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Featured THE SOUL: What is it?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by JIMINZ, Apr 8, 2018.

  1. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Mat 10:28 has traditionally become involved in discussions about the nature of life after death. Unfortunately it isn't as clear as some people think it is.

    Minimally, it distinguishes between our mortal body and our whole existence.

    It has commonly been understood, however, as speaking of a distinction between our body and our immortal soul. But this isn't stated, and is challenged by the statement that God can kill both in Gehenna.

    I would suggest a less specific understanding, that Jesus is distinguishing between a mortal existence and something larger, without saying specifically what it is.

    The Logos commentary on Matthew says "The persecutors may kill the body, but only God has power over the soul and thus the whole person." (The Hermeneia commentary is similar)
     
  2. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    The verses clearly show the separation. Paul is speaking of physical death and when that happens he would be present with the Lord.

    Again, no, Paul speaks of remaining in the body to continue the ministry but if he dies he is with the Lord.

    With both of these verses you are basically ignoring the "present with the Lord."

    If we reside in the dust as some argue then does not that bring Christ down to the dust? As Paul is quite clear after these bodies die we are present with the Lord.

    Call it what you want, the you, the me is present with the Lord when our mortal bodies reach "room temperature."

    The level of what some call consciousness is quite debatable, but the presence is not.

    Again no, Paul makes the distinction the outer man is perishing (ongoing) not the old nature. The only part of us perishing as sealed believers is the corruptible body. Thus he is making another distinction.
     
  3. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    One has nothing to do with the other. The two witnesses are taken up bodily.

    The story of Lazarus and the rich man neither is taken up bodily.
     
  4. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Explain. Are you indicating we have a spirit which can leave the body?
     
  5. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Is Jesus using fiction to teach? No he is not. He always taught within the understanding of the audience. The audience would recognize the two places for those deceased.

    Jesus even confirms to the criminal on the cross next to Him he would be in Paradise (bosom of Abraham) that very day.

    Luke 23: NKJV

    39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”

    40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”

    43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
     
  6. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Where's the presence of this dormant state?
     
  7. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Why did Paul think he would be present with the Lord when his body died?

    Why did Christ promise the criminal next to Him he would be in Paradise that day?
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    "The spirit returns to God who gave it" Eccl 12:7 -- heaven with God
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Did He?

    Luke 23
    42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
    43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

    John 20 "I have not yet ascended to My Father" -- said on resurrection Sunday
     
  10. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Today meant that day.

    And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. (Matthew 27:50)
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Did He?

    Luke 23
    42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
    43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly I say to you today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

    John 20 "I have not yet ascended to My Father" -- said on resurrection Sunday

    But not "in paradise today" -- rather "I say to you today"
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Paul never said "I will be present with the Lord when I die"
     
  13. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Can you show me which English translation has no comma before "today?"
     
  14. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Indeed he did. Unless one wants to wrest the Scriptures.

    If we are absent from the body that means we are no longer there. That would be our physical death. As we see in verse 1 of chapter 5 "For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed..."

    Paul the goes on to show his desire for his earthly tent to be shed for his resurrected body. The resurrection is always the message as our final deliverance and glorification. Yet he speaks of being present with the Lord upon death.

    6"So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."


    He clarified in Philippians 1:

    Philippians 1: NKJV

    21 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.
     
  15. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    No translation in English supports your view.

    As you present it, I think the dude dying next to Jesus knew it was today and since he and Jesus were bleeding and suffocating together, Jesus was not going to tell him another day other than "today."

    It makes absolutely no sense in any language.
     
  16. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    So what is your point, I have never said any different.
     
  17. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Again, at this point in the discussion I have no argument with what you say.

    My point is with the SOUL as opposed to the Body (Flesh), Spirit.

    What you have posted here does not speak to that.
     
  18. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Please forgive me if I mistook your comments.

    I concluded from your posts we would not be present with the Lord upon death and before the resurrection.
     
  19. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    To clarify, what is present with the Lord? The spirit as opposed to soul?
     
  20. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Again, at this point in the discussion I have no argument with what you say.

    My point is with the SOUL as opposed to the Body (Flesh), Spirit.

    What you have posted here, does not make any connection with the Soul.
     
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