You have overloaded your reply with unrelated scriptures and gone off in different directions while failing to defend any of the doctrines you hold to.
I was setting you straight concerning my belief that you are promoting to others..
"First of all, you're presuming that the words "death" or "dead" or "die", all mean annihilation or ceasing to exist in the Bible."
I was showing you God's Inspired Words that I believe, which show that in "death", the kind all mortal humans come to experience, we cease to think, do anything or know anything. But as I said, something exists as God will raise up who I am, just as HE will raise up who Adam was, and judge them according to that which they had done, "before" this death.
It seems important to seek the understanding of "God's teaching" concerning the death that "ALL" mortal humans shall enter, for all have sinned, except One.
Not sure how it is that you've never come across --- Genesis 2:17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die".
I believe in this perfectly. And in my view, God's prophesy shown to us here, has surely come to pass as both Adam and Eve did die, and remain dead just as God Promised them. I have no reason to question God concerning the moment this destiny was placed on them. Clearly it happened when they "Ate" that which God commanded them not to eat.
I'm not sure why you would imply that I never came across this, clearly my posts would inform you otherwise, had you read them..
God said, for "in the day you eat of it you shall surely die". They ate and they died on that day, according to God. But you deny they died so you reject what God said.
I believe what is written;
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and "they knew that they were naked"; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
Clearly the "death"
this God was speaking to, isn't the "death"
you are speaking to. This is shown pretty clearly in the Scriptures I posted, that you judged as irrelevant.
Ecc. 9:
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Perhaps if you were to be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and join yourself to this God, as Jesus promotes, you will come to be on the same page with Him concerning Adam and Eve. Of course, it is a choice you must make.
Gods Word says we are all born dead, but you say we are not, so again you reject what God says because it obviously doesn't fit your denomination's interpretation of Gods Word.
Can you show me the Scriptures where it is said that God is the God of the Dead, and not the Living? Please show me where God teaches in His Word that all human children are "born dead".
I am a student of of His Word, but I have never seen where Jesus is the Lord of the Dead, or that God is the God of the dead. Perhaps you might consider to start listening to the Jesus "of the Bible", and turn away from the religious system of this world.
John 8:
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye "believe not" that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Luke 13:
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
If they were already "dead", as defined by the Spirit of Christ that was in the Author of Ecclesiastics, then how can they "Believe" or "repent" or "turn to God"?
Clearly, if a man doesn't do these things,
in the time a longsuffering, Patient and Merciful God gives them, after they sinned, they shall surely die.
As this same God teaches you, if you would just believe Him.
Ez. 18:
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
21 "But if" the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
In your religion, isn't this good news? And who make this possible?
So your teacher was either willing or unwittingly omitting key bible doctrines.
My God isn't the God of the Dead, but the God of the Living. Your god creates dead people. I can say for certain that the Holy Scriptures do not represent your god.
Then you attempted to make Ecc 9:4 something entirely different to what was written. You assumed it was referring to "death" as in the life after this earthly life, "the dead know nothing" doesn't ,mean those in the graves know nothing.
Well I, and David, and Isaiah disagree with your religious philosophy. And in all due respect, the Spirit of Christ that inspired these Prophets teach me about death, this Christ died, but you have never died. So it seems to me that I would be better off Trusting the God that Inspired the bible, than to trust you or this world's religions you have adopted, given you don't believe the graves of this world are filled with dead people that don't even know they are dead.
How about the living dead right here and now, they know nothing because unbelievers are spiritually dead and thewy know nothing about the things of God.
"Living dead", God creates "dead people"! Are you actually listening to your own preaching here? If a person that is spiritually dead, can never "know anything" about God, then you, who you preach to the world was born dead, have no hope?
You can just run with everything you read in the bible, as if it was some kind of cooking book with simple recipes outlined in plain English. Each Bible doctrine must be in perfect harmony with the rest of scripture, there must never be any contradictions.
This is true.
But what I read from you is consistent contradictions in your theology.
Please understand that you have already miss-represented my beliefs and posts on a public forum. So it would be foolish to just ignore Scriptures, and take your word for it. Perhaps if you were to show me where my posts contradict my theology, this would be more helpful.
What do you suppose Jesus was talking about in ---
Luke 9:60 Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and preach the kingdom of God.”
John 8:
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Luke 9:
59 And he said unto another, "Follow me". But he said, Lord, "suffer me first" to go and bury my father.
60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
61 And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but "let me first" go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.
62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
So let these men who refuse to repent and turn to God, who will die in their sins, bury others who also refuse to repent, who will die in their sins.
But if these unrepentant men would humble themselves, while they are still alive, and "yield themselves" to God in repentance, and "Follow the Jesus" of the Bible, they will still die, but Jesus Promises to raise them from the dead, and give them the gift of eternal life.
Abraham was given the same instruction.
Gen. 12:
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of "thy country", and from "thy kindred", and from "thy father's house", unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. 4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.
You might notice that Abraham didn't say, "Wait God", I will follow you, but let me first go back and honor my earthly father".
Instead of using a verse here and there to justify an adopted religion, perhaps you might consider turning away from the religion of your fathers, and Follow Jesus' instruction. "Seek ye FIRST the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness". And let this world's religious promoters bury this world's religious promoters.
Here you are claiming the "dead" cease to exist" but Jesus is saying the dead can dig deep holes and bury their dead. Whom shall I believe, you or Jesus, since you contradict each other.
Clearly, even my 12 year old grandson can see that these men were destined to death, and not already dead. Just as Jesus teaches, "You shall die in your sins". In your religion, Jesus was talking about men who refused to eat His Flesh, Yes? Men who have "No life" in them? And what of Jesus' Words to the rich man?
Matt. 19:
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but "if thou wilt enter into life", keep the commandments.
And concerning Lazarus;
John 11:
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Did the dead bury the dead here?
The problem and difference here between us is that you are here to justify your religion, and you cherry pick Scriptures for that purpose, as is clearly evident. While I, a no body, am seeking to know God, as Jesus wanted, that I might grow in the knowledge of God. To do this, it is imperative to consider "ALL" that is written.
Why don't you list all the different meanings of the words "death" "die" "dead" and lets see if your interpretations are actually supported by the bible and not just your denominational views.
I posted Solomons understanding of the death that befalls all men. I posted David's understanding and Isaiah's understanding. But they can't be used to support, defend or further your preaching that God created "dead" people. So you don't believe them.
According to God and Jesus, I can deliver myself from a Spiritual Death, by "Turning to God".
Ez. 18:
31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
Paul taught the same thing;
Acts 26:
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: 20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
But I only have this life in which to "Yield myself" to God. Because as it is written, "
The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." And "
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
It seems prudent to study so as to know the truth about this death, VS. being "dead in trespasses and sins".
I'm not going to dump a truck load of scriptures to refute your interpretation, one should be enough but I have given your 3 or 4 so let me know if you need more
It seems you are pitting one verse of God against another to prove your "God creates dead people" philosophy. I'm hoping you might reconsider, but the choice is yours.
