The Thief On The Cross

[pablosrun]

Hello Believers in Christ,

In the story of the thief on the cross it sounds like he is going to paradise that day.
Is this what really happened????????????
Did Jesus tell him he would be with him in heaven(paradise) that day?

Lets take a look


If you study the verse carfully that is not what Jesus said...remember in those days there was no punctuation....here is the verse

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee , Today thou shalt be with me in paradise.

Hmm souds like thats what he is saying, but did Jesus go to paradise that day.
What does the bible say, in the same chapter of Luke(23) and verse 54; And that day(good Friday the day Jesus died)was the preparation,and the sabbath (Saturday) drew on.55;And the woman also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulcher, and how his bodywas laid. 56;And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.(Saturday not Sunday)

So Jesus wasn't in paradise that day, he died on good Friday, rested in the tomb on sabbath (Saturday) and rose the 3rd day on Sunday(the 1st day of the week), so how could the thief be with him.

Now on Sunday when Mary went to the tomb to find Jesus and Jesus speaks to her he says in John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her Touch me not;for I am not yet ascended to my father...

This verse proves the thief was not with him in paradise because Jesus himself had not yet ascended..


Remember there was no punctuation in those days so lets read that verse again and move the comma over to it's proper place..

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee Today, thou shalt be with me in paradise.

What he is saying is that Today I say to you, you will be with me in paradise.

TRUTH Yes or No!!!!!


Pablosrun@sbcglobal.net

 

[Philip]

Did Jesus tell him he would be with him in heaven(paradise) that day?

Many of us will disagree with your identification of heaven with paradise.

 

[Veritas]

In addition, the "thief's" soul did not sleep as SDA's and JW's contend. The soul or spirit cannot "sleep".

 

[PaladinValer]

Paradise, in 1st century Jewish theology (and consequency 1st century Christian theology), was the half of sheol that was the abode of those souls that were righteous. They were not asleep.

Soul sleep/death is a heresy.

 

[zaire]

I always took that the theif would actually be with Jesus in heaven.
When Jesus died on the cross he died for everyones sins. So that meant that all the people that were on the righteous persons side of the sheol had their sins they had commited washed away and thus then were able to enter heaven.

Thats what i thought.

 

[PaladinValer]

bytheway, no one goes right to heaven or hell.

Doing so negates the reason for the Judgment, which doesn't happen until the Resurrection. So therefore, it couldn't be a Resurrection, which doesn't happen until the Second Coming. So therefore, there wouldn't be a Second Coming.

See where this is going? It goes into heresy...

 

[Philip]

I always took that the theif would actually be with Jesus in heaven.
When Jesus died on the cross he died for everyones sins. So that meant that all the people that were on the righteous persons side of the sheol had their sins they had commited washed away and thus then were able to enter heaven.

Thats what i thought.

Christ descended into Shoel to free lead them out.

 

[12volt_man]

Hello Believers in Christ,

In the story of the thief on the cross it sounds like he is going to paradise that day.
Is this what really happened????????????
Did Jesus tell him he would be with him in heaven(paradise) that day?

Lets take a look


If you study the verse carfully that is not what Jesus said...remember in those days there was no punctuation....here is the verse

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee , Today thou shalt be with me in paradise.

Hmm souds like thats what he is saying, but did Jesus go to paradise that day.
What does the bible say, in the same chapter of Luke(23) and verse 54; And that day(good Friday the day Jesus died)was the preparation,and the sabbath (Saturday) drew on.55;And the woman also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulcher, and how his bodywas laid. 56;And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.(Saturday not Sunday)

So Jesus wasn't in paradise that day, he died on good Friday, rested in the tomb on sabbath (Saturday) and rose the 3rd day on Sunday(the 1st day of the week), so how could the thief be with him.

Now on Sunday when Mary went to the tomb to find Jesus and Jesus speaks to her he says in John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her Touch me not;for I am not yet ascended to my father...

This verse proves the thief was not with him in paradise because Jesus himself had not yet ascended..


Remember there was no punctuation in those days so lets read that verse again and move the comma over to it's proper place..

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee Today, thou shalt be with me in paradise.

What he is saying is that Today I say to you, you will be with me in paradise.

TRUTH Yes or No!!!!!


Pablosrun@sbcglobal.net

Aside from the obvious textual and linguistic backflips you're having to do, there's also a logical one.

Why would Jesus have to tell the theif that He was telling him this, that day, when Jesus is face to face with the guy?

Who talks like this? "Honey, I'm telling you today, I'm going to Home Depot." Of course you're telling me today. We already know this by virtue of the fact that it's today and you're telling me.

Maybe you have Jesus confused with George Costanza. Sounds more like something he'd say.

 

[pablosrun]

Aside from the obvious textual and linguistic backflips you're having to do, there's also a logical one.

Why would Jesus have to tell the theif that He was telling him this, that day, when Jesus is face to face with the guy?

Who talks like this? "Honey, I'm telling you today, I'm going to Home Depot." Of course you're telling me today. We already know this by virtue of the fact that it's today and you're telling me.

Maybe you have Jesus confused with George Costanza. Sounds more like something he'd say.

Just answer this, if Jesus was in paradise on the day he died, why did he tell Mary he had not ascended, on the day he rose, 3 days later...No backflips here, Kramer, Just bible fact!

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Hello Believers in Christ,

In the story of the thief on the cross it sounds like he is going to paradise that day.
Is this what really happened????????????
Did Jesus tell him he would be with him in heaven(paradise) that day?

2 cor 5:7 we are confident , I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord

 

[pablosrun]

Aside from the obvious textual and linguistic backflips you're having to do, there's also a logical one.

Why would Jesus have to tell the theif that He was telling him this, that day, when Jesus is face to face with the guy?

Who talks like this? "Honey, I'm telling you today, I'm going to Home Depot." Of course you're telling me today. We already know this by virtue of the fact that it's today and you're telling me.

Maybe you have Jesus confused with George Costanza. Sounds more like something he'd say.

Luke 19:5 Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down;for today I must abide at thy house.


So what is he saying here?????????????

Hey Zack cmon down so I can stay at your house next advent???

 

[Philip]

Just answer this, if Jesus was in paradise on the day he died, why did he tell Mary he had not ascended, on the day he rose, 3 days later

Paradise != Heaven

 

[12volt_man]

Just answer this, if Jesus was in paradise on the day he died, why did he tell Mary he had not ascended, on the day he rose, 3 days later...No backflips here, Kramer, Just bible fact!

I think you're laboring under the impression that Paradise is Heaven. It's not.

 

[12volt_man]

Luke 19:5 Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down;for today I must abide at thy house.


So what is he saying here?????????????

Hey Zack cmon down so I can stay at your house next advent???

Obviously, he's telling Zacchaeus that He wants to meet with him that very day, just as He's telling the theif on the cross that he will be in Paradise with Christ that very day.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Obviously, he's telling Zacchaeus that He wants to meet with him that very day, just as He's telling the theif on the cross that he will be in Paradise with Christ that very day.

what did JC do that very day .....

took all believers to the third heaven....

 

[shernren]

Where else does the Bible talk about paradise? I get the feeling we read too much out of individual words or passages.

 

[PaladinValer]

Paradise is also known as "Abraham's Bosom"

 

[Kepha]

Paradise was the waiting place where all the righteous who died before Jesus' sacrifice waited for Him to redeem them. Paradise was located in Hades until the Ascension of our Lord. It was Paradise precisely because it was at that time the place of the righteous spirits awaited with Jesus.

Or simply perhaps because God exists outside space and time 3 days here could be instantaniously to the thief.

 

[gord44]

Obviously, he's telling Zacchaeus that He wants to meet with him that very day, just as He's telling the theif on the cross that he will be in Paradise with Christ that very day.

not everything is in man's perception of time......God's time is alot different......today could have meant this whole age.....i doubt days in Paradise are anything like days on earth

 

[Ave Maria]

Ok, if Paradise was not Heaven then what was it?