The Pro Palestinian protests and news thread

[stevevw]

When Jerusalem was conquered by the Muslims in 636–37, it was part of the Byzantine Empire. The Byzantines were Christians.

Yes but the Byzantines still allowed the Jews to worship at their Temple at times even to the point of making plans to rebuild the Temple. So it wasn't as if the Jews were completely denied their relationship with the Temple Mount and the invading Empires recognised this. It wasn't the Byzantines or Muslims Temple but the Jews which they continued to hold important for millenia.

Around 360 AD the Byzantine Emperor Julian gave permission for the Jews to rebuild and populate Jerusalem and initiated the restoration of the Jewish Temple. In 438, The Empress Eudocia removed the ban on Jews' praying at the Temple site which led to the heads of the Jewish community to declare that the end of the exile of the Jews had come.

In 613 The Jews revolted against the Byzantines by joining forces with the Persians to capture Jerusalem in 614 AD and the majority of Christians in Jerusalem were deported to Persia. The Jews gained autonomy in Jerusalem and they began making plans for the construction of the 3rd Temple.

History of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So right up until the Muslims invaded the Jews were often allowed to pray at the Temple Mount and even making plans to rebuild it. I would imagine if the Muslims never invaded or were defeated then it is quite possible the Jews would have continued to worship at the Temple and even rebuilt it.

This was because of Israel's policies towards the Palestinians and the blocade of Gaza.

No the blocades and policies came later after the Palestinians failed to setup democractic elections and Hamas took control. That is when radicals began attacks oin Isreal and crossing the border. So the Isrealis had little choice but to increase border security.

So it was the Palestinian representatives Hamas who destroyed their chance of becoming a democractic nation. Instead of taking the opportunity and implementing democracy they chose confrontation which has led to most of the problems.

The Isrealis had even helped them install much of their infrastructure such as sewage. I would dare say that if they chose democracy the Isrealis would have continued to help them transition as it would be in their interest to have a domocratic and free nation as their neighbour instead of one wanting to wipe them out.

 

[essentialsaltes]

US airman dies after setting himself ablaze outside Israeli Embassy in Israel-Hamas war protest​

forum thread

Pro-Palestinian protesters shut down event organized by Jewish student groups at UC Berkeley​

UC Berkeley police evacuated an event organized by Jewish student groups after pro-Palestinian demonstrators broke open a door to the building and shattered a window.

At one point, about 200 protesters gathered outside the event site, Zellerbach Playhouse, holding up signs that read, “Stop the genocide,” and at times chanting, “Long live the intifida,” videos posted on social media showed.

University officials called the incident “appalling” [agreed!] and said police had to cancel the event and escort students to safety because of the number of demonstrators and the threat of violence.

 

[essentialsaltes]

With fake blood and screams at city council meetings, Gaza cease-fire protests are disrupting tiny Ojai​

“We have a lot on our plate and only a certain number of hours in the day, and so my feeling is that we need to focus on issues in our jurisdiction,” Mayor Betsy Stix said in an interview.

After weeks of protest, tiny Ojai passes Gaza cease-fire resolution​

The symbolic measure passed on a 3-1 vote, with one councilwoman absent, during a special meeting Monday dedicated solely to the resolution.

“I believe that it is our moral obligation and responsibility as humans to do everything that we can to reduce suffering of all beings with whom we share this planet,” Mayor Betsy Stix said. Stix voted to pass the measure despite having asked attendees at previous council meetings to limit their comments to local issues.

 

[FireDragon76]

We have not seen this level of anti-semitism in a long time. The public does not receive good information because journalism is basically gone. Some things I've learned. There is the idea that the land belongs to the Palestinians because of the British maneuvers circa 1948. Gee according to the Bible, the land was given to the Jewish people. Yes they got scattered-it's called the Diaspora but actually getting an official statehood does help.

The Hebrew Bible is a collection of ancient stories that created a religious identity. It's not a political roadmap to the modern Middle East.

The Palestinians trace their heritage back to the Philistines & we know of one famous Philistine. I think I'll go with the minstrel shepherd instead. It may appear that modern day Jews were just European vagabonds or Russian vagabonds. This is not necessarily true. The Jewish line, which is traced thru the mother, goes way back to the Biblical times. The Jews were chased out by any number of parties along the way. I have more confidence in the Israelies in maintaining the unique status of Jerusalem, all the sacred sites & cultural landmarks for heritages. They are not out to violate these. The world values the status of Jerusalem as being a world capital to 3 religions. It is unfortunate that the ever presence of terrorism forces the number of security checkpoints & infrastructure to mitigate damage from explosions etc but again the Palestinians simply refuse to behave. Any of the terrorist groups are not for this land for peace deal. They simply cannot behave & many people would be concerned over Jerusalem. The Israelis had assigned the West Bank & Gaza to them. I think that is a pretty good offer. What positive things have the Palestinians contributed to humanity? Now one sees a bunch of armchair generals trying to call for a ceasefire. Have not we had enough ceasefires over the years & they have never brought peace. The Israelis dropped leaflets & also used media communication in Arabic. It is not in their interest to use munitions against civilizans. You don't eliminate incoming rockets by taking down someone's apartment, hello. What is going on at the college campus level & in some corners of Congress is despicable. Yes hate speech is free speech. But why so much hatred? Simple. The Jewish people have a tradition of success in education & profession. They have contributed something. They don't play the victim card. Even more appalling is for our VP to set up a mission to correct the Islamophobia in the US. Really? Here Israel is attacked. Sounds to me like they are more concerned about maintaining the vote from Michigan. For the most part, now 2 decades after 9-11, I don't think most Americans walk around with an Islamic complex. We see these people in grocery stores, in school, at work, etc. They have now been here. No one is going out to blow up mosques. We also have the pro-Palestinian crowd protesting in the halls of Congress. Hey you guys started it & they should be made aware that our Congress sends aid to the Palestinians. They should be thankful that John Q American gets no say in that matter.

Palestinians are descended from people that lived in the area for thousands of years. They are not "Philistines" anymore than Ashkenazic Jews are.

 

[Pekka]

The Hebrew Bible is a collection of ancient stories that created a religious identity. It's not a political roadmap to the modern Middle East.



Palestinians are descended from people that lived in the area for thousands of years. They are not "Philistines" anymore than Ashkenazic Jews are.

Israel is full of archaeological sites and findings that identify the lands Jewish origins. I think you can dig deeper with a few Google searches.

I think a lot of palestinians come from todays Jordan. They migrated there as workers for the British railways etc. And they were not Palestinians back then, just Arabs. Arabs did not care about the land of Israel until Jews started developing it.

 

[stevevw]

I question the intentions and logic of those callieasefire and for peace. It seems they want a cease fire but they are mostly not willing or reluctant to condemn the Hamas attack.

What do they envision is a cease fire and peace. The Isrealis have made many cease fire agreements only to have radicals like Hamas break them. The circle of violence of repeated unprovoked attacks on a nation can only be tolerated for so long.

My prediction would be Isreal could enter into a cease fire and talk of peace but Hamas and the PA won't at this present time. Its all up to Hamas and the PA and those behind them like Iran.

Until Hamas and the like are willing to acknowledge Isreal as an independent nation with the right to exist then there's going to be no peace and any cease fire where the likes of Hamas are in charge and wanting to exterminate Isreal is not going to last long.

The best and perhaps only way to a cease fire and peace is the Abraham Accord. This is not just a Palestine and Isreal issue or an issue over land. THis is about radical Islam. The more Arab nations that accept Isreal and that Hamas and other radical groups are a danger to that area and the world the more radicals like Hamas, the PA, Hezbula, ISIS and Iran are isolated and backed into a corner.

Then it becomes an Arab issue and most Arab nations want peace and understand the dangers of radicalism even from their own religion. A number of Arab nations like UAE, Bahrain, Sudan, and Morocco and I think some other nations have expressed support in the past like Oman, Quatar, Kawait and Libya.

They can all work together to put pressure on radicals like Hamas. I think with the added weight of other Arab nations accepting Isreal and condemning terrorism would perhaps give Isreal more hope and leeway to make a cease fire as then they can all work together to put pressure on Hamas, the PA and Iran with various sanctions having greater effect.

But the Abraham Accord was shot down by the Biden Government. They restored funding and ties to Iran and the terrorist and now its all in limbo.

 

[FireDragon76]

Israel is full of archaeological sites and findings that identify the lands Jewish origins. I think you can dig deeper with a few Google searches.

The area was Phoenician/Canaanite. The idea of Judaism as a unified religion or ethnic identity didn't exit until the post-Exile period, long after most of those archeological sites have been dated.

I think a lot of palestinians come from todays Jordan. They migrated there as workers for the British railways etc. And they were not Palestinians back then, just Arabs.

That's far-right Israeli propaganda. Many Palestinians are descended from old families that have lived there since Ottoman times, if not before.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Large rally urging 'no preference' primary vote shuts down Mass. road​

The demonstrators at the rally consisted of Palestinian-Americans and allies, including some Jewish Americans.

"My Mom is Israeli," one demonstrator said. "It's a genocide, and it needs to end."

 

[ViaCrucis]

Israel is full of archaeological sites and findings that identify the lands Jewish origins. I think you can dig deeper with a few Google searches.

I think a lot of palestinians come from todays Jordan. They migrated there as workers for the British railways etc. And they were not Palestinians back then, just Arabs. Arabs did not care about the land of Israel until Jews started developing it.

Genetic studies show that Palestinians are, predominantly, descended from Bronze Age Levantines. Studies show that modern Palestinians have a complex ancestry. They are, as a people, a people with a long presence in the land. Descended from Canaanite, Jewish, Samaritan, and other groups which have at one point or another lived in the region. This shouldn't be surprising. It basically means that Palestinians are simply those people who have, historically, lived in this area and genetic research bears this out.

We also need to take a step back when talking about "Arab", because "Arab" is perhaps better understood as a cultural identity; for as Muslims from Arabia went on to conquer territory, those territories and peoples underwent varying levels of Arabization. Those who converted to Islam were, of course, most likely to adopt the language, customs, etc of their Arab conquerors; though dissident populations while still undergoing a form of Arabization still sought to retain their own identity (think the Coptic Christians who have tried to retain their Coptic/Egyptian identity as Egypt became highly Arabized). Of course this isn't universally the case, the Muslim conquests of Persia did not completely Arabize Persia, and Muslim Persia still remained and has remained strongly Persian; Iranians still speak Persian language(s). Turkish conquests also presented a unique Islamic-Turkish influence; and Arabs did not always particularly care for Ottoman rule. So it's very complicated. But when talking about Palestinians as an "Arab" group, that needs to be understood in the context of a region that underwent and experienced a great deal of Arabization. Palestinians are Arabs because of Arabization; and of course, those from historic Arabia did have a lot of contact with the Levant historically, both before and after the Muslim conquest of the region--so of course there will be that component to the historic population of the region.

Most importantly, however, and this makes everything I've just said almost irrelevant: the Palestinians themselves have their own Palestinian identity.

I'm an American, does it matter that my ancestors were immigrants? Does it matter that my fellow Americans have their own ancestry; whether immigrants or indigenous? At the end of the day there is an American identity that has been forged out from a melting pot.

The only real difference is that no one is going to challenge an American identity, because the United States of America is a universally recognized sovereign nation whose people have some level of agency through an officially recognized government in the affairs of the world.

Palestinians don't have that official recognition, or at least certainly not the same kind and degree of recognition. There is no officially recognized Palestinian government, and while some nations recognize Palestine, others don't. But that shouldn't be what determines a people's identity and understanding of themselves as a people with a culture and identity unto themselves. The Palestinians, by virtue of their own desire and determination for autonomy and recognition as a people, should be regarded as a people.

Should there be an independent and sovereign state of Palestine? Well if you want my opinion: Yes. I believe that both Palestine and Israel have a right to exist, as two autonomous and sovereign nations. I would also be in favor of some solution in which Jerusalem is neither Israeli nor Palestinian, but which could exist as its own, perhaps as an internationally recognized city-state which should be freely accessible to people of all religions and backgrounds. It should neither be a Jewish city, a Muslim city, or a Christian city; it should not be an Israeli city nor a Palestinian city. In that, perhaps in my--albeit overly optimistic and perhaps naive--opinion, a three-state solution of Palestine, Israel, and Jerusalem would be an ideal outcome.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Chesterton]

The area was Phoenician/Canaanite. The idea of Judaism as a unified religion or ethnic identity didn't exit until the post-Exile period, long after most of those archeological sites have been dated.

Yes and no. The idea of modern Judaism didn't yet exist, but the idea of a unified religion absolutely did.

Edit: I may need to correct myself here. There were the four "schools of thought" - Sadducees, Pharisees, Zealots and Essenes, who had their disagreements. If that's what you mean by not unified, then yes you're right. But they were united in the basics of monotheism, the Law, and ethnic identity.

That's far-right Israeli propaganda. Many Palestinians are descended from old families that have lived there since Ottoman times, if not before.

No. The people you call Palestinians are from the surrounding areas. The vast majority of Gazans have Egyptian surnames which trace their paternal lineage and geographic origins. The Arabs came from the surrounding lands because under the British Mandate the British offered good jobs and good wages.

 

[FireDragon76]

Yes and no. The idea of modern Judaism didn't yet exist, but the idea of a unified religion absolutely did.

Edit: I may need to correct myself here. There were the four "schools of thought" - Sadducees, Pharisees, Zealots and Essenes, who had their disagreements. If that's what you mean by not unified, then yes you're right. But they were united in the basics of monotheism, the Law, and ethnic identity.

That was all post-Exile. There is no evidence that during the Bronze Age. They were more like Canaanite city states, analogous to Greek city-states. Even the stories of Saul and David are written after the fact with a religiosu and political agenda, to describe people that most likely were little more than regional warlords (even the word "Hebrew" is a giveaway, since it's related to the word Habiru, which is an Akkadian word which means an adventurer or brigand).

 

[essentialsaltes]

20 Pomona College protesters arrested after storming, occupying president’s office​

What began as a peaceful pro-Palestinian demonstration on Friday afternoon at Pomona College, quickly devolved after protesters stormed and then occupied the college president’s office. By the end of the evening, 20 students had been arrested and booked by riot-gear-wearing local police forces.

Nineteen students were charged with misdemeanor trespassing, and one with obstruction of justice, according to the Claremont Police Department. Police from Claremont, Pomona, Azusa, and La Verne responded to the scene.

The protest started over the college’s dismantling of a piece of student-erected pro-Palestinian protest art on the Claremont campus, which had been standing since March 28.

The 32-foot-long, eight-paneled “apartheid wall” outside the Smith Campus Center was a physical and artistic protest designed to highlight “the unequal treatment of the Palestinian people living under the brutal conditions of the illegal Israeli Occupation,” and underscore the administration’s refusal to heed the will of students, who voted in February for the college to divest from companies seen as aiding Israel.

[Cultural Studies professor] Oishi said the wall “was not highly unusual at all” in terms of the kinds of art, installations and protests often seen around campus. “I don’t understand why it was seen as such a threat.”

[Dismantling began, protestors appeared to 'bear witness' and/or 'protect' what was left of the art]

At 4 p.m., 18 of the demonstrators entered Alexander Hall, “under false pretenses,” according to Starr, and made their way up a staircase and into Starr’s office.

[Police] that went in, according to the Claremont Courier and Ferguson, wore riot gear, and then exited with the arrested students. She said they arrested another student who was outside, but who got in the way as the police were leaving.

Social media photos and videos of the events show police physically pushing student reporters out of the room, and closing window blinds to prevent them from documenting the situation. Other videos show a chaotic and heavy police presence.

The students’ attorney, James “Jaime” Gutierrez, of the Gutierrez Law Firm, said he was not allowed in to see his clients and that the police department’s watch commander prohibited his entry into the building. [lawyer says the arrestees were not Mirandized]

Ferguson said the Pomona students were served “Emergency Interim Suspension” notices while in jail, and have been expelled from campus.

In Starr’s statement, she wrote that any Pomona students involved in the protest would be subject to immediate suspension, while students from the other Claremont Colleges would be banned from Pomona’s campus and “subject to discipline on their own campuses.”

 

[rjs330]

20 Pomona College protesters arrested after storming, occupying president’s office​

What began as a peaceful pro-Palestinian demonstration on Friday afternoon at Pomona College, quickly devolved after protesters stormed and then occupied the college president’s office. By the end of the evening, 20 students had been arrested and booked by riot-gear-wearing local police forces.

Nineteen students were charged with misdemeanor trespassing, and one with obstruction of justice, according to the Claremont Police Department. Police from Claremont, Pomona, Azusa, and La Verne responded to the scene.

The protest started over the college’s dismantling of a piece of student-erected pro-Palestinian protest art on the Claremont campus, which had been standing since March 28.

The 32-foot-long, eight-paneled “apartheid wall” outside the Smith Campus Center was a physical and artistic protest designed to highlight “the unequal treatment of the Palestinian people living under the brutal conditions of the illegal Israeli Occupation,” and underscore the administration’s refusal to heed the will of students, who voted in February for the college to divest from companies seen as aiding Israel.

[Cultural Studies professor] Oishi said the wall “was not highly unusual at all” in terms of the kinds of art, installations and protests often seen around campus. “I don’t understand why it was seen as such a threat.”

[Dismantling began, protestors appeared to 'bear witness' and/or 'protect' what was left of the art]

At 4 p.m., 18 of the demonstrators entered Alexander Hall, “under false pretenses,” according to Starr, and made their way up a staircase and into Starr’s office.

[Police] that went in, according to the Claremont Courier and Ferguson, wore riot gear, and then exited with the arrested students. She said they arrested another student who was outside, but who got in the way as the police were leaving.

Social media photos and videos of the events show police physically pushing student reporters out of the room, and closing window blinds to prevent them from documenting the situation. Other videos show a chaotic and heavy police presence.

The students’ attorney, James “Jaime” Gutierrez, of the Gutierrez Law Firm, said he was not allowed in to see his clients and that the police department’s watch commander prohibited his entry into the building. [lawyer says the arrestees were not Mirandized]

Ferguson said the Pomona students were served “Emergency Interim Suspension” notices while in jail, and have been expelled from campus.

In Starr’s statement, she wrote that any Pomona students involved in the protest would be subject to immediate suspension, while students from the other Claremont Colleges would be banned from Pomona’s campus and “subject to discipline on their own campuses.”

Great response from the president the university and the police. This stuff can't be tolerated no matter who is doing it. Our campus doesn't allow these kind of constructions on campus. They allow peaceful protests but don't tolerate disruptions in the buildings. If a group invaded our presidents building there would definitely be a police response and arrests would be made. Good for the university.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

I thought Israel was supposed to go to Gods people. But Jewish people rejected the Messiah/ Jesus. How would that land become the Jewish people? When they rejected Jesus?

Paul had something to say about the Jews that, at a glance, looks contradictory. But makes sense when you consider the full message of Paul

1 Thessalonians 2:14,15 "...the very things they suffered from the Jews, 15who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and drove us out as well. They are displeasing to God and hostile to all men..."

But then there is Romans 11:28 "As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers."

 

[Hazelelponi]

Here's some fun pro Palestinian stuff for people to listen to:

https://www.memri.org/tv/international-quds-day-rally-dearborn-michigan-death-america-israel

At Houston, Texas Al-Quds Day Rally Speakers Praise October 7 Hamas Attack, Martyrdom, And Jihad; Add: Hizbullah Leader Nasrallah Highlighted That Martyrdom Is Good, A Goal; Our Leader Khamenei Said That The Cancerous Tumor Of Zionism Will Be Destroy

Speakers at the Iran's International Al-Quds Day rally held in Houston, Texas, in front of the Israeli consulate on Apri...

www.memri.org

From April 5 on both

 

[essentialsaltes]

Here's some fun pro Palestinian stuff for people to listen to:

Critics have accused MEMRI of producing inaccurate, unreliable translations with undue emphasis and selectivity in translating and disseminating the most extreme views from Arabic and Persian media, which portray the Arab and Muslim world in a negative light, while ignoring moderate views that are often found in the same media outlets.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Critics have accused MEMRI of producing inaccurate, unreliable translations with undue emphasis and selectivity in translating and disseminating the most extreme views from Arabic and Persian media, which portray the Arab and Muslim world in a negative light, while ignoring moderate views that are often found in the same media outlets.

The speakers spoke in English.

I can go grab some material spoken in Arabic if you prefer. But no one is mistranslating even one word.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Here is another article about the first link:

Dearborn activist said it would be an 'honor' to be on terror list

Islamic activist Tarek Bazzi, whose Michigan rally sparked calls of 'Death to America', has previously said it would be an 'honor' to be placed on a list of 'history's biggest terrorists'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Hazelelponi]

"The White House reacted to the anti-American language in a Monday statement to the Daily Caller.

“The White House condemns these abhorrent and Antisemitic remarks in the strongest terms. As President Biden has said, America is the greatest nation on Earth and a beacon to the world,” Andrew Bates, a White House spokesperson, told the Daily Caller."

White House Condemns ‘Death To America’ Chants From Michigan Arab Community

The White House condemned protesters who were caught on video at an Internal Al-Quds Day rally, chanting “death to America," in a statement to the Daily Caller.

dailycaller.com

 

[essentialsaltes]

Not everyone who disagrees with the far left is a liar. Thanks.

Nobody said you or MEMRI were liars.

But people celebrating "Iran's International Al-Quds Day" (in America!) could certainly be described as "the most extreme views" that MEMRI chooses to disseminate.

But your post fits the topic, so I have no issue with it.