The United Nations: Pro-Arab, Pro-Iranian, Anti-Israel

[Staccato]

Stacco-

Yes, pull themselves up by their boot straps and fight for their country, correct! Odds stacked against them? Yes, it looks like it but what your not getting is that Israel isn't going to go down without an very aggressive fight. Remember Hitler? They pledge this isn't going to happen again with them with or without the U.S.

I was being facetious but, again, just because a country is surrounded by foes and vows to go out fighting doesn't mean we have to support them. I'm not against supporting Israel, but the relationship seems to be almost entirely one way. And whenever we do ask Israel to do something, like stop building settlements, people throw up their arms, act like we're expecting the Red Sea to part again and then accuse people of being against Israel.

I didn't say everyone was a corrupt dictatorship or didn't mean this; but lets look at who is in the U.N. shall we? I'm not appealing to emotions but reality. I didn't say Israel was perfect but its interesting that their enemies 99% of the time try to intimidate them and through bombs at them like a bully. When they try to defend themselves, the lamestream lefty media criticizes them in defending themselves.

Living here in the UK I confess that I can validate this. Not so much the BBC but ITV (the other major channel here) news was shamelessly, and I mean shamelessly, siding against Israel in both the Lebanon and Gaza incursions. They'd show images of wounded Lebanese or Palestinian children, time after time, with no real mention as to how or why the conflict was happening. Just that Israel was being a big meanie and hurting these poor kids.

So I can see where you're coming from, but to go too far the other way and not accept criticisms of Israel when they are valid does no-one any favours.

Its amazing they are letting the iranian hitler speak at the U.N.

You can disagree with the guy completely but he is a head of state.
Or are we for censorship now?

So, in addition to religious ties, we also have a practical reason for supporting the continued existence of Israel: it works. It is the most effective and stable state in its region.

Supporting, again, does not translate to the almost fanatical manner in which valid criticisms of the Israeli regime are denegrated and classed as being 'anti-Israel'. How many other geopolitical alliances do you know of that result in such fervent devotion from politicians and public alike? I don't doubt that supporting a stable regime in the region is a factor. I also don't doubt that it's one that features at the top of very few Americans' lists as to why we should support them, if they are being truly honest.

 

[salida]

Stacco-

I just get tired of Israel always bowing and trying to get peace by giving away their land that it gets tiring. We are the only friends Israel has in this world it seems-and we have had a relationship with them for decades. We helped them with their technology; and the list goes on. A certain segment of our media (liberal humanist media that only represents 20% of the u.s. citizens grossly misrepresents the news and arn't even handed and always puts Israel on the defensive). Why? Because this media has a humanist worldview which think that man is basically good and that we should sit down and talk to our enemies; and they are for socialism. You can't sit down and talk to a hitler type person who wants to behead people-like radical muslims who are terrorists. In their mindset (terrorists), think that the enemy is weak if sitting and talking is the way to conquer them. This is how europe is thinking and they are having great problems now with the muslims. In addition, when multiculturism is in a country eventually one culture denominates another and this doesn't work.

True, he is the head of his state but no one wants him here-most of us. I'm sorry the UN is in my country.

 

[Oneofthediaspora]

Wrong staccato; that isn't the only reason. It is because they are surrounded by enemies wanting to wipe them out of existence- they are the underdog. They keep giving away their land to appease the barbarians around them.

What ? Like what happened to the Native Americans you mean ?

 

[DavinMochrie]

they are the underdog.

Your not too clear of what's been happening there?

You do know how much the US spends in Israel right? That they have all the modern weaponry and latest gadgets that US money can buy.

They are not the Underdogs.

The Palestinians (Whose country it was) are and have always been the underdogs. Lebanon are the underdogs.

Terrorism only develops from the Underdog Countries because they are so desperate by a massive military force.

It would like be calling the British Empire the Underdogs against the Irish. Oh those big meanie Irish with their terrorism, against the poor little Defenseless might of the British Empire!!

Time to get some perspective on this issue I think. People are dying. Christian children are being slaughtered in Palestine and Lebanon by the Israelies.

 

[exotic walrus]

Stacco-

I just get tired of Israel always bowing and trying to get peace by giving away their land that it gets tiring.

I would guess you feel this way because you have no idea what you are talking about and have never actually examined the historical record?

 

[TheCatholic]

Perhaps, if Israel wasn't busy breaking so many of the rules, then the U.N might see them in a better light..

The UN is so full of thugs and despots that if they don't like Israel, that means Irsael is doing the right thing

Giving any credence to the UN is the ultimate stupidity

 

[TheCatholic]

Your not too clear of what's been happening there?

Are YOU not clear that Jews have been tortured, oppressed and persecuted for 3000 years? How long before you say enough is enough? The world has never helped them: They can only count on themselves.

If you lived in a tiny nation surrounded by armed enemies who have already attacked you before, you'd be singing a different tune.

 

[exotic walrus]

Are YOU not clear that Jews have been tortured, oppressed and persecuted for 3000 years? How long before you say enough is enough? The world has never helped them: They can only count on themselves.

If you lived in a tiny nation surrounded by armed enemies who have already attacked you before, you'd be singing a different tune.

Maybe if you took a cursory glance at US military aid to Israel you would be singing a different tune.

 

[TheCatholic]

Are YOU not clear that Jews have been tortured, oppressed and persecuted for 3000 years? How long before you say enough is enough? The world has never helped them: They can only count on themselves.

If you lived in a tiny nation surrounded by armed enemies who have already attacked you before, you'd be singing a different tune.

Maybe if you took a cursory glance at US military aid to Israel you would be singing a different tune.

Thank God for that aid. If it wasn't for us Israel would have been destroyed.
Who are they going to ccount on, the Aborigines? LOL. They'd have better luck throwing rocks

I'm not an anti-Semite. Nazism is dead.

 

[exotic walrus]

Actually they wouldn't be better off throwing rocks because the Aboriginal people had a vast and extensive array of technologies including spear throwing devices - a much more efficient tool than throwing rocks.

However if we are going to be offensive then that is fine with me...

You display a very low level of education. You exemplify the stereotype of the American who knows nothing of history. You don't understand rudimentary political terms. Your faith is led by a man complicit in the butchering of Central American children. To conclude - you are a f.ucking idiot.

 

[Staccato]

Stacco-

I just get tired of Israel always bowing and trying to get peace by giving away their land that it gets tiring.

Always bowing. Yeah, totally. They won't even make minor concessions on settlement building to their "only ally" for their own internal security unless we completely twist their arm.

We are the only friends Israel has in this world it seems

Maybe it's for a good reason. When others see Israel basically telling the US where to go whilst still enjoying unwavering support, I bet it turns many other countries off to be honest.

We helped them with their technology; and the list goes on. A certain segment of our media (liberal humanist media that only represents 20% of the u.s. citizens grossly misrepresents the news and arn't even handed and always puts Israel on the defensive). Why? Because this media has a humanist worldview which think that man is basically good and that we should sit down and talk to our enemies; and they are for socialism.

So utterly wrong I don't know where to begin.

You can't sit down and talk to a hitler type person who wants to behead people-like radical muslims who are terrorists. In their mindset (terrorists), think that the enemy is weak if sitting and talking is the way to conquer them. This is how europe is thinking and they are having great problems now with the muslims. In addition, when multiculturism is in a country eventually one culture denominates another and this doesn't work.

You still haven't explained why we (the US) should support Israel. We're not usually in the habit of helping out countries because we feel sorry for them. We're usually in the habit of helping out countries because we have something to gain out of it.

The UN is so full of thugs and despots that if they don't like Israel, that means Irsael is doing the right thing

Empty platitude followed by non-sequitur.

Giving any credence to the UN is the ultimate stupidity

Why? Because you say so?

Are YOU not clear that Jews have been tortured, oppressed and persecuted for 3000 years? How long before you say enough is enough?

...and? To be blunt, that has nothing to do with this. The US's foreign policy has never before been based on pity.

The world has never helped them: They can only count on themselves.

And the US. Unconditionally. That's the problem.

If you lived in a tiny nation surrounded by armed enemies who have already attacked you before, you'd be singing a different tune.

If you were a Palestinian you'd be singing a different tune.

Wow, these 'what if' situations really are pointless aren't they?

Thank God for that aid.

So now they can count on others apart from themselves? Make up your mind.

I'm not an anti-Semite. Nazism is dead.

Not being an unconditional supporter of Israel makes you neither an anti-Semite nor a Nazi.

 

[TheCatholic]

More anti-Jewish propoganda.
Maybe you can get a job with Ḥamās

 

[Staccato]

More anti-Jewish propoganda.
Maybe you can get a job with Ḥamās

As eloquent and thought-out an answer as I would have expected.

 

[TheCatholic]

Your not too clear of what's been happening there?

Are YOU not clear that Jews have been tortured, oppressed and persecuted for 3000 years? How long before you say enough is enough? The world has never helped them: They can only count on themselves.

If you lived in a tiny nation surrounded by armed enemies who have already attacked you before, you'd be singing a different tune.

 

[DavinMochrie]

Who are they going to ccount on, the Aborigines? LOL. They'd have better luck throwing rocks

Wait..... Is racism allowed on CF?

That's the most racist and offensive thing I've seen on CF.

You are aware that the last remaining Aborigines have survived massive genocide right??

 

[Gawron]

Posted by Staccato:

“Always bowing. Yeah, totally. They won't even make minor concessions on settlement building to their "only ally" for their own internal security unless we completely twist their arm.”

And on what grounds do we get to “completely twist” their arm? Especially given that yesterday Obama said this:

“No one nation can or should try to dominate another nation. That is the future America wants — a future of peace and prosperity that we can only reach if we recognize that all nations have rights, but all nations have responsibilities as well."

At the G-20 summit Obama said this concerning American foreign policy:

“we should forge partnerships as opposed to simply dictating solutions"

Apparently this concept of conducting foreign policy with such humility and restraint doesn’t extend to Israel. Just how would he define the “rights” and “responsibilities” of Israel as opposed to those of the Palestinians? The concept of giving up land for “peace” has been tried before.

Quote:

“Eighteen settlements formerly existed in the Sinai Peninsula and twenty-one in the Gaza Strip. All were abandoned as part of Israel's withdrawal from these areas in 1982 and 2005, respectively.

End Quote. Link: Israeli settlement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The results are not encouraging.

Quote:

In June 2007, Hamas violently took over the Gaza Strip, overthrowing the legitimate Palestinian Authority and neutralizing the Authority's security forces. In its place, Hamas set up a radical Muslim entity.

Supported by Iran and Syria, Hamas used the Gaza Strip as its launching pad to conduct ongoing terrorist attacks against Israel. Hamas amassed an extensive armed force of more than 20,000 armed operatives in Gaza. They constantly worked to increase the quality and range of their weapons and by late 2008, its rocket fire was capable of reaching some of Israel‘s largest cities and strategic infrastructure.

About 12,000 rockets and mortar bombs were launched against Israel between 2000 and 2008, including nearly 3,000 rockets and mortar bombs in 2008 alone.

These deliberate attacks caused deaths, injuries, and extensive property damage. They forced businesses to close and terrorized tens of thousands of residents into abandoning their homes.

End Quote. Link: http://www.mfa.gov.il/GazaFacts/Abou...inst-Hamas.htm

Given the past actions of Hamas, I suppose you would have us believe that if Israel gave up more land for “peace”, peace would actually reign. But in the interest of “peace” in the Middle East, Obama said yesterday as well:

"We continue to emphasize that America does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements (in the West Bank)"

End Quote. Link: http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Continu..._09232009.html

So much for not dictating to other nations.

Even Secretary of State Hillary Clinton got into the act, explaining Obama’s dictum in this fashion: "a stop to settlements -- not some settlements, not outposts, not natural growth exceptions." So you are talking about relocating at least 280,000 Israeli citizens so that Hamas can have a new base of operations.

Posted by Staccato:

“So utterly wrong I don't know where to begin.”

So you didn’t even try. What does this really say?

“You still haven't explained why we (the US) should support Israel.”

1. They are an ally of America. Thus as an ally we have an obligation to support Israel. If Russia ever were to invade Western Europe, how would you justify America not honoring its commitments to those "allied" nations?

2. It is the only stable Democracy in the region, a region not known for embracing democratic governance.

3. It is in the interest of our national security.

4. If we do not, other nations will certainly attempt to destroy it. Ackmademaboob has repeatedly called for the total destruction of Israel.

Suggested reading:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/conten...1/225tpziw.asp

“If you were a Palestinian you'd be singing a different tune.”

If the Palestinians are so loved by the Muslim world, why won’t some other Muslim nation take them in? In addition, maybe we should name that tune the Palestinians have been singing.

After sixty-years of Palestinian leadership, what do the poor Palestinian people have to show for it? Corruption in the government, tyranny at the hands of Hamas, religious intolerance, repeated rejection by the leadership of every offer of real independence in favor of forced militarization with the goal of the extinction of Israel.

Israel shouldn’t give another inch.

Oh, by the way, yesterday Obama also said this:

"Nothing is easier than blaming others for our troubles and absolving ourselves of responsibility for our choices and our actions"

So I guess the president is saying that the Palestinians are taking the easy path by blaming Israel for all of their ills. Sort of like he blames President Bush for all of his.

 

[Maverick3000]

\
In June 2007, Hamas violently took over the Gaza Strip, overthrowing the legitimate Palestinian Authority and neutralizing the Authority's security forces. In its place, Hamas set up a radical Muslim entity.

This is completely false. Hamas was elected democratically through the elections being looked upon as a "lesser evil" than Fatah. Fatah refused to be involved in the new government and tried to a coup against the Hamas government with US support. The attempt failed and the civil war caused the two the split. Hamas did not "overthrow" anything; it was Fatah that fired the first bullet.

Any source that blatantly lies about such a well known fact should be regarded as garbage.

 

[DaisyDay]

I have to admit I am enjoying your buckshot approach to declaring racism.

Isn't the OP by being anti-Arab being racist?

 

[DaisyDay]

Are YOU not clear that Jews have been tortured, oppressed and persecuted for 3000 years?

On and off, but then who has not been?

How long before you say enough is enough? The world has never helped them: They can only count on themselves.

I thought the world gave them the current land that is Israel, displacing the people who already lived there (some families for centuries).

If you lived in a tiny nation surrounded by armed enemies who have already attacked you before, you'd be singing a different tune.

Not all Israelis feel as you do. Many protest the injustices of their nation towards the Palestinians and Jordanians.

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

Why? Because this media has a humanist worldview which think that man is basically good and that we should sit down and talk to our enemies;

Do you disagree with this statement? Is man(kind) basically good or evil? Should we talk to our enemies, love our enemies, pray for those who persecute us, or just bomb them all?