The "Saints" are More Righteous Than We Are...

[Maranatha27]

God accepts as we are, as unrighteous sinners, but He doesn't want us to stay that way
He loves us too much to let us stay in all that darkness.

I agree.

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=EmperorConstantine;When you go by Scripture only for all things, you may as well cut your tongue, pull out your eyes and give yourself a lobotomy since you are limiting yourself that much.

Actualy, that is the opposite of scriptural truth:
Mt 5:29 - And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

What about the Transfiguration?

That didn't take place in heaven.

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=Maranatha27;I got it from studying the Word. I will provide scripture if you like.

Sounds more like a lack of study.

Can I pray to Mary or a beloved Saint and they will relay my message to God?

Not according to scripture, but feel free to self-soothe that way if you must.

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=Mary of Bethany;And why, oh why, would you think we're sleepwalking, when we're in Christ??? Come on now, Rick - do you really think we're mindlessly sleepwalking, because we look to the Church. Scripture, and Tradition to make sure we stay in Christ, instead of "only" Scripture (which is really impossible anyway)?

Yes.

There are plenty of "strange Gospels" out there, but I know as long as I *mindfully* follow in the footsteps of those who have walked this path before me, I remain in Christ.

I agree that it's a pleasant thought.

 

[Catholic Christian]

The "Saints" are More Righteous Than We Are

Who is more righteous than people in heaven? Not me.

Just curious.

 

[CatholicFlame]

IN an other thread, I was told that God hears the "Saints"
'prayers' because they're more righteous, already being
in Heaven (if that's where they are).

Are the Saints in Heaven? Definately.

Are they more righteous than us who still can sin, for sure they are.

Does God prefer them over us?

Nope God loves us all the same. Nothing we do could make Him love us more. It is we who fail to love Him.

Is He a respecter of WHERE one of His kids
is standing, or/and just how righteous are we?

Is is not about where we are, because of course Jesus came to earth. But even while on earth, He was perfect. The saints are made perfect in heaven. Yet even they are not as powerful as Jesus.

So really if all this is true, the real question is, does God allow them to see what we are doing?

Because I already know they are talking with Him rightnow. that is a given if they are in heaven.

But I think the only question that is blocking anyone is "do they have any access to us here on earth?"

if yes, then the question is solved!

 

[Rick Otto]

...except for Jesus being our advocate & intercessor already, along with His not instructing us to pray that way.

Howdy, CFlame. Signed up for seminary yet?

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=terryobrien80;Who is more righteous than people in heaven?

That would be Jesus & His Father.

Not me.

You've made that abundantly clear, bro.

 

[CatholicFlame]

Hey Rick, well I am still trying to work out my vocation with fear and trmebling.

...except for Jesus being our advocate & intercessor already, along with His not instructing us to pray that way.

How do you see praying to saints to help us and Jesus being our advocate already being in conflict?

 

[Rick Otto]

It's like asking the horse to convince the cowboy riding him, that he should take the long way.

 

[CatholicFlame]

I am not sure what you mean Rick.

Can you explain?

 

[Catholic Christian]

...How do you see praying to saints to help us and Jesus being our advocate already being in conflict?

It is not. You are correct. the intercession of fellow Christians in heaven clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in 1 Timothy 2:1-4, Paul says that Christians should interceed: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Clearly, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something "good and pleasing to God"

Biblical references:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Praying_to_the_Saints.asp

 

[Catholic Christian]

It's like asking the horse to convince the cowboy riding him, that he should take the long way.

Only if the horse is Mr Ed.

 

[Rick Otto]

save your breath, in other words, bro.
If your prayer is righteous, it won't be any more righteous from the lips of Mary, or even Gabriel.
Jesus isn't going to reward you with something He already doesn't want for you, just because anybody else asks Him to give it to you.
In fact, it would test His patience to think He could be a respector of persons that way.

 

[CatholicFlame]

Thank you CC. I can see how this is clearly understood when we say that people on earth can intercede for us. And I am sure that most everyone here agrees.

Let me see what Rick thinks about this.

 

[CatholicFlame]

Rick I am confused by what you are saying.

What was your answer about my first question ??

thanks!

 

[Rick Otto]

It is not. You are correct. the intercession of fellow Christians in heaven clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in 1 Timothy 2:1-4, Paul says that Christians should interceed: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Clearly, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something "good and pleasing to God"

Biblical references:

LOL,... the reason that has nothing to do with asking the saints in heaven to pray for you is because it is instructing you to pray, but not to the saints in heaven.
So while this statement is in fact true:
"Clearly, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something "good and pleasing to God"
...it has nothing to do with praying to saints in heaven to pray for you.

 

[Rick Otto]

Rick I am confused by what you are saying.

What was your answer about my first question ??

thanks!

Repeat it for me so I don't have to guess which one you mean by "first", please.
Thanks

 

[CatholicFlame]

what is the difference between asking a saint in heaven to pray for you than asking someone on earth to pray for you?

they both need Jesus to be able to do anything.

 

[Rick Otto]

Rick I am confused by what you are saying.

What was your answer about my first question ??

thanks!
(.................................Otto sez, 'Repeat yer 1st query, porfavor'....................................................)
what is the difference between asking a saint in heaven to pray for you than asking someone on earth to pray for you?

they both need Jesus to be able to do anything.

This is the first time you have asked that question in this thread today, as I can see by looking at your posts, so I'm wondering if you're trying to "pull a fast one", or if & how you could be so confused as to think you've already asked me that.
I don't want to waste any more effort on dishonesty, or if that isn't the case, and I'm believing it isn't, I don't want to waste any time on confusion, so maybe you can help me clear it up before we proceed, bro?
Sorry if that seems too inconvenient.