The Sun Revolves Around The Earth: Scripture Cannot Lie

[JacobLaw]

Originally Posted by JacobLaw
I pretty sure he does not, as most, because of the cognitive dissonance that shuts down critical thinking as soon as it challenges their normalcy bias.
You should not make big post they don't read them and most likely unable to assimilate the points you are making.

Hegelian Dialectic
Cognitive Dissonance
Normalcy Bias


Terms you may want to know to understand why people reject the bible for men's science falsely called.

For they have rejected the precepts of God and are now taught by the precepts of men.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

It's a viable experiment. You claim they use geocentric data in their calculations. Well, let's test it. Remove all data points referring to heliocentric figures, replace it with geocentric figures, and launch a rocket into space to slingshot around the moon and return to earth.

If you are right, it should return in short order.

If you are wrong, it will end up on a random asteroid, or worse yet, in the center of the sun.

I am not the source of the fact that NASA uses geocentric data for launches of spacecraft. I learned it from Sungenis, whose book I have, so sorry, go fight with someone else.

As to your fight against God: it is most interesting that you just flat out deny the Truth of the Scriptures from the beginning.
The Genesis record states that there were no heavens stretched out from the globe until day 2 of creation week.
There was no sun nor moon set in them until day 4 of creation week.
Not only that, but the stars that fall from heaven in Revelation in the tribulation fall down to this earth -their point of origin!

 

[JacobLaw]

Also, I live in the Church that canonized that Scripture with thousands of martyrs dying so that you can even hear the holy and powerful NAME of Christ.

Don't mock my Scripture by declaring it to be opposed to science

And those thousands of martyrs rejected your beliefs, you mock their very existence. It is clearly you who mocks the scriptures of the word of God and their memory, the Christian Church has always been Geocentric.

 

[JacobLaw]

I am not the source of the fact that NASA uses geocentric data for launches of spacecraft. I learned it from Sungenis, whose book I have, so sorry, go fight with someone else.

As to your fight against God: it is most interesting that you just flat out deny the Truth of the Scriptures from the beginning.
The Genesis record states that there were no heavens stretched out from the globe until day 2 of creation week.
There was no sun nor moon set in them until day 4 of creation week.
Not only that, but the stars that fall from heaven in Revelation in the tribulation fall down to this earth -their point of origin!

Like I said he doesn't stop, it is his modus operandi, he seems to have an implied immunity due to the commonality of the majorities belief.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

... Or is Jesus a goat?

The goats of the Day of Atonement served to type God come in flesh...you cannot compare types as the Word gives them to the creation account and pretend there is something typed in the Genesis record that is not truth and reality of what is.

As to typing, the sun was made on day 4 of creation to type and shadow the New Man creation human being flesh of God the Word, who was to come in the fourth millennial Day of creation as the Glory of God, and the actual "Sun of Righteousness" who bears the Unseen Glory of the invisible just like the created sun is the source of our seeing the glory of the light of creation, for the sun is not a light creator, but the light bearer who sends it out as it flows into it.

 

[sculleywr]

Originally Posted by JacobLaw
I pretty sure he does not, as most, because of the cognitive dissonance that shuts down critical thinking as soon as it challenges their normalcy bias.
You should not make big post they don't read them and most likely unable to assimilate the points you are making.

Let's take a look at the following:

Hegelian Dialectic

Hegelian dialectic, usually presented in a threefold manner, was stated by Heinrich Moritz Chalybäus as comprising three dialectical stages of development: a thesis, giving rise to its reaction, an antithesis, which contradicts or negates the thesis, and the tension between the two being resolved by means of a synthesis.
​

The thesis here is that the Earth is the center of the universe, based on a 16th century interpreting of the Bible.
The antithesis is that we have seen the earth moving. Everything about the mathematical model of the universe assumes the earth moves at a constant speed. Without the motion of the earth, compasses physically would not work. Oh, and the sun would bake us into a nice crispy layer of melted us. Here is what would happen if the earth did not spin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH3bmG-KjvU

I'm kind of glad the earth spins. I'd like to not be scorched.

Cognitive Dissonance

The inability to incorporate new knowledge is the very foundation of geocentrism. You read every original piece of information as false because your personal interpretation of Scripture is holier than Scripture itself.

 

[sculleywr]

The goats of the Day of Atonement served to type God come in flesh...you cannot compare types as the Word gives them to the creation account and pretend there is something typed in the Genesis record that is not truth and reality of what is.

As to typing, the sun was made on day 4 of creation to type and shadow the New Man creation human being flesh of God the Word, who was to come in the fourth millennial Day of creation as the Glory of God, and the actual "Sun of Righteousness" who bears the Unseen Glory of the invisible just like the created sun is the source of our seeing the glory of the light of creation, for the sun is not a light creator, but the light bearer who sends it out as it flows into it.

Finally something we agree on. If the Scripture is not lying when it says Jesus is a goat because it is using a type, why would interpreting the figures of speech as non-literal be wrong?

Figures of speech are just ways people speak. I still say "from the rising of the sun to the setting of the same" in personal prayer, despite my knowledge of how physics works.

See, I believe the Bible. But I do not limit science or how science works to fitting in every literal interpretation of Scripture.

If we understand those phrases as demarcations of time, and not scientific statements, then there is no contradiction or lie. There is no falsehood. And it isn't rationalizing. It is taking what we have seen and measured and tasted and applying it to the Bible. The Bible is not always making scientifically literal statements.

 

[Keachian]

This thread is evidence that the militant literalist is no better than the millitant atheist in their quest to show that the Christian faith is not intellectually credible and existentially satisfying, the object of the Christian faith for both these groups is not the work of Christ but the credibility of a modern reading of the Bible.

 

[sculleywr]

I am not the source of the fact that NASA uses geocentric data for launches of spacecraft. I learned it from Sungenis, whose book I have, so sorry, go fight with someone else.

Sungenis is wrong. His book is spurious and doesn't have any real science. Real science requires observation and experimentation, these little things that NASA does all the time. NASA isn't the only group that does this. Every company that has a satellite in orbit uses a heliocentric model of the universe.

Sungenis's theory assumes that NASA is part of a huge conspiracy against the truth. They aren't. I've met the first American who ever orbited the earth, John Glenn. The moon is the only object in space that has a geocentric orbit that wasn't put in space by man. Of course GPS satellites have Geo-synchronous orbits, always remaining above the same place on earth, but their clocks actually are set to run slower, to compensate for general and special relativity.

As to your fight against God: it is most interesting that you just flat out deny the Truth of the Scriptures from the beginning.
The Genesis record states that there were no heavens stretched out from the globe until day 2 of creation week.

I didn't reject any of that. I haven't said SQUAT about the creation. I was speaking about your explanation of creation, which is about as based in real science as lightsabers and Death Stars.

 

[SG9]

I am not the source of the fact that NASA uses geocentric data for launches of spacecraft. I learned it from Sungenis, whose book I have, so sorry, go fight with someone else.

As to your fight against God: it is most interesting that you just flat out deny the Truth of the Scriptures from the beginning.
The Genesis record states that there were no heavens stretched out from the globe until day 2 of creation week.
There was no sun nor moon set in them until day 4 of creation week.
Not only that, but the stars that fall from heaven in Revelation in the tribulation fall down to this earth -their point of origin!

What goes up must come down.

What is trodden will be exalted, and what is exalted will be trodden, it's a flipping of the inverted Cross to Upright, and it all plays out. The Cross will be upright and the mount of olives restored as in the spiritual mind, the two halves of the seed as in the mind, the male and female, the east and the west and all hanging the stars in correct order, the ten commandments.

The Ten horn beast is an image of an inverted mind/spirit, and is also a symbol for the Gentile mind that has a law unto themselves, which is the law but reformed and inverted. All of the imagery can be seen in the functions of the Cross.

The 4th day was as God pinning the horizontal beam on the vertical beam of the Cross that He's constructing in this scene of Ch 1 Genesis, and the Cross is the image of Him and His law that He designed to write in us, our mind's.

The 4th commandment is the intersection of the two beams, and a lot more and I've written this already. It's all about restoring the mind's of the human race, which is our new mind that He promised, and the new Spirit that He promised; this said, are we promised a geocentric orbit, only, or both in cosmic nature and human conscience?

I know that our minds and spirits are to be renewed. This is pushed off as some geocentric orbit that cosmic nature, though man can't see it, and although he touches it. God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge, and that speaks for our mind's, and not the tangible cosmos.

It's all symbolism, and propaganda, it's alchemy of philosophy and man's twisted imaginations that could not understand the didactic language. The dialectic mind is carnal, while the didactic mind is spiritual, they are two worlds apart. Now, where should we look for these two worlds?

Do I look through a telescope to see the spiritual things?

Thanks

 

[Gnarwhal]

All proponents of geocentrism need to read Counterknowledge by Damian Thompson. Fact.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

 

[Jipsah]

Look at the tower of Babel for example.
How is what we are doing today any different?

No tower, and nobody trying to physically reach Heaven.

Nowadays humans don't want to build there way to the heavens, they want to be God straight up.

Always did.

I used to play with math too, but it will only result in existentialism...

Then you don't believe that existence precedes essence? Hmmmm...

Ya ever read anything by Kierkegaard? Ought to, he's a good 'un.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

., but I'm going to point out the post about Joshua "giving science to Egypt".. no.. no.. and double no. Egypt's sciences were around long before the hebrews got there. The pyramids were already standing for a long time before joshua came around there.

Do you mean to say Joseph?

You err in what Egypt was and how long it had been around and when it came into its glory, as to Bible truth.
Egypt is the English for Hebrew Mitzraim, and Mitzraim is a son of Ham, who was on the Ark and brother to Shem.

Gen 10:6 And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim [Egypt], and Phut, and Canaan.

Noah died age 950, and lived 350 years after the flood.
About 9 years before Noah died, the tower of Babel fell, when Abraham was about 49.

Mitzraim then built a city named after himself, which became the name of the surrounding land to it, which is "Egypt" today, but "Mitzraim" back then, to them...
So about 241 years after the flood, the tribes scattered, and the patriarchs of the tribes generally named the cities they built when they scattered over the earth after themselves, or after particular happenings they wanted to commemorate.

So Abraham was about 49 when the tower fell and men scattered and began building cities where they scattered to.
Shem lived about 261 years after the tower fell.


Shem died when Jacob was 50.
Isaac was 110 when Shem died.
Isaac died age 180.
Isaac died 7 years before Jacob entered Egypt at age 127.

Joseph had been there already 22 years, and was ruling for 9 years on the throne of Egypt.

The glory of Egypt was the glory Egypt got by Joseph's wise rule for 80 years.

Moses, the son of Jochebed, daughter of Levi, was born 48 years after Joseph died, and Egypt was totally destroyed when Moses was 82; so from the fall of the tower and the scattering of the tribes to Israel's departure from Egypt was only 451 years.

The glory of Egypt and its demise happened in those 451 years, and Joseph led it into its glory while he ruled for 80 years, and Israel built Ramses, as slaves, after Joseph died.

 

[Keachian]

Do you mean to say Joseph?

You err in what Egypt was and how long it had been around and when it came into its glory, as to Bible truth.
Egypt is the English for Hebrew Mitzraim, and Mitzraim is a son of Ham, who was on the Ark and brother to Shem.

Gen 10:6 And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim [Egypt], and Phut, and Canaan.

Noah died age 950, and lived 350 years after the flood.
About 9 years before Noah died, the tower of Babel fell, when Abraham was about 49.

Mitzraim then built a city named after himself, which became the name of the surrounding land to it, which is "Egypt" today, but "Mitzraim" back then, to them...
So about 241 years after the flood, the tribes scattered, and the patriarchs of the tribes generally named the cities they built when they scattered over the earth after themselves, or after particular happenings they wanted to commemorate.

So Abraham was about 49 when the tower fell and men scattered and began building cities where they scattered to.
Shem lived about 261 years after the tower fell.


Shem died when Jacob was 50.
Isaac was 110 when Shem died.
Isaac died age 180.
Isaac died 7 years before Jacob entered Egypt at age 127.

Joseph had been there already 22 years, and was ruling for 9 years on the throne of Egypt.

The glory of Egypt was the glory Egypt got by Joseph's wise rule for 80 years.

Moses, the son of Jochebed, daughter of Levi, was born 48 years after Joseph died, and Egypt was totally destroyed when Moses was 82; so from the fall of the tower and the scattering of the tribes to Israel's departure from Egypt was only 451 years.

The glory of Egypt and its demise happened in those 451 years, and Joseph led it into its glory while he ruled for 80 years, and Israel built Ramses, as slaves, after Joseph died.

You have your timeline very skewed,
Israel was in slavery for about 290 years by my reckoning there is little evidence of there being so short a time between Joseph's Death and the Call of Moses.

 

[mmksparbud]

The goats of the Day of Atonement served to type God come in flesh...you cannot compare types as the Word gives them to the creation account and pretend there is something typed in the Genesis record that is not truth and reality of what is.

As to typing, the sun was made on day 4 of creation to type and shadow the New Man creation human being flesh of God the Word, who was to come in the fourth millennial Day of creation as the Glory of God, and the actual "Sun of Righteousness" who bears the Unseen Glory of the invisible just like the created sun is the source of our seeing the glory of the light of creation, for the sun is not a light creator, but the light bearer who sends it out as it flows into it.

Are you saying that the sun is a representation of Jesus Christ, the Son of God??--And Jesus then is the light bearer, not the actual light, that gives us the light of God??--I'm not sure I've got you right--if that is true, then Jesus Christ, the Son of Almighty God is not the center of our galaxy--our solar system, we--represented by the earth- are the center. And that is according to Enoch, who got it from God. Did I get that right??

So are you then saying that Jesus/God (the sun) revolves around us (the earth) which is not as we've been led to believe which is-- We (the earth) who revolve around God (the sun)??

I just sort of prefer to have my world and my life revolve around God, the Father and Jeus Christ, His Son. It is His light that draws us to Him and saves us. I can't see us drawing ourselves to Him so He can save us. He is knocking on our door--we are not knocking on His.
Do you accept the rest of the bible as scripture, or just the book of Enoch?

 

[mmksparbud]

You have your timeline very skewed,
Israel was in slavery for about 290 years by my reckoning there is little evidence of there being so short a time between Joseph's Death and the Call of Moses.

Exo 12:40 Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.

 

[sculleywr]

YeshuaSavedMe, I find it a distinct honor to be seen as unfit to teach science by someone who holds to an invention of the 1st century Pagans, and not what we can see by asking the people who happen to be in space.

Because of NASA, we now have mirrors on the moon and can tell, down to a centimeter, just hjow far the moon is from the earth. We can also tell that the moon is slowly pulling away from the earth as a result of tidal friction, something that is only possible if the earth is moving.

The earth APPEARED to be the center of the universe because it is the center of what we can see. However, we can only see so far.

In addition, we can see that the universe is expanding. The Andromeda galaxy is pulling away from the Milky Way galaxy. From our perspective, it would appear the universe is expanding and we are at the center. But from the Andromeda galaxy, it would appear as if the Andromeda galaxy were the center.

The geocentric model, however, did not begin with the Bible. It began with the Pagan Greek philosopher Claudius Ptolemy.

 

[Keachian]

Exo 12:40 Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.

Yes, thank you, I do think that the "sojourning" is from when they come down to Israel out of Canaan (Gen 47) till when they left in Exodus (12:33ff) and so the time of enslavement would be smaller than in Ex 12:40

 

[sculleywr]

The sad thing about all of this is that in order to rationalize this whole belief, they have to invent elaborate conspiracy theories, or, crazier still and witnessed on this thread, create convoluted theories of physics that make absolutely no sense.


Case in point, confusing light and electricity. Electricity is the flow of electrons from point A to point B, whilst light is a stream of photons, tiny, massless particles that zip from electrons when they are excited as packets when an electron drops from a high energy state to a lower energy state.

But the OP author later declared that an electric world began when light was introduced.

Light can exist without electricity, as shown with fusion reactions in the sun. The light from that is actually released when PROTONS become so excited they fuse together into helium. This occurs because of the intense pressure and heat at the center of the sun.

Then she declares that "99.9% of the matter in the universe is plasma"

This is a bogus claim that is evidence that 5/6ths of statistics are made up right on the spot. Granted, MOST matter exists in the form of a plasma. However, the author denies that the very objects in which that matter resides even exist as objects, declaring them to be "angels": stars in the universe.

The reason most matter is plasma is because most matter exists within massive atom-smashing machines called stars. Some stars could hold a million earths. But many stars are actually smaller than earth. The smallest star, ironically, is the most powerful: a black hole. The point at which everything we know about physics just throws up its hands (significant figures?) and gives up. By our knowledge, time inside a black hole simply doesn't exist, and an infinity of matter can exist within an infinitesimal space. Thermonuclear explosions that would destroy our solar system occur thousands of times every second at the edge of the event horizon, sometimes becoming so powerful that great beams of energy and radiation blast out from the rapidly spinning magnetic poles of these tiny behemoths, with enough power to disintegrate our puny solar system if they were ever to occur in our galaxy.

And yet, our God is greater than even those giants.

Our God could pick up a black hole, fashion it into a coffee mug and drink a world's densest cup of Joe ever made.

Amen!

 

[Keachian]

Our God could pick up a black hole, fashion it into a coffee mug and drink a world's densest cup of Joe ever made.

QFT