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Featured THE SOUL: What is it?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by JIMINZ, Apr 8, 2018.

  1. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Have you read anything I have said on this subject?
     
  2. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Redlegedhunter, I post this again for your reading enjoyment.

    Here is my take on the questions about the Soul, which I asked in the OP

    .
    The use of the word (SOUL) in the Old Testament refers to the Physical Fleshly Body of man, which has been animated by the "Breath of Life" thus becoming a Living Soul.

    Gen 2:7
    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    Notice,
    1) The verse only speaks of the Physical aspect of man becoming alive,
    2) The verse does not speak of the Spiritual side of man in the same manor, because the Spirit which was Breathed into the man, is Life.

    The (Breath of Life) which is the Spirit of man, was breathed into the Physical Being (after having been formed of the dust of the ground).

    The Spirit of the man is what keeps it alive, the Spirit can live outside of the man, but when the Spirit leaves the man the (Body, Flesh, Soul) dies.

    The Soul is the combining of both the Body (Flesh) + Breath (Spirit), there is no SOUL unless both are present.

    The Soul does not exist by itself, apart from the Body.

    In the end of it all, I guess what I am saying is, the SOUL cannot die as such, because it is not a separate entity which can die, it only exists in conjunction with the (Body, Flesh) of man.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  3. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    It was a story, it was not true, Jesus had a point to make to them of that time, and he did, even when they didn't understand it the point was made.
     
  4. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    I'm not speaking to the issues of where we will be or how we will get there, I'm speaking to the SOUL in relation to the Human Being.
     
  5. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    That sir is part of the question I am posing.

    Are you saying the Spirit and the Soul are synonyms?

    I say they are not, I say the Spirit, is an entity unto itself, it comes from God and returns to God, the Spirit which resides in man is Immortal.

    The Body, is an entity unto itself, it is born and dies, only in the Physical Realm, it has no life in it until the Spirit indwells it, thus forming the Soul.

    But the question is, where is the Soul, where does it come from, where does it go when the human dies?

    I say the Soul of a man is formed when it is endowed by our Creator with a Spirit, the spirit is what Animates the Body (Flesh) it is only in the combining of the Physical Body which has been made from the Earth and for use only on the Earth, with the Spirit, at that moment, the Body is not only Flesh and Blood, but it has become a Living Soul, just as Adam was.

    Simply,
    The Body dies and is buried, returning to the Earth from which it was taken.
    The Spirit in a man when he dies returns to God from which it came.
    The Soul ceases to exist upon the death of the human, it was only formed by the combining of the Body (Flesh) and Spirit.
    One is rotted away, the other is in Heaven, there isn't a place for the Soul to go, it was formed (Born) upon a persons birth, and ceases to exist upon his death.
     
  6. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Thanks. I mistook your position as the soul sleep of the SDA and JWs. Thanks for the repost. You are using "spirit" in the same fashion as historic Christians use "soul."

    Which would still be the dichotomist view.

    What confused me was your use of spirit which is usually differentiated by trichotomists with both the body and soul.
     
  7. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    It should be noted at this point, when Jesus said Paradise, He was not necessarily speaking of Heaven as some might suppose.

    PARADISE: GREEK:
    G3857
    παράδεισος
    paradeisos
    par-ad'-i-sos
    Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.


    PARADISE:HEBREW:
    H6508
    פַּרְדֵּס
    pardês
    par-dace'
    Of foreign origin; a park: - forest, orchard.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  8. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    The point was made indeed. My point is Jesus did not teach something new about the afterlife the audience did not already understand or believe.

    The bosom of Abraham or Gan Eden was known by the audience in Luke 16. Also a place of suffering.

    The below is not to debate the definition of soul but to show the audience was familiar with what Jesus spoke of.

    Luke 16:22 John Gill:

    and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom:
    by Abraham's bosom is meant heaven, a phrase well known to the Jews, by which they commonly expressed the happiness of the future state: of Abraham's happy state they had no doubt; and when they spake of the happiness of another's, they sometimes signified it by going to Abraham; as when the mother of the seven sons, slain by Caesar, saw her youngest going to be sacrificed F16



    ``she fell upon him, and embraced him, and kissed him, and said unto him, my son, (Mkyba Mhrba lua Kl) , "go to Abraham, your father", and tell him, thus saith my mother''


    and sometimes, as here, by being in his bosom. So it is said F17, that Eliezer his servant (Abraham's, the same name with Lazarus) (wqyxb hnwm) , "is laid in his bosom": and which may refer to the account in the Talmud F18, that when R. Benaah, the painter of caves, came to the cave of Abraham, he found Eliezer, the servant of Abraham, (hymq yaqd) , "standing before him". And it is also said

    ``into which no man can enter but the righteous, whose souls are "carried" thither, (aykalm dyb) , "in the hand", or "by the means" of angels.''



    And elsewhere they say F21,


    ``with the Shekinah come three ministering angels to receive the soul of a righteous man.''


    Particularly it is said of Moses, at the time of his death F23, that


    ``the holy blessed God descended from the highest heavens, to take the soul of Moses, and three ministering angels with him.''


    And sometimes they say F24, not only three angels, but three companies of angels attend at such a time: their words are these;


    ``when a righteous man departs out of the world, three companies of ministering angels meet him; one says to him, "come in peace"; and another says, "walking in his uprightness" and the other says, "he shall enter into peace"''

    Luke 16:22 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible
     
  9. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    I don't necessarily identify myself with any set Group of thought or Theology, other than Christian, I only speak as I have been fortunate enough to understand.

    If what I Believe is what others in Christendom Believe, then all the better, I am then, still on the right track.

    I don't just voice what others have voiced, I voice those things which I have been shown through diligent study, and questioning.

    Thanks for the understanding of what I say.
    God Bless.
     
  10. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Look at my post # 107
     
  11. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    In the Hebrew and Greek they are in many cases.

    How you are using spirit is how most theologians throughout history has synonymously applied soul/spirit making no distinction. There is the body which dies and the 'thing' that is "us" departs to be present with the Lord.

    Most theologians call the 'thing that is us' as the immortal soul. You define the 'thing that is us' as the immortal spirit.

    My inquiries are not meant for debate but out of curiosity as I have not encountered your view before.

    How do you differentiate the various uses of nephesh, ruwach, chay (Hebrew) pneuma, zoe and psyche (Greek)?

    Again out of curiosity and know context of a passage does matter. 1 Thessalonians 5:23 is the only NT verse to mention soul and spirit in the same listing.
     
  12. Traveler 1

    Traveler 1 New Member

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    Well here are a few verses to shed some light on the subject. Seems the soul can go to hell and the spirit and soul can be divided.

    Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

    Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

    Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
     
  13. JohnRabbit

    JohnRabbit just trying to understand Supporter

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    don't need one!

    by looking at what Jesus said, in context, one can extrapolate that the paradise happens in the millennium to come! (read isa 2!)

    so it couldn't be the day of the Crucifixion!
     
  14. JohnRabbit

    JohnRabbit just trying to understand Supporter

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    **REPOST**

    by reading some posts so far, it seems that what the bible really says has been missed.

    God tells us what He is, which is a spirit being (jn 4:24).
    God has everlasting life and is able to create and sustain life.

    God tells us what angels are, spirit beings (ps 104:4).
    angels have everlasting life because spirit cannot die, however, angels cannot reproduce or create life.

    God tells us what man is, dust (gen 3:19)
    man is flesh and blood (gen 2:23-24) and not spirit. man possesses a temporary physio-chemical existence and therefore, is subject to death. man can reproduce himself in the physical sense, but cannot create life.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  15. JohnRabbit

    JohnRabbit just trying to understand Supporter

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    man's life is dependent on the environment in which God placed him.

    we all know that if we could literally jump into space that we would die (no air to breathe).

    in fact, man possesses the same type of life that the animals have, a temporary physio-chemical existence:


    Ecclesiastes 3:18-20(NKJV)
    18
    I said in my heart, Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.
    19For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity.
    20All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust.

    seems that abraham knew what he was. referring to himself, he said:

    Genesis 18:27(NKJV)
    27
    Then Abraham answered and said, Indeed now, I who am but dust and ashes have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord:

    i wonder why abraham didn't say that he was a spirit? :confused:

    that's because abraham believed God (gen 2:7, 3:19)!
     
  16. JohnRabbit

    JohnRabbit just trying to understand Supporter

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    the problem comes with understanding the spirit in man.

    automatically, it seems we want to believe we are a spirit, and moreover, a spirit in a physical body.

    we simply are not.

    God says so (3:19)!

    it also seems that some see gen 2:7 as showing that man is spiritual


    Genesis 2:7(NKJV)
    7
    And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

    Genesis 2:7(KJV)
    7
    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    the words "being" and "soul" are translated from the hebrew "nephesh".

    Strong's H5315

    נֶפֶשׁ

    nephesh

    neh'-fesh

    From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental):—any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

    a soul is a breathing creature!
     
  17. JohnRabbit

    JohnRabbit just trying to understand Supporter

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    what about the breath of life?

    is it man's spirit?

    no!

    it's the air we breathe. the air the animals breathe.

    as in, we don't breathe we die!

    speaking of the flood, the bible says:


    Genesis 7:21-22(KJV)
    21
    And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
    22All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

    and, remember?

    Ecclesiastes 3:19(NKJV)
    19
    ...Surely, they all have one breath...!

     
  18. JohnRabbit

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    now, maybe we can understand the spirit that's in man.

    Job 32:8(KJV)
    8
    But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

    1 Corinthians 2:11(NKJV)
    11
    For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

    the key question to ask?

    is the spirit in man alive?

    the answer is no!

    the man is alive (by breathing - nephesh), and God tells us how, when He told the COI that He didn't want them to eat blood:


    Leviticus 17:10-14(NKJV)
    10
    And whatever man of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell among you, who eats any blood, I will set My face against that person who eats blood, and will cut him off from among his people.
    11For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.

    Christ shed His blood for our sins!(lk 22:20)!

    12Therefore I said to the children of Israel, No one among you shall eat blood, nor shall any stranger who dwells among you eat blood.
    13Whatever man of the children of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell among you, who hunts and catches any animal or bird that may be eaten, he shall pour out its blood and cover it with dust;
    14for it is the life of all flesh. Its blood sustains its life. Therefore I said to the children of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.
     
  19. JohnRabbit

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    so, the spirit that is in man is not alive, rather, it imparts intellect to the brain.

    you, the breathing soul, are alive and reading this post and you understand what the post says due to the spirit in you that gives you the ability to understand.

    just like paul said (1cor 2:11)!

    this spirit in man allows us to have a relationship with God, because we can communicate with God because of it.

    notice this:


    2 Chronicles 36:22-23(NKJV)
    22
    Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying,
    23 Thus says Cyrus king of Persia:
    All the kingdoms of the earth the Lord God of heaven has given me. And He has commanded me to build Him a house at Jerusalem which is in Judah. Who is among you of all His people? May the Lord his God be with him, and let him go up!

    God got a message to king cyrus through his spirit!

    and also notice the the bible says "the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia", in other words, something that Cyrus possessed!

    another example:


    Ezra 1:5(NKJV)
    5
    Then the heads of the fathers houses of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests and the Levites, with all whose spirits God had moved, arose to go up and build the house of the Lord which is in Jerusalem.

    God communicated to these men through the spirit that gave them power of intellect!
     
  20. JohnRabbit

    JohnRabbit just trying to understand Supporter

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    now what happens at death?

    the flesh dies!


    Ezekiel 18:4(NKJV)
    4
    Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die.

    the soul or the air breathing man dies, remember man became a living soul (gen 2:7).

    and man's spirit, although not alive, goes back to God (eccl 12:7).

    and this:


    Ecclesiastes 9:10(NKJV)
    10
    Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going.

    so, it's simple.

    the soul or you, who are the soul, dies and goes to the grave (back to dust) and the spirit in you goes to God.
     
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