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Featured The Word and the Scripture

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Carl Emerson, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Many, many believers in China were without the scriptures for decades. What exactly are you trying to say?
     
  2. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    I agree, also I would not limit God’s work solely thru the scriptures. For the scriptures say
    “And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.”
    ‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:28‬ ‭NASB‬‬
     
  3. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Not really sure what point you are trying to make here...

    Firstly in our country belief in the indwelling Holy Spirit is common in mainline churches.

    Secondly the churches have largely abdicated their responsibility to minister to the mentally disturbed.

    Thirdly if the church comes under persecution - is that not a sign of life? Does not the adversary focus on where the life is?
     
  4. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Pertaining to the article, do you think Pentecostalism attracts the mentally ill where other churches do not? Or do they create mental illness.
     
  5. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God only speaks through scripture. Are you saying it does not thoroughly equip us?
     
  6. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    I have already answered this.

    Paul was writing to Timothy knowing he was going to be called into ministry.
    He was being assured that what they had available at that time concerning what was considered inspired scripture was fully sufficient to assist in his preparation.

    This is not a reference to the Holy Spirit becoming silent within us, to claim this is a serious twist of scripture.
     
  7. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    I have already answered this as follows:

    Firstly in our country belief in the indwelling Holy Spirit is common in mainline churches.

    Secondly the churches have largely abdicated their responsibility to minister to the mentally disturbed.

    Thirdly if the church comes under persecution - is that not a sign of life? Does not the adversary focus on where the life is?

    You are welcome to respond to these comments.
     
  8. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What do you base your claims on? And data?
     
  9. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    To say scripture doesn't thoroughly equip us by claiming extra biblical Revelation is to challenge God's word that says it does.


    “God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.” Romans 3:4 (KJV 1900)
     
  10. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    You have a 'handle' on the state of the church in your country and I have in mine. I am responding on that level. To not be 'scientific' does not mean one is not in touch with what is happening.
     
  11. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Exegesis 101...

    Who is the audience?

    Answer: Timothy.

    What is the context?

    Answer: Preparation for ministry

    Question: was Paul making a statement that the Holy Spirit within believers was henceforth silent?

    Answer: NO
     
  12. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dave Hunt's book "Seduction of Christianity" gives some good answers to that. He has written another book dealing with the extent of the Occult which has invaded the church, and these two books opened my eyes to the extent in which pagan mind-control and the occult has invaded the main-stream Charismatic movement. That turned that side of my theology on its head!

    I think it was God's grace and protection that I got introduced to Puritan theology earlier on in my Christian life, because it has provided a strong, sound, doctrinal foundation which has remained strong when I knew I had to turn away from many former Charismatic practices which I, on close examination of the New Testament, I couldn't find in it.

    Charismatics treat everything supernatural as coming from the Holy Spirit. Therefore if a telepathic "voice" is heard, many cannot distinguish between what they are hearing which could be from the Holy Spirit, and what could be a psychotic schizophrenic episode! Therefore it is no surprise that those who are depending on "voices" fall into mental health problems, because they are hearing the wrong voices!
     
  13. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    It is marvelous to me that all these years of debate between us, we are basically on the same page as far as these things are concerned. I have viewed around 45 hours of John MacArthur's ministry now, and I can't get enough of him. He ranks as one of the best, along with the best Puritan Bible teachers that I have read and enjoyed. It is like, after 50 years in the faith, getting a refresher course in the basics.

    He is largely correct in what he says about the Charismatic movement. The only bit that I don't agree with is his Cessationist views, and you know that pretty well after all the discussions and debates we have had about that. But that is the only issue I have with him. After reading Dave Hunt, and viewing John MacArthur's ministry, I don't think I could associate with a Charismatic church that practices the things that both Mr Hunt and MacArthur identify as pagan mind-control or the occult.

    The real power of God is the Holy Spirit working with the gospel of Christ. Paul said, "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, because it is the power of God unto salvation for all those who believe". The real miracle is a sinner turning to Christ, because only the Holy Spirit can genuinely convert a person to Him. If more Charismatics (and others) spent more time with God asking and pleading with Him to exercise His power to save souls from Hell, than trying to have sensory experiences and bodily manifestations, we would have much stronger, more effective churches in our communities which would indeed change our societies for good.
     
  14. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Oscaar,

    I understand your concerns and would have to agree that in terms of conversion growth modern churches are in a valley, because they have bought the lie that the church has to be presented as attractive to the world, and have adopted worldly ways of doing this.
    In so doing, the power of the gospel is not being appropriated and the visible unity of believers (which is meant to attract the world) is being ignored.

    But that is probably a topic for another thread.
     
  15. swordsman1

    swordsman1 Well-Known Member

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    The whole of 1 & 2 Timothy was addressed to Timothy. Does that mean we ignore the whole of those 2 epistles? In fact most of the epistles in the New Testament are addressed to a specific person or church. Should we tear those from our bibles as well?

    In any case 2 Tim 3:16-17 is a general statement of fact about scripture, not a personal instruction to Timothy.

    You'll have to do better than that in trying to deny the sufficiency of scripture.
     
  16. swordsman1

    swordsman1 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Telepathy, extra-sensory perception, premonitions, out of body experiences, hypnotic trances, obsessions with the supernatural and other psychic phenomena are the trademarks of New Age mysticism and the occult. They have no place in Christianity.
     
  17. swordsman1

    swordsman1 Well-Known Member

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    Hehe. Not even I agree with every nuance of John MacArthur's teaching on cessationism. He is a sound bible teacher though.
     
  18. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The chilling thing is that much of this is invading the Charismatic movement and many are unaware of what is happening. It seemed that they are bewitched to believing that much of this is of the Holy Spirit. If blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is attributing His work to the devil, is it not the same the other way around - attributing the work of the devil to the Holy Spirit?
     
  19. ~Zao~

    ~Zao~ Wisdom’s child Supporter

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    Either you are particular in only reading the letter or are particularly double-minded.
     
  20. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    As some on this forum do...

    Claiming that any guidance from the indwelling Holy Spirit is anything but just that, or that He has been silenced within is equally serious.
     
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