There Are a Thousand Gods. Is It Impossible To Make Choices?

[Freodin]

But you aren´t the only one here who is reading,sir...so what may not have an effect on you, could have an effect on someone else..

But I appreciate what you have said, and I understand what you are saying...

There is only ONE GOD, and this response stemmed from the heading of this thread...

I am certain that a lot of people who are reading unsubstantiatied claims will be totally convinced by them. Because that is the way it works.

They see someone making a claim, be called out on the claim, repeating the claim without any backing, any explanation, any...thing... and they just think "Wow... this must be THE TRUTH." (/snark)


Well... that is exactly why I responded in kind. I make an unsubstantiated claim: "There is no god. No Christian God, no Islamic God, no Hebrew God, no Hindu, Buddhist(certain variants), Norse, Incan or any of the thousands of other religion's gods. None of them exist." For emphasis's sake, I will even add: "And this is the truth. The one truth, that is true."

This is an unsubstantiated claim. I don't expect anyone to be impressed or convinced by it. I really don't mean it. I have other, different, better way to explain my disbelief in Christianity or any other religion.

But someone this doesn't seem to interest anyone. As long as they can claim: "Well, I have the TRUTH... here is a quote from the Bible that says so."

See... this is why it is do difficult to engage with believers, with people like you. Because you are dogmatic, not reasonable.
Just because this forum allows Christians to act in this way, but prohibits anyone else doesn't make it better, or "true". It's just a form of self-affirmation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If I post the scriptures it shows YOU that it isn´t ¨my claim¨

It appears that you are blaming your god for your behavior here. That appears to be throwing him under the bus. If he exists I doubt if he would appreciate that.

 

[Freodin]

People believe whatever they want to believe .... some state "reasons" ... some have no reasons at all.

Christianity is one of many beliefs .... believe it ... or don't .... and that is exactly how Jesus works .... accept Him ... or not .... it's not a forced issue with Him. You can't force someone to love another ... we know that ... God knows that.

You cannot force someone to love another... but if you want another's love, it would be extremly helpful to have ways to make them aware of your existence.

No one here is forced to love my sister... even though she is the most lovable character that ever lived, and I am speaking from experience here.

But she doesn't post here, no one here knows that she exists... so no one has the chance to love her.

Well... now you know that she exists - so... on what basis would you proclaim your love for her? My statement that she is the most lovable character? The Christian commandment that you are to love everyone? How can "love" exist on such a basis?

 

[eleos1954]

You cannot force someone to love another... but if you want another's love, it would be extremly helpful to have ways to make them aware of your existence.

No one here is forced to love my sister... even though she is the most lovable character that ever lived, and I am speaking from experience here.

But she doesn't post here, no one here knows that she exists... so no one has the chance to love her.

Well... now you know that she exists - so... on what basis would you proclaim your love for her? My statement that she is the most lovable character? The Christian commandment that you are to love everyone? How can "love" exist on such a basis?

It is the Father's will that all come to know Him and love Him and the Son. We pray ... now that I am aware of your sister I will pray for her ... we pray for the entire world to come to know Jesus ... we are to pray for our enemies to come to know the Lord ... praying for people does not mean one has to personally know them .... we pray all in the world will come to know the love of the Lord.

Unconditional love ... is what the Lord does and teaches ... difficult for us humans to do ... or perhaps even really comprehend ... but we do endeavor to do so ;o)

 

[Freodin]

It is the Father's will that all come to know Him and love Him and the Son. We pray ... now that I am aware of your sister I will pray for her ... we pray for the entire world to come to know Jesus ... we are to pray for our enemies to come to know the Lord ... praying for people does not mean one has to personally know them .... we pray all in the world will come to know the love of the Lord.

Unconditional love ... is what the Lord does and teaches ... difficult for us humans to do ... or perhaps even really comprehend ... but we do endeavor to do so ;o)

You pray. For my sister. Because now you are aware of her. Because I told you. But you don't don't have to personally know her. And you still don't. Know her. At all.

All you have is my assertion that my sister is a really nice person. I could send you a photo. I could arrange a meeting.
Would that make you "love" her?

See... you "pray all in the world will come to know the love of the Lord". But people don't. They don't get to know "The Lord". "The Lord" doesn't seem to care about them. He never calls, he never visits. All we ever get are people telling us about him.

He's like my sister. She's a really outgoing and friendly person. She wants to get to know everyone. She wants to be friends with everyone.
She doesn't go out much. She's not into writing. She doesn't have online-accounts on facebook, or a profile on ChristianForums.

All she has is me. Telling you she wants to be friends with you.

So, do you love her now?

 

[eleos1954]

You pray. For my sister. Because now you are aware of her. Because I told you. But you don't don't have to personally know here. And you still don't. Know her. At all.

All you have is my assertion that my sister is a really nice person. I could send you a photo. I could arrange a meeting.
Would that make you "love" her?

See... you "pray all in the world will come to know the love of the Lord". But people don't. They don't get to know "The Lord". "The Lord" doesn't seem to care about them. He never calls, he never visits. All we ever get are people telling us about him.

He's like my sister. She's a really outgoing and friendly person. She wants to get to know everyone. She wants to be friends with everyone.
She doesn't go out much. She's not into writing. She doesn't have online-accounts on facebook, or a profile on ChristianForums.

All she has is me. Telling you she wants to be friends with you.

So, do you love her now?

See... you "pray all in the world will come to know the love of the Lord". But people don't. They don't get to know "The Lord".

Yes ... sadly this is true ... but it is by their choice ... the Lord is always there to receive those who choose to come to Him.

Revelation 3:20

20Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in and dine with him, and he with Me. 21To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

He knocks on everyone's door ... if one does not open the door ... He's not going to Kick it in.

Invite your sister on here ... I would be her friend if she would like to be friends.

and I'll pray for both you and her to come to know the Lord.

 

[miknik5]

It appears that you are blaming your god for your behavior here. That appears to be throwing him under the bus. If he exists I doubt if he would appreciate that.

Wow

 

[Subduction Zone]

Wow

Why "wow"? It seriously looks as if you are blaming God for your behavior. But then many Christians are blind to certain aspects of their religion. For example those that take Genesis at all literally are in effect calling their God a liar, they simply lack the education that would enable them to see this.

 

[miknik5]

Why "wow"? It seriously looks as if you are blaming God for your behavior. But then many Christians are blind to certain aspects of their religion. For example those that take Genesis at all literally are in effect calling their God a liar, they simply lack the education that would enable them to see this.

What is my behavior, sir? I have not lied, nor do I have to defend my claim any further than what I have said already...


There is ONE GOD and ONE TRUTH...regardless of how many claim (their claim) that there are thousands...

There isn´t.

There are many spirits yes...but there is only ONE HOLY SPIRIT of GOD...and those who know and have heard HIS VOICE/SPIRIT, are able to discern the spirits of lies from the SPIRIT of TRUTH...for the truth is that GOD, by sending HIS SON into the world, made a distinction between THE ONE TRUTH...and the little lies and suggestions and opinions and imaginings and notions of truth(s)....of many lying spirits who know nothing but to lie and to twist and to distort and to suggest imitations of partial truth(s)...

 

[miknik5]

In fact, there really is nothing else to discuss for me on this thread...so you are right...I am leaving this thread...but I am certainly not going away....

 

[Freodin]

Yes ... sadly this is true ... but it is by their choice ... the Lord is always there to receive those who choose to come to Him.

Revelation 3:20

20Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in and dine with him, and he with Me. 21To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

He knocks on everyone's door ... if one does not open the door ... He's not going to Kick it in.

See... and here we are just at the point of contention.
He doesn't knock. He wouldn't need to "kick it in". A knock would suffice... but he doesn't. All he does is sending people like you.

Invite your sister on here ... I would be her friend if she would like to be friends.

See... and here you are, demanding that my sister conforms to your rules! How dare you! She doesn't force you to be her friend.
Perhaps she already tried to be friends with you... and you ignored her. Would you know? How would you know? Before my post... you didn't even know of my sister.

But maybe this will make you consider this: yes, if she would like to be friends, it would be reasonable for her to make the first step. To come to you. To introduce herself to you.
She didn't, I know that.

So... maybe you see my point now?

and I'll pray for both you and her to come to know the Lord.

I'll add you to the list. Don't be disappointed if your prayers will do as much as those of all the other people.

 

[thomas_t]

Neither did I ... I was referring to the alleged "authority of the many" which you seemed to reference by using the words "worldwide", "globalisation", etc.

my point was that a loving God would be trying to reach the nations. I assumed that there would be or in fact is some kind of attempt by a loving God to reach people in times of globalization to make it a worldwide religion.
The attempt is what counts here, as I see it. Love, in my opinion, means attempting to reach out to help.
This is different from any "authority of the many" concept, I think. God shoulod remain the highest authority as I see it.

 

[Freodin]

my point was that a loving God would be trying to reach the nations. I assumed that there would be or in fact is some kind of attempt by a loving God to reach people in times of globalization to make it a worldwide religion.
The attempt is what counts here, as I see it. Love, in my opinion, means attempting to reach out to help.
This is different from any "authority of the many" concept, I think. God shoulod remain tha highest authority as I see it.

But the problem here is that is isn't "a loving God" trying to reach the nations. It is the followers of this "loving God" who do that. And they are limited in their approach to human means, human minds and human mistakes.
Wouldn't you think that "a loving God" could and should do a lot better in his outreach?

 

[Not David]

Careful everybody.

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[thomas_t]

But the problem here is that is isn't "a loving God" trying to reach the nations. It is the followers of this "loving God" who do that. And they are limited in their approach to human means, human minds and human mistakes.
Wouldn't you think that "a loving God" could and should do a lot better in his outreach?

you say it doesn't count that much if only His followers try to reach you?
why not? are the followers stupid?
Reaching out are tasks that can be accomplished by his followers, also. Why shouldn't they do the work. They are friendly persons (at least 50% of them, if not more...).
I'm convinced: God is a very loving God!

 

[ananda]

my point was that a loving God would be trying to reach the nations. I assumed that there would be or in fact is some kind of attempt by a loving God to reach people in times of globalization to make it a worldwide religion.
The attempt is what counts here, as I see it. Love, in my opinion, means attempting to reach out to help.
This is different from any "authority of the many" concept, I think. God shoulod remain the highest authority as I see it.

I see the greatest expression of compassion in the figure of the Buddha who helped us through his personal example, which is one major reason I made the choice for that Path.

 

[Freodin]

you say it doesn't count that much if only His followers try to reach you?
why not? are the followers stupid?
Reaching out are tasks that can be accomplished by his followers, also. Why shouldn't they do the work. They are friendly persons (at least 50% of them, if not more...).
I'm convinced: God is a very loving God!

The followers are human. And humans get things wrong, even with the best intentions.

Consider: there are also a lot of "followers of a loving God" who are out to "reach you"... who promote a different idea of this loving God. There are those who promote a view of such a deity that directly contradicts yours. Most of them are "very friendly persons". Some are not. Some are... quite the opposite.

Again I ask: shouldn't and couldn't a "loving God" do much better than relying on human beings who are known and shown to be very very fallible, even in the best circumstances?

 

[thomas_t]

Consider: there are also a lot of "followers of a loving God" who are out to "reach you"... who promote a different idea of this loving God.

then you need to test them. Go ask the Muslims what their faith is about, The Christians, the ... . And then make your choices. Choose world religions first, I suggest.

Again I ask: shouldn't and couldn't a "loving God" do much better than relying on human beings who are known and shown to be very very fallible, even in the best circumstances?

A good God knows how to work with his sheep, I think. As fallible as they may be.

 

[Freodin]

then you need to test them. Go ask the Muslims what their faith is about, The Christians, the ... . And then make your choices. Choose world religions first, I suggest.

So, which kind of "test" do you propose?
Consider... I have been here on this forum alone for almost twenty years. I have been engaged in conversations with Christians (mostly), Muslims (less often) and adherents of other religions (sporadically) for years, even decades, before that. I have read about different faiths. I have read apologetic material. I have read the rebuttals to apologetic material. I have talked to priests and laypersons.

I have tried "tests". I am constantly "testing". I have tested you here.

I have met nice people and not-so-nice people. Intelligent people and stupid people. Trolls and sincere believers. All in all, I'd say a good mix of examples of the Homo Sapiens.

But I haven't found a single shred of convincing evidence for the existing of a deity. Nothing that could not be explained - a lot better - simply by humans beings humans. Or nature being nature.

The only "potentially supernatural" thing I have ever encountered in my life was definitly not divine. Nor was it "demonic" or anything of that sort. It was just weird... and while I do not have a complete explanation, it still can be explained by solely natural means. I still like to keep it back in reserve as a "test" for wannabe prophets.

So, if you have some kind of "test" that I haven't tried, that hasn't been proposed to me many many times before... feel free to add your suggestion.

And consider: while I might have been a life-long atheist, others here have been convinced, sincere, faithful Christians at one point in their life. Who at some point found out that the object of their faith was... missing. For many of them, it was a hard and painful process to find their faith failing. I think they have "tested" quite thoroughly.

But, again, I am nothing but willing to try out new things... or old ones again.

A good God knows how to work with his sheep, I think. As fallible as they may be.

First, there doesn't seem to be any difference between a "good God" using his fallible "sheep" in mysterious ways... and a God who simply doesn't exist, and a lot of sheep ambling on their own.

Second, I very much despise this term... "sheep". I know that it hold some relevance in Jewish and Christian parlance... but you may want to consider the basis of the relationship between sheep and shepherds.

 

[cloudyday2]

Argumentum ad populum. Even your chosen scriptures preach against this view: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few." Mt 7:13,14 (RSV)

That seemed like a good point to me.