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The Thief On The Cross

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by pablosrun, Mar 22, 2005.

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  1. Philip

    Philip Orthodoxy: Old School, Hard Core Christianity

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    A place for the righteous to wait.
     
  2. JohnJones

    JohnJones Well-Known Member

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    pablosrun, you can't just move commas around however you want. The answer to the seeming contradiction is that paradise is Abraham's bosom in the center of the earth (remember the Bible says that Jesus would be three days in the heart of the earth as Jonah was in the fish) and is not in heaven. So Jesus went to paradise in the heart of the earth for three days. then was resurrected, then went to heaven. So, yes the thief went with him to paradise that very day.
     
  3. PaladinValer

    PaladinValer Traditional Orthodox Anglican

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    Sheol isn't in the center of the Earth; its an entirely different realm...
     
  4. tqpix

    tqpix Deist

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    Jesus didn't die on Friday and the sabbath was not the weekly sabbath.

    Mark 6:1: And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

    How can the women prepare the spices before the sabbath when they never bought those spices until AFTER the sabbath. The answer: Two different sabbaths--one annual (the Feast of the Unleavened Bread), and one weekly; the spices were bought AFTER the annual sabbath and prepared BEFORE the weekly sabbath--i.e. the spices were bought and prepared on a Friday.
     
  5. JohnJones

    JohnJones Well-Known Member

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    "(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?" (Eph 4:9)

    "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
    (Mat 12:40)

    "For thou wilt not leave my soul in sheol; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." (Psa 16:10)

    "Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hades,neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption...He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hades, neither his flesh did see corruption." (Acts 2:27-31)

    Apparently sheol/hades IS in the center of the earth.
     
  6. PaladinValer

    PaladinValer Traditional Orthodox Anglican

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    The only thing that exists in the center of the Earth is an iron core. Please study your geology.
     
  7. A Brethren IN CHRIST

    A Brethren IN CHRIST Well-Known Member

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    Yeah and man was right about the earth being flat.....

    put your faith in man's wisdom...ha ha... 1 cor 1:19-21

    even thou I am foolish of thing of this world.....weak, common,things despised I can glorifiy in the Lord.........1 cor 26-31
     
  8. holo

    holo former Christian

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    I'm sure Jesus took the time to get the thief up to heaven before He descended to hell or whatever your particular (and extremely irrelevant) theology claims.
    In any case the point of the story is that the thief believed in Jesus and thus was saved. He didn't have the time to figure out the theology behind it. He probably didn't even think it would make a difference that he believed.
     
  9. Lynn73

    Lynn73 Jesus' lamb

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    That's what the JW Bible says. They moved the comma to support their doctrine. I think Jesus meant just what He said.
     
  10. pablosrun

    pablosrun Member

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    First of all it,s Mark 16:1 not 6:1 and it says had bought past tense, So they bought them before the sabbath. The preparation day (Luke 23:54) refers to the day before the weekly sabbath, and when a weekly sabbath fell on an annual sabbath it was a high sabbath, and that is what this was!
     
  11. pablosrun

    pablosrun Member

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    There wasn't any punctuation in the days the text was originally written.So do you know where the commas are supposed to go?????????????

    Show the scripture where it says paradise is Abrahams bosom and is seperate from heaven.....
     
  12. pablosrun

    pablosrun Member

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    Read the textus receptus(not sure on the spelling)there wasn't any punctuation....read 1Corinthians 15..We dont put on immortality until the last trump when Jesus comes so how could the thief be there that day, unless he put on immortality?

    1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye,at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptable, and we shall be changed.
    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
    This clearly states when we will put on immortality!

    So if you remove the punctuation you can understand it either way, but if you use other scripture to interpret scripture you take man out of the loop therefore you take error out of the loop....
     
  13. PaladinValer

    PaladinValer Traditional Orthodox Anglican

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    Where? Like I said before, it is the theological belief of 1st century ce Jews and Christians as documented in history, period.
     
  14. A Brethren IN CHRIST

    A Brethren IN CHRIST Well-Known Member

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    there are three bodies on can recieve...

    a tent...body on earth... 2 peter 1:14
    a house .. 2 cor 5:1....man on the cross has this body
    no one get a glorified body till the rapture.... then look at 2 cor 5:8

    a mansion john 14:1-3
     
  15. pablosrun

    pablosrun Member

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    Lets look at John 14 1-3
    It says He Jesus goes to prepare a place for and then he will come again to receive us unto himself that were he is there ye may be also...

    why would he have to come and receive us to where he is, if we are already there with him...It's because we are not with him..

    and 2Cor 5:8 says he is willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord...

    Doesn't say absence from the body is presence with the Lord as so many peaple state..

    Read John Chapter 11 verse 11 Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep....

    verse 14 Lazarus is dead

    So if Lazarus was dead he would be in Heaven in your explanation?

    Why would Jesus bring him back from heaven? To this evil world??

    Read on Lazarus's sister Martha is talking with Jesus

    John11:23, Jesus said unto her,They brother shall rise again.
    24, Martha said unto him, Iknow that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

    So now what do you think?:confused:
     
  16. Oblio

    Oblio Creed or Chaos

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    :doh:

    Of course it was past tense, they could not have brought the spices if they had not already purchased them. :doh: The tense is silent WRT when they purchased the spices.
     
  17. pablosrun

    pablosrun Member

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    So then it is unclear when they bought them all we know is that they bought them some time before this point....
     
  18. A Brethren IN CHRIST

    A Brethren IN CHRIST Well-Known Member

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    2 cor 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle[tent] were dissolved[died] we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens

    2 cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to present facing the Lord.


    no waiting
     
  19. pablosrun

    pablosrun Member

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    Study the word sleep...you quoted me last post but did you read it..you are blinded:cool:
     
  20. JohnJones

    JohnJones Well-Known Member

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    Greek Grammar! kai (and) eipen (He said) autwi (to him) o ihsous (Jesus) amhn (truly) legw (I say) soi (to you) shmeron (today) met (with) emou (me) esh (you will be) en (in) tw paradeisw (paradise) -- If you know Greek grammar then you know that the comma has to be placed after the word today.

    It is the body that dies. It is therefore the body that must put on immortality. When the thief went to paradise (Abraham's bosom) he went just as Abraham and Lazarus as a spirit without a body. This is why Abraham's bosom exists--its a place for the righteous dead to go and await the resurrection, at which point they will put on immortality in their new bodies.
     
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