3 Questions
- the answers to which are the basis of Jesus' famous prophecy.

As well as in Matthew 24, it is in Mark 13 and Luke 21
- we have to combine these three to get the full prophecy.
See the Appendix at the end for a detailed harmonisation.


Matthew 24:3 and Mark 13:4 give the three questions the prophecy answers.
"As he sat on the mount of Olives (looking at the Temple),
the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us,

Question(1): WHEN shall these things (the destruction of the Temple) be? and what shall be the SIGN when all these things come to pass? and

(2) What shall be the SIGN of Your Coming?
(the Coming of Christ marks the ‘telos’ = the final end of the age)and

(3) (the SIGN) of the end ('suntelia' = the consummation, the closing)
of the age?" (this is talking about the TRIBULATION). ‘suntelia’ does not mean the final end like ‘telos’ but a period of time in which things are brought to their conclusion.

The key word here is SIGN. When you travel somewhere you look for signs before your destination that grab your attention and tell you how close you
are to your goal. It is important to know and see the signs of the times.
(In Matthew 16:1-3, Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for failing to discern the signs of the times and thus missing out on what God was doing).


Question 1. They asked for the sign by which they would know the Temple would soon be destroyed.
Question 2. They asked for the signs that would happen before the Second Coming; these are the signs of the final end (‘telos’).
Question 3. They asked for the signs by which we would know that the Tribulation was drawing near. These are the signs of the approach of the end or consummation (‘suntelia’) of the age.

Jesus answered these three questions giving three sets of signs.

He answered Question 1 in Luke 21:20-24: "When YOU SEE Jerusalem surrounded by armies (this is the SIGN) then know her desolation is nigh." The answer to WHEN the Temple would be destroyed was that it would be in the disciples’ generation (it was a judgment on that generation for rejecting Christ). The SIGN they were to look for was the very next time that Jerusalem would be surrounded by armies - then they would know that the destruction was about to happen. This happened when Rome besieged Jerusalem in AD 67. "Then let them in Judaea flee to the mountains; and them in the midst of it depart out; and let not them in the countries enter it. For these be the days of vengeance (on Israel for rejecting her Messiah), that all things written may be fulfilled” (Jesus was providing for the protection of believers in the terrible times predicted by Daniel 9:26).

But how can they escape with Jerusalem surrounded? Due to trouble at Rome, the army pulled back for a time. So most thought things were O.K, but all the Jewish Christians mindful of Jesus' warning, fled to safety in Pella in Jordan. Soon after the Romans returned and destroyed the city and the Temple in AD 70. "But woe to them with child, and them who give suck, in those days! for there shall be great DISTRESS in the land, and wrath (judgement) upon this people and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." ~ Oxford Bible Church - Luke 21: The Olivet Discourse of Jesus - Part 1

 

[mkgal1]

and finally gets to the task of building God's Kingdom on earth, instead of continuing to abdicate that responsibility in favor of their theology of fear-mongering and fanatical escapism.

Spoiler: Off topic

I'm so glad you mentioned this. I began a thread a while back bringing this up (how decent behavior is put off to the future by those with this framework - instead of actually living like Christ NOW ). It seems to give a convenient excuse.

 

[parousia70]

I'm so glad you mentioned this. I began a thread a while back bringing this up (how decent behavior is put off to the future by those with this framework - instead of actually living like Christ NOW ). It seems to give a convenient excuse.

Indeed... and not to continue too far afield, but We are to subdue kingdoms and establish righteousness as the Hebrews 11 heroes did:

Hebrews 11:6, 32-33
for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him...for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions

The Christian Church walks in this great heritage of unstoppable faith just like our Hebrews 11 brothers and sisters. We are in process of subduing kingdoms, establishing righteousness, and asserting Christ's dominion over all nations through the same faith of David, Samuel, Joshua, and Moses had. Nothing can stop us (Matthew 16:18-19).

Its High time we started acting like it.

 

[mkgal1]

Also Jonathen Cahn has written a best selling book called: Paradigm. This is more of a Scientific word. Cahn shows us how the Bible is a Blueprint.

Interesting. That author's name is very close to another author that ALSO wrote about paradigms. His name is Kuhn, and from what I understand, he's the one that popularized the term "paradigm shift".

I've read about it here:

We always become what we behold; the presence that we practice matters. That’s why we desperately need a worldwide paradigm shift in Christian consciousness for how we relate to God. This shift has been subtly yet profoundly underway for some time, hiding in plain sight—the revelation of God as what we have called “Trinity” but have barely understood.

In his book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, Thomas Kuhn popularized the term “paradigm shift.” [1] Kuhn said that paradigm shifts become necessary when the plausibility structure of the previous paradigm becomes so full of holes and patchwork “fixes” that a complete overhaul, which once looked utterly threatening, now appears as a lifeline.

I believe we’re at precisely such a moment when it comes to our images of God. Instead of the idea of Trinity being an abstruse conundrum, it could well end up being the answer to the foundational problem of Western religion.​

Instead of God being the Eternal Threatener, we have God as the Ultimate Participant—in everything—both the good and the painful.

Instead of an Omnipotent Monarch, we see Trinity as the actual and wondrous shape of Divine Reality, which replicates itself in us (see Genesis 1:26) and in “all the array” of creation (see Genesis 2:1).

Instead of God watching life happen from afar and judging it . . .
How about God being inherent in life itself?
How about God being the Life Force of everything?

Instead of God being an Object like any other object . . .
How about God being the Life Energy between each and every object (which we would usually call Love or Spirit)?​

Instead of the small god—usually preoccupied with exclusion—in our current (and dying) paradigm, the Trinitarian Revolution reveals God as totally inclusive and with us in all of life instead of standing on the sidelines, critiquing which things belong and which things don’t. ~ https://cac.org/spiritual-paradigm-shift-2016-09-14/​

 

[joshua 1 9]

Interesting. That author's name is very close to another author that ALSO wrote about paradigms. His name is Kuhn, and from what I understand, he's the one that popularized the term "paradigm shift".

I've read about it here:

We always become what we behold; the presence that we practice matters. That’s why we desperately need a worldwide paradigm shift in Christian consciousness for how we relate to God. This shift has been subtly yet profoundly underway for some time, hiding in plain sight—the revelation of God as what we have called “Trinity” but have barely understood.

In his book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, Thomas Kuhn popularized the term “paradigm shift.” [1] Kuhn said that paradigm shifts become necessary when the plausibility structure of the previous paradigm becomes so full of holes and patchwork “fixes” that a complete overhaul, which once looked utterly threatening, now appears as a lifeline.

I believe we’re at precisely such a moment when it comes to our images of God. Instead of the idea of Trinity being an abstruse conundrum, it could well end up being the answer to the foundational problem of Western religion.​

Instead of God being the Eternal Threatener, we have God as the Ultimate Participant—in everything—both the good and the painful.

Instead of an Omnipotent Monarch, we see Trinity as the actual and wondrous shape of Divine Reality, which replicates itself in us (see Genesis 1:26) and in “all the array” of creation (see Genesis 2:1).

Instead of God watching life happen from afar and judging it . . .
How about God being inherent in life itself?
How about God being the Life Force of everything?

Instead of God being an Object like any other object . . .
How about God being the Life Energy between each and every object (which we would usually call Love or Spirit)? ~ https://cac.org/spiritual-paradigm-shift-2016-09-14/​

Instead of the small god—usually preoccupied with exclusion—in our current (and dying) paradigm, the Trinitarian Revolution reveals God as totally inclusive and with us in all of life instead of standing on the sidelines, critiquing which things belong and which things don’t. ~ https://cac.org/spiritual-paradigm-shift-2016-09-14/​

I did not know the term started with Thomas Kuhn. It is used in something like 38,000 books on Amazon. My first son taught me about Paradigm Shifts back when he was in college.

I just ran a search and Plato used the word Paradigm in a dialogue in a discussion with Socrates and others about the pattern used in the creation of the universe.

Kuhn & Cahn are both "Jewish". This reminds me of the teaching that during a "tribulation" the "Jewish" people will be God's witness to the world. I am surprised how much they know just from the Old Testament. We are told that the latter rain will be greater then the beginning. To produce fruit in due season and bring in the Harvest. A few years ago we struggles to keep up with the early church. Now there is talk that we will pass the early church up in our understanding. When Jesus talks about: "greater works than these shall he do"

Deuteronomy 11:14
then I will provide rain for your land in season, the autumn and spring rains, that you may gather your grain, new wine, and oil.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The text doesn't say 1 day = a 1000 years to God

David says: "Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere". I wonder if this means we can learn as much in one day in Heaven as we learn in 1,000 days here on the Earth. Paul tell us to: "come boldly to the throne of grace:. Hebrews 4:16.

 

[parousia70]

"A day to the Lord is as 1000 years AND 1000 years is as a day"

This is not a mathematical formula for figuring out prophetic time, it is a statement confirming God is outside of time...

The text confirms that to the Lord 1 day in heaven is as 1000 earth years AND 1000 years in heaven is as 1 earth day.

Both are true.

The Psalmist is even more unprecise.

"100 years ARE like yesterday when it is past, or a watch in the night"

This text is especially instructive for us as a Hebrew "watch in the night" lasted from 3-6 hours...

Which totally upends the theory that 1000 earth years = EXACTLY 1 day to God.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[mkgal1]

Exactly.

I think the whole point of the passage in Hosea gets lost if a person zeroes in on trying to make their theories fit (about decoding the "mysteries of God").

ISTM the whole purpose of the Hosea passage is to point back to Psalm 90 where Moses' prayer is recorded ("Lord, you have been our dwelling place throughout all generations.
Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the whole world from everlasting to everlasting you are God" ).

 

[mkgal1]

David says: "Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere". I wonder if this means we can learn as much in one day in Heaven as we learn in 1,000 days here on the Earth. Paul tell us to: "come boldly to the throne of grace:. Hebrews 4:16.

I think it's more than what we can "learn"......I think the glory of His love is indescribable (but that is one way to attempt to express the vastness and extravagance of His glory).

 

[joshua 1 9]

I think it's more than what we can "learn"......I think the glory of His love is indescribable (but that is one way to attempt to express the vastness and extravagance of His glory).

I had a conversation with Paul once. It lasted 3 seconds. 1 1/2 seconds he talked about David's teaching where David used the word "good". Then he spent 1 1/2 seconds explaining his teaching on the word "righteous". After he answered my question - he was curious, he wanted to know why I did not follow his teaching to live my life free from sin? He knew who he was writing to and he is curious to follow up to see how people are receiving what he wrote.

 

[BABerean2]

I had a conversation with Paul once. It lasted 3 seconds. 1 1/2 seconds he talked about David's teaching where David used the word "good". Then he spent 1 1/2 seconds explaining his teaching on the word "righteous". After he answered my question - he was curious, he wanted to know why I did not follow his teaching to live my life free from sin? He knew who he was writing to and he is curious to follow up to see how people are receiving what he wrote.

What does the Bible say about necromancy?

.

 

[ToServe]

Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Jesus is speaking of Death under the Old Covenant. Jesus said those words 40 years before 70AD.

So those standing around him did not need to wait until 70AD to realise Life under the New Covenant of Grace.

That is why from Pentecost onwards, the Spirit of Grace entered the world as the Temple Builder within the New 2nd Temple and within the New form of worship.

Preterist 70AD narrative does not support what Jesus said. Those standing around him were recipients of the message, for the hour is already here for them and not some 40 years later in the future when non of them were around to experience the New Life. As he told the Samaritan woman at the well the hour/time is coming that no longer will a believer look towards Jerusalem.

When did what Jesus say happen?

70AD or from Pentecost onwards?

It happened from Pentecost onwards within the 2nd and Final Holy Spirit Temple Construct.

So what has 70AD got to do with what Jesus said?

Absolutely nothing!

 

[ToServe]

Jesus death under the Old Covenant of the Mosaic Law that condemned all to death by virtue of the Law was replaced by Life under the Tree of Life Jesus Christ who is the Living vine of the Newly estbalished Temple of God, the 2nd and Final Temple spoken of in Zechariah 4:6-7.

Not by might, nor by power, but by my Holy Spirit (Pentecost and onwards), saith the LORD of hosts. Who art thou, O great mountain (Congregation)? before Zerubbabel (God) thou shalt become a plain (Highway of Salvation): and he shall bring forth the headstone (Jesus Christ) thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it (By Grace are we saved by the Holy Spirit of Grace).

Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, The hands of Zerubbabel (God) have laid the foundation of this house (The 2nd and Final Temple after the 1st was destroyed); his (God the Holy Spirit) hands shall also finish it;

Jesus told the Pharisees, destroy this Temple, that is the Temple of Zechariah 4:6-7 and I will rebuild it in three days.

So what was the "hour is coming and now is" when death to those around him within the Old Covenant Mosaic Law will no longer taste death under the Law?

Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone drinking of this water will thirst again; but whoever may drink of the water that I will give him will never thirst, to the age. Instead, the water that I will give to him will become in him a spring of water, welling up into eternal life.”

Life to those who lived to see the hour that is when the Spirit of Grace came on Pentecost to abolish death under the Mosaic Law forever.

Jesus says to her, “Believe Me, woman, that an hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is of the Jews. But an hour is coming and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father also seeks such who worship Him. God is Spirit, and it behooves those worshiping Him to worship in spirit and truth.”

An evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.”

Sign of Jonah was the sign, that is his resurrection was given to those who were around him, who would experience Life under the Covenant of Grace within the 2nd and Final Spirit of Grace Temple Construct and hence no longer taste the death under the totally and permanently abolished Old Covenant under the Mosaic Law.

Truly I say to you, there are some of those standing here who shall not taste of death until they have seen the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Some 40 years in the future 70AD Preterist narrative is not the hour coming and now is. The purpose of Christ's statement is directly related to the sign of Jonah when Zechariah's Temple will finally be realized and established by the Cornerstone and 10 days later by the Temple Builder when he came on Pentecost to begin the building of the Temple until its completion when the Gentiles comes to full numbers as registered in the Book of Life.

The 70AD narrative is an Anti-Thesis eschatological Covenantial doctrine that undermines the power of Christ and the power of God the Holy Spirit.

What has an earthly war spanning 68-75AD (7 years) to do with the Temple of God established 40 years prior. The Temple destroyed in 70AD was never the 2nd Temple of Zechariah 4:6-7 in the first place and Jesus had declared himself as the Temple of God and therefore ruling out a brick and mortar building as The Temple of God.

It is obvious that the sacrifices and oblations under the Pharisaical Priestly administration were removed by Christ's sacrifice once and for all and thereby making those practices after the Cross as abominations to God and so the temple that carried on with those sacrifices and oblations was the temple of doom which did end up in doom and in fulfilment of Daniel's prophesy.

Daniel 9:27
And Jesus Christ shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (70th-week): and in the midst of the week (When Jesus was crucified) Jesus Christ shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the continued practices of these abominations Jesus shall make them desolate, even until their consummation (END), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate house (Pharisaical Priestly Administration) around 70AD.

The sacked priestly administration was made a desolate house when Jesus ascended up on high to the Ancient of Days (The Father) to receive Power, Glory, Honour and an Everlasting Kingdom of Daniel 2:44.

The Old Testament prophets foretold of what will happen to the Old Covenant Priestly Administration by Eliakim foreshadowing figure of a future event sanctioned by God through his Messiah to come within Daniel's 70th week.

Eliakim ironically is a foreshadow figure whose name means "The Resurrection of God" which points to the Messiah within the context of the Sign of Jonah and the building of the 2nd and Final Temple of God.

Another irony is that Eliakim is the son of another foreshadow figure Hilkiah and Hilkiah means "God is my portion" which makes the Messiah the Son of God revealed in the meaning of the name Hilkiah through Old Testament prophesies who merely played roles as a foreshadow before the main event so to speak and King David and others were only playing roles that were not theirs but pointed to the Messiah to come.

Listen to this prophesy it buzzes the mind indeed!

The Cornerstone that the builders rejected has become their obstacle, sacking and judgement in spades (Mathew 21:42).

“Beware, the Lord is about to take firm hold of you and hurl you away, you mighty man.

God is speaking to the foreshadow figure Shebna that represents the Old Covenant Priestly Administration. Ironically meaning of the name Shebna is one who rests himself meaning relieves himself of his duties and is carried off captive. This correctly portrays the Pharisaical priestly administration that was relieved of their office and went off captive and was driven out by force and their temple of doom burnt down.

Let us look at scripture in Isaiah 22:15-25 that points to Jesus.

He will roll you up tightly like a ball and throw you into a large country. There you will die and there the chariots you were so proud of will become a disgrace to your master’s house.

God presents that the outcast Pharisaical priestly administration became a disgrace to God and his Christ.

I will depose you from your office, and you will be ousted from your position.

This is the sacking of Shebna a foreshadow figure to the Pharisaical priesthood who was sacked by God and replaced by Eliakim who foreshadowed the Christ who would take over the priesthood in a permanent and none transferable Priesthood of Melchizedek.

“In that day I will summon my servant, Eliakim son of Hilkiah.

That Day is the coming of Messiah off-course!

I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a father to those who live in Jerusalem and to the people of Judah.

This is the Kingly Royal Priesthood of Melchizedek which belongs to Jesus Christ only and not the shadow figure portrayed in the Old Testament in the role play.

I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.

These are the Keys given to the Messiah only within the 2nd and Final Holy Spirit Temple Construct and not to those playing the part in the role play.

I will drive him like a peg into a firm place; he will become a seat of honor for the house of his father.

This peg is the unmovable rock who is the Christ and not the shadow figure playing the part in the role play.

All the glory of his family will hang on him: its offspring and offshoots—all its lesser vessels, from the bowls to all the jars.

All Glory hang on Eliakim the person playing the part in the roleplay?

Absolutely not!

This Glory hangs on the Messiah who is to come that the Glory belongs to.

“In that day,” declares the Lord Almighty, “the peg driven into the firm place will give way; it will be sheared off and will fall, and the load hanging on it will be cut down.” The Lord has spoken.

This is exactly what Jesus said about himself (Matthew 21:44) and guess what happened to the Old Covenant priestly administration?

It did not hang around for 40 years, it was sacked immediately at Christ's ascension when the temple veil was torn to signal the sacking of Shebna the shadow figure of the Old Priestly Administration.

 

[One Son]

Jesus death under the Old Covenant of the Mosaic Law that condemned all to death by virtue of the Law was replaced by Life under the Tree of Life Jesus Christ who is the Living vine of the Newly estbalished Temple of God, the 2nd and Final Temple spoken of in Zechariah 4:6-7.

Not by might, nor by power, but by my Holy Spirit (Pentecost and onwards), saith the LORD of hosts. Who art thou, O great mountain (Congregation)? before Zerubbabel (God) thou shalt become a plain (Highway of Salvation): and he shall bring forth the headstone (Jesus Christ) thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it (By Grace are we saved by the Holy Spirit of Grace).

Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, The hands of Zerubbabel (God) have laid the foundation of this house (The 2nd and Final Temple after the 1st was destroyed); his (God the Holy Spirit) hands shall also finish it;

Jesus told the Pharisees, destroy this Temple, that is the Temple of Zechariah 4:6-7 and I will rebuild it in three days.

So what was the "hour is coming and now is" when death to those around him within the Old Covenant Mosaic Law will no longer taste death under the Law?

Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone drinking of this water will thirst again; but whoever may drink of the water that I will give him will never thirst, to the age. Instead, the water that I will give to him will become in him a spring of water, welling up into eternal life.”

Life to those who lived to see the hour that is when the Spirit of Grace came on Pentecost to abolish death under the Mosaic Law forever.

Jesus says to her, “Believe Me, woman, that an hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is of the Jews. But an hour is coming and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father also seeks such who worship Him. God is Spirit, and it behooves those worshiping Him to worship in spirit and truth.”

An evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.”

Sign of Jonah was the sign, that is his resurrection was given to those who were around him, who would experience Life under the Covenant of Grace within the 2nd and Final Spirit of Grace Temple Construct and hence no longer taste the death under the totally and permanently abolished Old Covenant under the Mosaic Law.

Truly I say to you, there are some of those standing here who shall not taste of death until they have seen the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Some 40 years in the future 70AD Preterist narrative is not the hour coming and now is. The purpose of Christ's statement is directly related to the sign of Jonah when Zechariah's Temple will finally be realized and established by the Cornerstone and 10 days later by the Temple Builder when he came on Pentecost to begin the building of the Temple until its completion when the Gentiles comes to full numbers as registered in the Book of Life.

The 70AD narrative is an Anti-Thesis eschatological Covenantial doctrine that undermines the power of Christ and the power of God the Holy Spirit.

What has an earthly war spanning 68-75AD (7 years) to do with the Temple of God established 40 years prior. The Temple destroyed in 70AD was never the 2nd Temple of Zechariah 4:6-7 in the first place and Jesus had declared himself as the Temple of God and therefore ruling out a brick and mortar building as The Temple of God.

It is obvious that the sacrifices and oblations under the Pharisaical Priestly administration were removed by Christ's sacrifice once and for all and thereby making those practices after the Cross as abominations to God and so the temple that carried on with those sacrifices and oblations was the temple of doom which did end up in doom and in fulfilment of Daniel's prophesy.

Daniel 9:27
And Jesus Christ shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (70th-week): and in the midst of the week (When Jesus was crucified) Jesus Christ shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the continued practices of these abominations Jesus shall make them desolate, even until their consummation (END), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate house (Pharisaical Priestly Administration) around 70AD.

The sacked priestly administration was made a desolate house when Jesus ascended up on high to the Ancient of Days (The Father) to receive Power, Glory, Honour and an Everlasting Kingdom of Daniel 2:44.

The Old Testament prophets foretold of what will happen to the Old Covenant Priestly Administration by Eliakim foreshadowing figure of a future event sanctioned by God through his Messiah to come within Daniel's 70th week.

Eliakim ironically is a foreshadow figure whose name means "The Resurrection of God" which points to the Messiah within the context of the Sign of Jonah and the building of the 2nd and Final Temple of God.

Another irony is that Eliakim is the son of another foreshadow figure Hilkiah and Hilkiah means "God is my portion" which makes the Messiah the Son of God revealed in the meaning of the name Hilkiah through Old Testament prophesies who merely played roles as a foreshadow before the main event so to speak and King David and others were only playing roles that were not theirs but pointed to the Messiah to come.

Listen to this prophesy it buzzes the mind indeed!

The Cornerstone that the builders rejected has become their obstacle, sacking and judgement in spades (Mathew 21:42).

“Beware, the Lord is about to take firm hold of you and hurl you away, you mighty man.

God is speaking to the foreshadow figure Shebna that represents the Old Covenant Priestly Administration. Ironically meaning of the name Shebna is one who rests himself meaning relieves himself of his duties and is carried off captive. This correctly portrays the Pharisaical priestly administration that was relieved of their office and went off captive and was driven out by force and their temple of doom burnt down.

Let us look at scripture in Isaiah 22:15-25 that points to Jesus.



God presents that the outcast Pharisaical priestly administration became a disgrace to God and his Christ.



This is the sacking of Shebna a foreshadow figure to the Pharisaical priesthood who was sacked by God and replaced by Eliakim who foreshadowed the Christ who would take over the priesthood in a permanent and none transferable Priesthood of Melchizedek.



That Day is the coming of Messiah off-course!



This is the Kingly Royal Priesthood of Melchizedek which belongs to Jesus Christ only and not the shadow figure portrayed in the Old Testament in the role play.



These are the Keys given to the Messiah only within the 2nd and Final Holy Spirit Temple Construct and not to those playing the part in the role play.



This peg is the unmovable rock who is the Christ and not the shadow figure playing the part in the role play.



All Glory hang on Eliakim the person playing the part in the roleplay?

Absolutely not!

This Glory hangs on the Messiah who is to come that the Glory belongs to.



This is exactly what Jesus said about himself (Matthew 21:44) and guess what happened to the Old Covenant priestly administration?

It did not hang around for 40 years, it was sacked immediately at Christ's ascension when the temple veil was torn to signal the sacking of Shebna the shadow figure of the Old Priestly Administration.

Good post.

Jer.3:16And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more. 17At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.




And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
(Gen.15:5)

 

[ToServe]

Good post.

Jer.3:16And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more. 17At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.




And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
(Gen.15:5)

Amen!

Everything points to Jesus Christ and the 2nd and Final Temple of God of Zechariah 4 and the form of worship in the spirit.

From when the 1st Temple was destroyed the Ark of the Covenant went missing and from that point onwards the prophesy certainly came true in that “they shall say no more the Ark of the Covenant of the Lord, neither shall it come to mind.”

The ascension of Jesus Christ made The Son of Man the recipient of Daniel 2:44. The hour of Life through the Holy Spirit of Grace had come to redeem those who came to the Tree of Life to inherit Life Eternity, whereby the breach in the Garden was repaired right there and then and God’s wager against the Serpent came true when God said

I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. (Genesis 3:15)

 

[Seville90210]

Just because I believe in the theology that Jesus fulfilled all He said He would in His time (that "it is finished" like He said on the cross) - that He can be trusted to be faithful and sovereign - doesn't mean I "don't understand" or that "it's hidden from" me.

The text doesn't say 1 day = a 1000 years to God (and you're reading that backwards, anyway. It speaks to the swiftness of time....not a stalling or delay of time).


......you aren't me, so I'll thank you not to offer me advice on "trying to understand the Bible" and "trying to understand God". But since you're offering advice, I assume you're willing to take it: maybe you should focus on the following chapter in Matthew.

My point in bringing up 1 Peter 1:6 was that Peter used language that framed time in proper proportion.



Nope....."one day is LIKE a thousand years" is a figure of speech (a simile).


No....your smugness does not benefit anyone.

Perhaps, one day soon, before you taste death, and before this generation passes away, you may see that God's promises were kept and fully believe He is faithful and sovereign.

From Oxford Bible church:

LUKE 21: THE OLIVET DISCOURSE OF JESUS - PART 1

Jesus' great prophecy expounds and builds upon Daniel's 70 Weeks.​

The theme of Matthew is Jesus presenting Himself as Israel's MESSIAH-KING, their rejection of Him and the results. This rejection came to a climax in chapter 12 with Jesus casting out a blind and dumb spirit - a MESSIANIC MIRACLE. Their deliberate rejection of Him despite such proof manifested in accusing Him of being able to do this because He was possessed by satan. He warned them of committing the unforgivable sin and told them He would only give them one more sign (chance to believe) - the sign of Jonah - His death and resurrection after 3 days (v39,16:1-4). In a parable where ISRAEL is a HOUSE, He warns them of the coming destruction if they reject Him and refuse to let Him in (v43-45) John cleaned up Israel, but if they reject Christ they will be empty and open for destruction and their last state (dispersion) will be worse than the first (occupation)

Chapter 21 Jesus’ triumphal Entry - He presented Himself as their King
but knew the leaders had rejected Him and so prophesied the resulting destruction coming on Jerusalem (Luke 19:41-44).

Chapter 23 He pronounced woes (judgements) on Israel's leaders for rejecting Him (see v37) concluding:"Your house (the Temple) is left to
you desolate...you will see me no more until you say. "Blessed is He (Messiah) who comes in the name of the Lord" (v38,39). He was signifying that He was turning away from Israel until they receive him as their King.

Chapter 24: "Then Jesus went out and departed from the Temple" (24:1). This action signified the glory leaving the Temple prior to its destruction.

"His disciples came to Him to show Him the buildings of the Temple and Jesus said to them,"See all these things? Verily I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down" (Matthew 24:1,2). This was literally fulfilled in AD 70 when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem. Despite Titus' wishes the Temple was burnt and the molten gold went between all the cracks of the stones so that by the time gold hunters had finished every stone was dismantled! So we see that Jesus is predicting judgement coming upon Israel for rejecting her Messiah.

Now the disciples ask 3 Questions
- the answers to which are the basis of Jesus' famous prophecy.

As well as in Matthew 24, it is in Mark 13 and Luke 21
- we have to combine these three to get the full prophecy.
See the Appendix at the end for a detailed harmonisation.


Matthew 24:3 and Mark 13:4 give the three questions the prophecy answers.
"As he sat on the mount of Olives (looking at the Temple),
the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us,

Question(1): WHEN shall these things (the destruction of the Temple) be? and what shall be the SIGN when all these things come to pass? and

(2) What shall be the SIGN of Your Coming?
(the Coming of Christ marks the ‘telos’ = the final end of the age)and

(3) (the SIGN) of the end ('suntelia' = the consummation, the closing)
of the age?" (this is talking about the TRIBULATION). ‘suntelia’ does not mean the final end like ‘telos’ but a period of time in which things are brought to their conclusion.

The key word here is SIGN. When you travel somewhere you look for signs before your destination that grab your attention and tell you how close you
are to your goal. It is important to know and see the signs of the times.
(In Matthew 16:1-3, Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for failing to discern the signs of the times and thus missing out on what God was doing).


Question 1. They asked for the sign by which they would know the Temple would soon be destroyed.
Question 2. They asked for the signs that would happen before the Second Coming; these are the signs of the final end (‘telos’).
Question 3. They asked for the signs by which we would know that the Tribulation was drawing near. These are the signs of the approach of the end or consummation (‘suntelia’) of the age.

Jesus answered these three questions giving three sets of signs.

He answered Question 1 in Luke 21:20-24: "When YOU SEE Jerusalem surrounded by armies (this is the SIGN) then know her desolation is nigh." The answer to WHEN the Temple would be destroyed was that it would be in the disciples’ generation (it was a judgment on that generation for rejecting Christ). The SIGN they were to look for was the very next time that Jerusalem would be surrounded by armies - then they would know that the destruction was about to happen. This happened when Rome besieged Jerusalem in AD 67. "Then let them in Judaea flee to the mountains; and them in the midst of it depart out; and let not them in the countries enter it. For these be the days of vengeance (on Israel for rejecting her Messiah), that all things written may be fulfilled” (Jesus was providing for the protection of believers in the terrible times predicted by Daniel 9:26).

But how can they escape with Jerusalem surrounded? Due to trouble at Rome, the army pulled back for a time. So most thought things were O.K, but all the Jewish Christians mindful of Jesus' warning, fled to safety in Pella in Jordan. Soon after the Romans returned and destroyed the city and the Temple in AD 70. "But woe to them with child, and them who give suck, in those days! for there shall be great DISTRESS in the land, and wrath (judgement) upon this people and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." ~ Oxford Bible Church - Luke 21: The Olivet Discourse of Jesus - Part 1

Well, what if I tell you I apologize. I'll pray for you and hope when Jesus returns, He'll lead and guide you better than I have tried.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Jesus did say that 'this' generation will not pass:

Matthew 24:34
34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place.

Yes.
It is mentioned in all 3 Gospels of the Olivet Discourse

"THIS GENERATION" in Bible

Matthew 24:34
Amen I am saying to ye,
not no may be passing-away the generation, this-one, till ever all these may be becoming.
amhn legw umin
ou mh parelqh h genea auth ewV an panta tauta genhtai

Mark 13:30
Amen I am saying to ye,
that not no may be passing-away the generation, this-one, unto of which any these all may be becoming
amhn legw umin
oti ou mh parelqh h genea auth mecriV ou panta tauta genhtai

Luke 21:32
“Amen I am saying to ye,
not no may be passing-away the generation, this-one, till ever all things may be becoming.

 

[iamlamad]

So your claim is that God doesn't know how to tell time correctly and is unable to communicate its passing to humans in terms we can understand?

Not at all. None of us will live a thousand years in our natural bodies - but to God it is as a day is to us. Therefore "short" to God may be a day or two. It has been 2000 years and still has not come - but what is two days to God?

 

[parousia70]

Not at all. None of us will live a thousand years in our natural bodies - but to God it is as a day is to us. Therefore "short" to God may be a day or two. It has been 2000 years and still has not come - but what is two days to God?

Could not God also make one earth day seem like 1000 years to Him then?

That's what the text indicates:
2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Peter is not saying the same thing twice... he is setting up two POLAR OPPOSITES that are BOTH TRUE.

To God, One "God Day" is as 1000 earth years AND "1000 God years" are as One earth Day.