Palestinians face beatings, fires and drones from Israeli settlers in West Bank

[essentialsaltes]

He pointed to a figure in the distance, a settler who was grazing sheep on his land. Aram called the police. They arrived, but nothing was done. Aram was not surprised.

“We are surrounded,” he said. “They use our land whenever they want. They come in uniforms so you can’t tell the difference between settler and soldier.” He called up documents stored on an iPhone. “These court rulings say it’s our land. But nobody listens.”

Israel’s war against Hamas in Gaza has intensified the settler movement in the occupied West Bank, where for decades Jewish enclaves have risen on strategic hilltops to blunt the chances of a future Palestinian state. About 500,000 settlers, with the help of the army and police, essentially have free rein among 2.7 million Palestinians. More than 1,000 Palestinians have fled villages and small communities in recent weeks after settlers attacked homes, destroyed olive trees, blocked roads, and cut off electricity and water, according to B’Tselem, an Israeli human rights group.

The Jewish settlements are considered by most nations to be a violation of international law. The settlers have been encouraged by the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, but they undermine prospects for a lasting peace between Israelis and Palestinians.

He said he knew violence across the West Bank was accelerating with settler assaults on villages and Army raids on suspected Palestinian militants, notably to the north in Jenin, where the Israeli army said it is has been battling gunmen connected to Hamas. At least 232 Palestinians, including 61 children, have been killed in the West Bank by Israeli forces since Oct. 7, according to the United Nations. Settlers have killed eight Palestinians. Palestinians have killed four Israelis, including a soldier shot in ambush at a checkpoint.

 

[FrankDougans]

Jews in Israel know the smart way to deal with the Muslim problem is to expel the Muslims: First from Gaza, then from the West Bank, then from Israel. This is their way of doing that in their area. They're fed up with Muslim aggression and senseless hatred of Jews. There's lots of Muslim countries to choose from. There is one Jewish country. It's not hard to grasp. And let's be clear. There is no country of Palestine, nor has there ever been one. There are no "Palestinian" people if there has never been a country of Palestine. They are Muslim Arab Israelis. And it's time for them to go. Well....99.999% are Muslim. And even the Christians have Muslim relatives. Though probably if the West Bank was all Jewish and Gaza was emptied, the remaining Muslims would be such a minority they wouldn't cause much problems. They should live in a Muslim country and stop bothering the Israelis since their religion is predicated on the destruction of Israel and everything Israeli. Judaism on the other hand is NOT predicated on the destruction of anyone. Slight difference.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Jews in Israel know the smart way to deal with the Muslim problem is to expel the Muslims: First from Gaza, then from the West Bank, then from Israel. This is their way of doing that in their area.

That would be a crime against humanity. So that can't possibly be the plan of the Israeli government.

 

[FrankDougans]

Everything the Muslims do in that region is a crime against humanity! The IDF just discovered booby traps in the maternity area of a hospital in Gaza. Ponder that for a minute. They also hid a bomb in a doll wrapped up in baby clothes with a speaker to entice the soldiers close to rescue the baby. That's the kind of despicable human trash the IDF is dealing with there. They take "human shields" to a whole new level of complicity, deception and complete abandonment of the most fundamental human decency imaginable. They are barbarians. The Muslims are like a cancer that needs to be excised. This can be done over time, humanely and sensibly though they hardly deserve it. They have had a terrible life in Gaza thanks to their own stupidity in electing Hamas, if that was even a fair and honest election which few people think it was. The sensible solution is to find them homes in one of the MANY Muslim countries in the world. Israel's biggest mistake was letting Muslims in to begin with. They wanted to project the image of tolerance. Well you have to be crazy to willingly live beside a neighbor bent on your destruction. They should have allowed anyone BUT Muslims in. Especially Christians who will always have Israel's back, as we should.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Israel's biggest mistake was letting Muslims in to begin with.

Israel didn't. Muslims were living there before the establishment of the Israeli state.

They wanted to project the image of tolerance.

If Israel wanted to do that, they could have let the Muslims who fled return to their homes. They have not, and they have not recognized the Palestinians' right of return, and that's why there are still refugee camps 75 years later.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Jews in Israel know the smart way to deal with the Muslim problem is to expel the Muslims: First from Gaza, then from the West Bank, then from Israel.

Well, that's a take.

This is their way of doing that in their area. They're fed up with Muslim aggression and senseless hatred of Jews. There's lots of Muslim countries to choose from. There is one Jewish country. It's not hard to grasp. And let's be clear. There is no country of Palestine, nor has there ever been one. There are no "Palestinian" people if there has never been a country of Palestine. They are Muslim Arab Israelis. And it's time for them to go. Well....99.999% are Muslim. And even the Christians have Muslim relatives. Though probably if the West Bank was all Jewish and Gaza was emptied, the remaining Muslims would be such a minority they wouldn't cause much problems. They should live in a Muslim country and stop bothering the Israelis since their religion is predicated on the destruction of Israel and everything Israeli. Judaism on the other hand is NOT predicated on the destruction of anyone. Slight difference.

There was no state of Israel until 1948. Over half of the Jews currently living in Israel aren't even descended from natives of the area. The Palestinians have as much claim on the area as anybody.

 

[rjs330]

Israel didn't. Muslims were living there before the establishment of the Israeli state.


If Israel wanted to do that, they could have let the Muslims who fled return to their homes. They have not, and they have not recognized the Palestinians' right of return, and that's why there are still refugee camps 75 years later.

The Jews had that land like ng before the Muslims did. They were driven out. Now they are fed up with the Muslim aggression and hatred. I don't know where all this will lead. But in the end Israel will be the one left standing. The Muslims should have created a state a long time ago and worked in creating a thriving country instead of the squalid circumstances they live in strictly because they can't stand the Jews and cannot leave them alone. And the Jews apparently are fed up with it all. Whatever happens to the Palestinians they have brought into themselves.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Whatever happens to the Palestinians they have brought into themselves.

Collective punishment is a crime against humanity.

 

[adrianmonk]

The Jews had that land like ng before the Muslims did.

How long ago ? And how long does this ownership stand ? And how do you know that the Muslims who live there now didn't have ancestors who were Jewish and converted to Islam ?

 

[Pommer]

Jews in Israel know the smart way to deal with the Muslim problem is to expel the Muslims: First from Gaza, then from the West Bank, then from Israel. This is their way of doing that in their area. They're fed up with Muslim aggression and senseless hatred of Jews. There's lots of Muslim countries to choose from. There is one Jewish country. It's not hard to grasp. And let's be clear. There is no country of Palestine, nor has there ever been one. There are no "Palestinian" people if there has never been a country of Palestine. They are Muslim Arab Israelis. And it's time for them to go. Well....99.999% are Muslim. And even the Christians have Muslim relatives. Though probably if the West Bank was all Jewish and Gaza was emptied, the remaining Muslims would be such a minority they wouldn't cause much problems. They should live in a Muslim country and stop bothering the Israelis since their religion is predicated on the destruction of Israel and everything Israeli. Judaism on the other hand is NOT predicated on the destruction of anyone. Slight difference.

So “from the river to the sea” but with Israelis in control?

 

[FrankDougans]

Israel didn't. Muslims were living there before the establishment of the Israeli state.


If Israel wanted to do that, they could have let the Muslims who fled return to their homes. They have not, and they have not recognized the Palestinians' right of return, and that's why there are still refugee camps 75 years later.

Actually the land of Israel had almost no one there before Israel was established. That's another fact lost on most people today. They think there has always been millions of people there! They wanted to come AFTER Israel made it great. And there is no "Palestinian" people. They're just Arabs. To be Palestinian there would have had to be a country of Palestine. But that has never occurred, has it? Let's not let something as trivial as history spoil our fun!
Are you Christian?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Actually the land of Israel had almost no one there before Israel was established.

They were mostly Muslim.

The 1922 Census of Palestine found more than three-quarters of the population was Muslim, followed by roughly equal numbers of Jews and Christians, along with smaller numbers of miscellaneous.

While the population of the area has certainly grown manyfold, it's not dissimilar from other countries in the region, like Egypt:
1920: 13 million
2020: 102 million

And there is no "Palestinian" people.

There are people who owned homes and property in British Palestine. Many have been prevented from returning to the land they owned, nor have they been compensated for their property.

Are you Christian?

No.

 

[adrianmonk]

Actually the land of Israel had almost no one there before Israel was established. That's another fact lost on most people today.

And the evidence for this claim is ?

 

[rjs330]

Collective punishment is a crime against humanity.

Not when it's deserved by a people. Corporate punishment is a legit thing. Especially when you are part of the corporate and a willing participant in it all.

 

[rjs330]

How long ago ? And how long does this ownership stand ? And how do you know that the Muslims who live there now didn't have ancestors who were Jewish and converted to Islam ?

You should actually look it up. The Jews had the land long before Muslims even existed. So if we are going to claim ownership the the Jews were first. The land belongs to whomever controls it at any given time. That's how the world works. And if you are going. To claim Palestinians owned it then let's go back to the ancient history and find out the Jews dis first.

 

[iluvatar5150]

You should actually look it up. The Jews had the land long before Muslims even existed. So if we are going to claim ownership the the Jews were first. The land belongs to whomever controls it at any given time. That's how the world works. And if you are going. To claim Palestinians owned it then let's go back to the ancient history and find out the Jews dis first.

Jews lived there before the religion of Islam existed, but Jews were not the first people to inhabit the area. Israel as an independent political entity hadn’t existed since Babylonian times.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Not when it's deserved by a people.

Fourth Geneva Convention Part 3 Article 33 disagrees.

 

[adrianmonk]

Not when it's deserved by a people. Corporate punishment is a legit thing. Especially when you are part of the corporate and a willing participant in it all.

Corporal ? Collective ? If you mean the latter, then as @essentialsaltes posted, it is not ok.

Article 33 - Individual responsibility, collective penalties, pillage, reprisals. No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited. Pillage is prohibited.

You should actually look it up. The Jews had the land long before Muslims even existed. So if we are going to claim ownership the the Jews were first. The land belongs to whomever controls it at any given time. That's how the world works. And if you are going. To claim Palestinians owned it then let's go back to the ancient history and find out the Jews dis first.

You know very well that is not the context of the question I asked. Lets say Israel had control of the land 2000 years ago, so how does that specific scenario translate to ownership today ? Israel is a country today so the question is moot, but how does ownership 2000 years ago give absolute right of the land today ? Are you saying that since it was once ruled by Jews, it always belongs to the Jews ?

If an individual converts to Judaism today does that mean that the individual has more rights to the land than an Arab whose family has lived there for over 2000 years ? Is this right determined solely by that individual's religion ?

 

[rjs330]

Corporal ? Collective ? If you mean the latter, then as @essentialsaltes posted, it is not ok.





You know very well that is not the context of the question I asked. Lets say Israel had control of the land 2000 years ago, so how does that specific scenario translate to ownership today ? Israel is a country today so the question is moot, but how does ownership 2000 years ago give absolute right of the land today ? Are you saying that since it was once ruled by Jews, it always belongs to the Jews ?

If an individual converts to Judaism today does that mean that the individual has more rights to the land than an Arab whose family has lived there for over 2000 years ? Is this right determined solely by that individual's religion ?

Land has always belonged to those who had it and could control it. It's the lesson of History. The claim that Palestinians had the land therefore the Israel shouldn't be there is a false claim because you are basing it on simple claim. If you are basing it on who has it first. Well the Jews had it first. So it's theirs if using your criteria.

The real criteria is that land belongs to those who control it. It can be taken away by aire powerful force. The Jews lost it to the Romans. The Ottoman Empire took it. The British ended up controlling it. They and the UN gave some of it to the Jews who elected to accept it and take control of it. It's theirs until someone else can take it away from them.

That's how the world works.

 

[essentialsaltes]

The claim that Palestinians had the land therefore the Israel shouldn't be there is

a strawman as far as I'm concerned. The claim is that many Palestinians owned certain specific properties in 1948, but they are prevented from returning to their houses and claiming their property.

The real criteria is that land belongs to those who control it. It can be taken away by aire powerful force. The Jews lost it to the Romans.

They lost 'control' as you say, but the Jews were not expelled from their homes. The Romans even installed a client king who was a Jew.

The British ended up controlling it.

They didn't expel the residents.