THE TRUTH ABOUT THE STATE OF THE DEAD?

[ChetSinger]

Actually that is not true the Spirit of the Lord departed Saul because of His sins and and evil Spirit was left with him. 1 Samuel 16:14 [14], But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. When Saul went to inquire from the Lord, God would not answer him *1 Samuel 28:5-6 [5], And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled. [6], And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. Your disregarding scripture contexts. What makes you now think God now wanted to answer Saul by using the witch of Endor that God commanded his people not to use in the old testament scriptures in Leviticus 19? Your argument here is not biblical or does it make sense according to the scriptures.

Well, we're just going to disagree on this one.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Well, we're just going to disagree on this one.

Ok but you have not told me why you disagree or answered anything in the post that you are quoting from.

 

[Gundy22]

The BIBLE says it was SAMUEL talking to Saul.

Where is the justification in saying it was an evil spirit pretending to be Samuel?

Does the Bible TRICK US like that ?

Where else does the Bible say someone said something - and it turns out that it was NOT that person saying it - but some evil spirit impersonating the person?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The BIBLE says it was SAMUEL talking to Saul.

Where is the justification in saying it was an evil spirit pretending to be Samuel?

Does the Bible TRICK US like that ?

Where else does the Bible say someone said something - and it turns out that it was NOT that person saying it - but some evil spirit impersonating the person?

No it doesn't. Are you saying that a pagan, heathen witch that has a familiar Spirit (demon) can bring up the real Samuel from the dead to talk to Saul when God commanded His people to have nothing to do with witches and those who have familiar Spirits and departed Saul leaving him with an evil Spirit and would not answer him?

Did the witch of Endor conjure up the dead spirit of Samuel? No. A close reading of the verses involved will reveal that it was not Samuel. First, notice in verse 14 that Saul has to ask her to tell him what she sees and its appearance. Once she informs him that it's an old man covered with a mantle, he understands it to be Samuel. Sounds a bit fishy to me. Secondly, and I believe the greatest evidence against identifying this apparition as Samuel, is found in verses 15 and 16. Ironically, the evidence lies in Saul's own words. Verse 15 records him talking to what he believes is Samuel. When asked by the apparition why he was summoned, Saul responds, "God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams." Notice what he said about prophets. Saul said God does not answer me by prophets. This apparition replies in verse 16, "Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the Lord is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy."

If God would not answer Saul by prophets, what made him think he was talking to a prophet? The apparition all but says, "If God does not answer you by prophets, then what makes you think you are speaking to one now?" The fact that Saul understands that God will not communicate with him should put us on notice that God would not do so through a dead prophet, either—not to mention the fact that according to Scripture, the dead know nothing and rest in the grave until the second coming. On the night before his death, Saul sought council from a witch. This witch of Endor conjured up an apparition, but it was certainly not Samuel. Instead, it was a demon. Your misreading the scriptures to make them say things they are not saying and putting scripture in contradiction to scripture as shown in the questions I am asking you that your not answering which is in disagreement of your interpretation of the passages of Saul and the demonic witch of Endor.

Chronicles 10:13-14 says this about the death of Saul: "So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; and enquired not of the Lord: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse." According to 1 Chronicles 10:13-14, whatever the witch of Endor conjured up, it was not of the Lord.

So Saul sought out the spirit of Satan because he did not get an answer from God. Because of that, Saul was destroyed.

Hope this is helpful

 

[Gundy22]

So the Bible says it was Samuel speaking but an SDA says it was the Devil speaking.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So the Bible says it was Samuel speaking but an SDA says it was the Devil speaking.

No the bible says it here...

1 Chronicles 10:13-14 says this about the death of Saul: "So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it; and inquired not of the Lord: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse." According to 1 Chronicles 10:13-14, whatever the witch of Endor conjured up, it was not of the Lord.

So Saul sought out the spirit of Satan through the witch of Endor because he did not get an answer from God. Because of that, Saul was destroyed. God was not speaking to Saul. Your interpretation of the scriptures has God speaking to Saul through a witch when the scripture says it was not God. You do not seem to be reading what has been posted from the scriptures shared with you or perhaps you missed it.

We should believe and follow God's Word as they will lead us closer to God.

 

[Gundy22]

It was the Devil - it was a demon - it was anything but what the Bible says it was. The Bible says it was Samuel - but Soul Sleepers cannot admit that - for it proves their doctrine wrong - so they deny deny deny deny what the bible says and make up their own tripe to push at others.

Let it be seen what is done here.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It was the Devil - it was a demon - it was anything but what the Bible says it was. The Bible says it was Samuel - but Soul Sleepers cannot admit that - for it proves their doctrine wrong - so they deny deny deny deny what the bible says and make up their own tripe to push at others.

Let it be seen what is done here.

I just posted you scripture from 1 Chronicles 10:13-14 stating verbatim that it was not the Lord Saul was inquiring from which are God's Words not my words. Your responding to God's Word in the post above your disagreeing with Gods' Word with your words. For me only Gods' Word is true and we should believe and follow them. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. I will leave that between you and God and we will agree to disagree.

 

[Gundy22]

ellen white on samuel being called upon - Bing images

 

[LoveGodsWord]

ellen white on samuel being called upon - Bing images

Not sure what your point is here. Only scripture has been shared with you here in this OP but it seems you do not believe what is being shared with you. As posted earlier we will agree to disagree as I do not think your view is biblical if you believe God uses witches to answer prayer. This teaching is not biblical according to the scriptures.

 

[ChetSinger]

Ok but you have not told me why you disagree or answered anything in the post that you are quoting from.

I accept the plain reading, that's all: the speaker was Samuel because the Bible says it was. Also because I've likely been exposed to teaching sources that you haven't been, which permit me to read that text plainly without reservations. Some of that is codified in the link I provided.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I accept the plain reading, that's all: the speaker was Samuel because the Bible says it was. Also because I've likely been exposed to teaching sources that you haven't been, which permit me to read that text plainly without reservations. Some of that is codified in that link I provided.

Good please believe Gods' Word....

1 Chronicles 10:13-14 says this about the death of Saul: "So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it; and inquired not of the Lord: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse." According to 1 Chronicles 10:13-14, whatever the witch of Endor conjured up, it was not of the Lord.

God's Word verbatim says that it was not the Lord Saul was inquiring from which are God's Words not my words. Your responding to God's Word in the post above your disagreeing with Gods' Word with your words. For me only Gods' Word is true and we should believe and follow them. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. I will leave that between you and God and we will agree to disagree.

God tells us not to inquire of witches and those who have familiar Spirits.

 

[ChetSinger]

Good please believe Gods' Word...

Yes, absolutely.

1 Chronicles 10:13-14 says this about the death of Saul: "So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it; and inquired not of the Lord: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse."

Yes, but in this the KJV translation doesn't quite follow the Hebrew. Strictly speaking, the phrase "one that had a familiar spirit" seems to have originally meant "one that has a ritual pit".

According to 1 Chronicles 10:13-14, whatever the witch of Endor conjured up, it was not of the Lord.

Of course it wasn't of the Lord. Saul and the witch were disobeying the Lord.

God's Word verbatim says that it was not the Lord Saul was inquiring from which are God's Words not my words. Your responding to God's Word in the post above your disagreeing with Gods' Word with your words. For me only Gods' Word is true and we should believe and follow them. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. I will leave that between you and God and we will agree to disagree.

I'm not disagreeing with God's word at all. The Israelites were forbidden to "inquire of the dead". Why? Because it was possible. There's no reason to forbid behavior that's impossible. Saul attempted it, Samuel cursed him, and Saul's line ended the next day. That's the plain reading.

God tells us not to inquire of witches and those who have familiar Spirits.

Yes, of course. I sense you're getting agitated that I don't agree with you. Please don't. The view that the speaker in 1 Samuel 28:15-19 is Samuel himself is an old one in both Christian and Jewish writings.

 

[Davy]

Hi Davy thanks for sharing your view. As your post is a big one I might break this post down into smaller ones so they are easier to read. Some comments provided below for you interest...

No problem, I'll respond to each one separately too, just so we know you're not trying to take advantage.

Agreed. The Jews viewed death as a sleep as does the Old and new testament scriptures as shown in the many posts on page one of this OP.

Just mention of the belief in the Scriptures by those who believed that does not make it true though. That is the difference between allowing God's Word to interpret it per His Truth in His Word, vs. the confusion of men's traditions, which soul sleep was one of them.

 

[Davy]

I agree that Solomon understood what happens when we die but it is not according to your interpretation of Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 here. All this scripture says is that the body will die and the Spirit (רוּחַ (rûwach) breath H7307) returns to God who gave it (see also Genesis 2:7; soul here meaning a living breathing creature). So the Spirit or breath that God gave returns to God who gave it. That is the breath of life that caused us to live at creation. According to the scriptures without the breath of God we return to the dust until the resurrection of the dead at the second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:14-18). Genesis 3:19, In the sweat of your face shall you eat bread, till you return to the ground; for out of it were you taken: for dust you are, and to dust shall you return. Salomon also posted what happens at death earlier in Ecclesiastes 9 which also disagrees with your interpretation here in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7. Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 says [5], For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. [6], Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

More to come...

Well, Eccl.12:5-7 DOES SAY exactly how I explained it. But what you're doing is slowly sliding into men's traditions that are not written in that Scripture at all.

I mean, it's obvious that a "living breathing creature" is definitely NOT what returns to God at flesh death. What returns is the 'spirit' of the once living breathing creature, which with MAN is what Eccl.12 is defining. And this distinguishes between man's soul and plants and animals which aren't the same thing, since you tried... to make this sound neutral like some lab experiment. Solomon is speaking of what happens at MAN's death, not plants or animals.

All you're doing is defaulting directly to Judaism's traditional belief based solely on Genesis 2:7, without even considering The New Testament witnesses that our soul with spirit continues on after flesh death.

Then you go to Ecclesiastes 9 and apply another false tradition, thinking that Solomon meant the 'dead' always mean just anyone that dies, forgetting that Jesus using the idea of 'dead' to mean a soul that is not 'born again' in Him...

Matt 8:22
22 But Jesus said unto him, "Follow Me; and let the dead bury their dead."
KJV

Matt 23:27
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
KJV

Luke 11:44
44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.
KJV

That is how Solomon is pointing to the dead in Eccl.9, for he says about the dead, that they have no more a reward, the memory OF them is forgotten, nor do they have any portion ever again in any thing done under the sun. Is that really... about those who have died in Christ Jesus. I though those in Christ at the resurrection have a promise of future REWARD, and they are NOT forgotten, and they DO have things to yet do under the sun. So how can men's traditions apply that 'dead' idea in Eccl.9 to be about the Church's saints??? That Scripture is abused by men's traditions, plain and simple. Satan has tricked the gullible who don't know God's Word, and they just picked that Scripture out of a hat without really understanding it!

The REAL DEAD:

Isa 26:14
14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
KJV

That Scripture is one of two places in the KJV where the word Rephaim was not brought into the English (with that word deceased). The Rephaim was a name for the hybrid giants caused by the mating of the angels in Genesis 6. That Isaiah Scripture says those are truly "dead", and shall not rise (Hebrew quwm, to rise). That means they will not be resurrected. Yet we well know per NT doctrine that all born in the flesh must be resurrected to stand before Christ's Judgment Seat. These Rephaim won't, which is another way God's Word confirms that they were hybrids from what the "sons of God" did in Genesis 6, and not flesh seed that God Himself created. There's... the dead that Solomon was really pointing to in Eccl.9.

 

[Hebrewselevensix]

The communion of saints

the saints are alive in christ in heaven interceding for us!

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

rev 5:8 prayers of the saints

 

[Davy]

Actually the old testament scriptures were written in original Hebrew language so the Jews here had a better understanding of what the scriptures here were talking about in regards to the state of the dead.

That is such a baloney false claim to authority in The Scriptures, that it ought to make anyone almost sick to just read such a claim! Next you're going to maybe claim that Lord Jesus said the scribes and Pharisees knew The Scriptures better than Him???

Some of the many scriptures from the old testament already provided on the first page in many posts of the OP. So to say this is a theory in my view in light of the many scriptures posted showing that death is talked about as a sleep is to deny those scriptures already posted in favor of a tradition and false teaching that has become very much a part of mainstream Christianity today that as crept into the Church many years latter that is not biblical.

Most of the OT Scriptures posted are just more of early 'beliefs' per the traditions of the Jews of that time. When Jesus came, He revealed more detail about death, yet Jews still... prefer to hold on to THEIR Old Testament traditions instead! So what you just said there against mainstream Christianity slowly reveals your favoritism towards Judaism instead. You said nothing of the many New Testament Scriptures that YOU left out of your post that clearly go against the asleep in the ground tradition of the Old Testament Jews. I notice by your trying to isolate these posts not covering what both the Old Testament and New Testament says in total, you are trying to isolate just what the Old Testament Jews believed.

As posted earlier we do cease to exist according to the scripture until the second coming and the resurrection of the just and the unjust *Ecclesiastes 9:5-6; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18. Of course it makes no sense scripture wise for us to go to heaven or hell at death (pagan teaching) and for us to be resurrected again from these places at the second coming now does it? Yes I do agree though that the Spirit (breath) returns back to God who gave it. This however is not us but the breath of life that comes from God that gives us life that existed before we were created according to the scriptures (Genesis 2:7)

According to Eccl.12:5-7, at flesh death the "silver cord" is "loosed", and then our flesh goes back to the earthly elements where it came from, but our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. That is what the Eccl.12 Scripture says, and nothing more. It does not bring up the identity of "the dead". Eccl.12:5-7 is actually outlining a scientific event of what happens when men die. The New Testament also reveals this as literal, which you STILL refuse to address so far. Most of your above paragraph is just your speculation not based on the Eccl.12 Scripture at all.

The scriptures read like this but are not talking about what you are saying. A soul in the Greek and Hebrew simply means a living and breathing creature (alive) with dead being no breath. Let's look at the scripture and it's application. “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matthew 10:28.
In Luke....“And I say unto you My friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear Him, which after He hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear Him.” Luke 12:4, 5.

Eccl.12:5-7 is talking EXACTLY about what I am saying. You are only telling fibs.

The 'soul' per New Testament doctrine is a part of our being that is SEPARATE from flesh, and separate from this earthly dimension. Jesus proved that in Matthew 10:28 when He said to not fear those who can kill the flesh, but not the soul. If you don't believe the soul continues with the spirit part, after flesh death, then when YOU die, you will no longer exist. There won't be anything to resurrect! Your personality would be gone, forever! That is the false tradition of asleep in the ground from the Jews. It's a trick doctrine directly from the devil, for he certainly does not want God's people to believe in life after death!

1. These texts are the record, by different writers, of the same language of the Savior. The first one is often quoted by those who teach the immortality of the soul and its conscious existence in death. In Matthew’s version of the Saviors words, the soul is indeed made very prominent; but in that of Luke, it is not mentioned. Yet the language of the one version is the same substance as that of the other.

There's that 'supposed authority' in the Scriptures puffed-up attitude again brethren. Apostle Paul made it clear that only at Christ's coming does any soul put on immortality. All souls are MORTAL until Christ's coming. Jesus even showed this in Matthew 10:28 if the deceived would just read it. When He said not to fear those who can kill our flesh, but not our soul, He showed The One that we should fear, and that is The Father who can destroy both body and soul in the future lake of fire ("hell" there in the KJV is Geheena put for the Valley of Hinom, which is put for the future lake of fire at the end of Rev.20). When Jesus comes and the resurrection takes place, even for the wicked, that's the end of being in these flesh bodies. Then the only body that can be destroyed is the spirit body with soul, and that was what Jesus was pointing to that The Father could still destroy.

Thus man becoming a 'living soul' by God's breath is about our 'spirit' part, NOT our flesh. It is about God imparting our soul with spirit into a flesh shell, into a tabernacle or house according to what Apostle Paul called it in 2 Corinthians 5.

2. Thus, while Matthew represents the Savior as saying, “Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul,” Luke expresses the idea thus: “Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more they can do.” And Matthew adds, “Fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” Luke gives the same warning, thus: “Fear Him, which after He hath killed hath power to cast into hell.”

Isn't that amazing, you cut & paste New Testament Scripture as if you are keeping to what it says, but in reality you are not:

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV

Luke 12:5
5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear Him, Which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear Him.
KJV

In both cases of the Greek for "hell" above, it is from the Hebrew Hinnom, used as symbolic for the future "lake of fire" destruction. The above Scripture is clear that the SOUL continues to have life after flesh death. It is NOT destroyed by destruction of the flesh. Paul made this even MORE clear in 2 Corinthians 5 when he gave the example if one's flesh were 'dissolved' at flesh death!

3. Thus it is seen that our Lord recognizes the fact plainly expressed elsewhere, that there are two deaths. The first death, which is the common lot of mankind, is thus spoken of by Paul: “It is appointed unto men once to die.” Hebrews 9:27. The second death is the portion only of the wicked. “He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.” Revelation 2:11; 20:6, 14; 21:8. The Savior bids us not to fear those who can inflict only the first of these deaths; but He warns us to fear Him who alone is able to kill with the second death both body and soul.

Lord Jesus revealed MORE DETAIL of what happens with flesh death. The Old Testament Scripture does not. Just because the Old Testament Scriptures only gives a short detail of what happens at death, doesn't mean the New Testament further detail isn't in agreement. So of course the Scriptures agree, but where they do not... agree, is with man's sleep in the ground Jewish traditions from Judaism, which is what you are espousing here.

An example: the "second death" mentioned in Rev.20 is not about the death of one's flesh again. If you believe that (which many Jews do) that would mean you believe in reincarnation (which many Jews believe by the way). The resurrection is NOT... a reincarnation of flesh. The resurrection is the raising of one's spiritual body with soul (per Paul in 1 Corinthians 15). That... is the reason no man can kill the soul after the flesh has died, and ONLY God can by casting it into the future "lake of fire".

So all the scripture here is in harmony with the rest of the bible and the resurrection of the dead, and Gods' judgement at the second coming for the righteous and the wicked.

John 3:3-7 is talking about us needing to be born again of Gods' holy Spirit in order to enter into Gods' Kingdom. You may want to revisit this.

more to come...

Of course all Bible Scripture is in agreement, but what you proposed is not. There's the hard truth.

 

[Davy]

I think the key thing you missed here in this scripture is verse 7 that agrees with Genesis 3:19 Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. As posted already the Spirit (breath of life) returns back to God when we die the first death (see previous sections where this is already discussed)

I think the key things... you miss from Scripture is a 'direct' reading OF them, and that you instead do an 'indirect' speculation of them.

As Jesus said in Matthew 10:28, don't fear those who can kill the flesh BUT NOT THE SOUL. That means one's SOUL also goes back to God WITH that spirit of Eccl.12:7. Your 'indirect' reading of Eccl.12:7 skipped that, proving my point.

According to the scriptures, Gods people receive a new body which is a heavenly one at the second coming and the resurrection of the dead as flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven. Paul shows this a little further what he is discussing here in 1 Corinthians 15:50-57. The other body is given to us at the second coming and the resurrection of Gods' people at this time. I think it might help you if you look at the Hebrew and Greek meanings of Spirit and soul. Go look them up.

Yes, ALL in both the resurrection of life and... the resurrection of damnation, are resurrected to their ALREADY EXISTING "spiritual body", the house not made with hands which Apostle Paul explained already exists in 2 Corinthians 5...

2 Cor 5:1
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
KJV

Paul explained this already existing "spiritual body" in the 1 Corinthians 15 Chapter too...

1 Cor 15:44
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
KJV

The meaning is that there already 'is'... both a flesh body, and a spiritual body existing in our makeup. What do brethren actually think is 'born again' through Faith on Jesus Christ? Not our flesh body, God forbid! Have brethren sunken so low in understanding God's Word today that they think His Salvation is of the flesh?!? (the deceived Jews still believe that junk, but that's just a tradition from old, and not what God's Word actually reveals.)

When we die, our spiritual body simply steps out of our flesh body. Our spiritual body is OF the heavenly dimension. The "silver cord" Solomon pointed to is what keeps our spiritual body connected with our flesh body while we are alive on this earth. At flesh death that cord is severed, and our spiritual body is loosed from our flesh. Our flesh then perishes, decaying back to the earthly elements where it came from. Our flesh does not make up our soul nor our spirit, nor can it, because the flesh is only of this earthly dimension, and not the heavenly. This is so simple.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I think the key things... you miss from Scripture is a 'direct' reading OF them, and that you instead do an 'indirect' speculation of them.

As Jesus said in Matthew 10:28, don't fear those who can kill the flesh BUT NOT THE SOUL. That means one's SOUL also goes back to God WITH that spirit of Eccl.12:7. Your 'indirect' reading of Eccl.12:7 skipped that, proving my point.



Yes, ALL in both the resurrection of life and... the resurrection of damnation, are resurrected to their ALREADY EXISTING "spiritual body", the house not made with hands which Apostle Paul explained already exists in 2 Corinthians 5...

2 Cor 5:1
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
KJV

Paul explained this already existing "spiritual body" in the 1 Corinthians 15 Chapter too...

1 Cor 15:44
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
KJV

The meaning is that there already 'is'... both a flesh body, and a spiritual body existing in our makeup. What do brethren actually think is 'born again' through Faith on Jesus Christ? Not our flesh body, God forbid! Have brethren sunken so low in understanding God's Word today that they think His Salvation is of the flesh?!? (the deceived Jews still believe that junk, but that's just a tradition from old, and not what God's Word actually reveals.)

When we die, our spiritual body simply steps out of our flesh body. Our spiritual body is OF the heavenly dimension. The "silver cord" Solomon pointed to is what keeps our spiritual body connected with our flesh body while we ar e alive on this earth. At flesh death that cord is severed, and our spiritual body is loosed from our flesh. Our flesh then perishes, decaying back to the earthly elements where it came from. Our flesh does not make up our soul nor our spirit, nor can it, because the flesh is only of this earthly dimension, and not the heavenly. This is so simple.

Nice try as Jesus Resurrected body is literal flesh and bones. He is still a man in heaven with a real material physical flesh and bone body.

Luke 24:39-40
"See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." 40 And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.

John 20:27-28
27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"


Acts 1:3-11
After his suffering, he showed himself to these men and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
6 So when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"7 He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.


10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

conclusion: Jesus is still a real man, a human with a real body, soul and spirit. Your view is heterodox.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Davy]

Perhaps it might be a good idea for you to look at the Hebrew and Greek word meaning of Hades, Hell etc as all it means here most passages of the bible is an unseen place in reference to the grave. This word is found in the English Testament twenty-three times. But in the Greek Testament there are three different words, hades, gehenna and tartarus, signifying different places, all rendered by the one English word, “hell.” Thus, hades is used eleven times in the original, and is rendered “hell” ten times and “grave” once.

Nah, I'm well familiar with the differences in the Hebrew and Greek where the English word "hell" is used. It's not that difficult and does not change anything... of what I've said. Why? Because I explained the usage of "hell" in the Matthew 10:28 Scripture to show Jesus was pointing to the future "lake of fire" destruction at the end of Revelation 20.

So I don't need your vain assumption that I don't know what I'm talking about in Scripture.

It is claimed that the Saviour, in giving the warning recorded in Matthew 10:28 and Luke 12:4, 5, taught the continued existence of the soul in death.

Not a claim. He actually did reveal the continuance of the soul after flesh death in those Scriptures. And you cannot... change it! Otherwise the second part He mentioned, about The Father being the One Who can still destroy one's soul in geena ("hell", but really the future "lake of fire"), would be meaningless.

That He should speak nothing of the punishment of the soul in its disembodied state in hades, if such punishment really takes place, is very remarkable; for here, more than anywhere else in the Bible, is there evidence of the continued existence of the soul while the body is under the power of death. Yet while expressly stating the terrible fate of the lost, and that, too, in such connection as would especially call out the fact, if it were a fact, that the souls of the wicked exist in a place of dreadful suffering, between death and the resurrection, the Savior says not one word concerning the sufferings of the soul in its disembodied state, but confines His warning to that which shall be inflicted upon “both soul and body in hell,” that is, in gehenna, thus showing that the retribution against which He warns us comes after the resurrection, and not before.

Well, you've left the actual Scripture to instead go on a travel trip to Alice In Wonderland with your indirect reading of Scripture. The abode of the wicked called 'hades', is NOT... the future "lake of fire" event. And Jesus DID... speak of punishment of the soul in hades after flesh death, you simply DENY it. He gave that info in the story of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16, which in one of your posts you have denied was actual Truth, right?

So according to you, Peter lied in 1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4 when he revealed that Jesus during His resurrection went to hades and preached to the "spirits in prison", and those lived according to God in the spirit (1 Peter 4:6). What about the spirits still in hades that still refused to believe Jesus when He preached to them? Jesus gave the example in Luke 16 with the rich man, but you refuse to believe it in favor of keeping your tradition of men.