The Sabbath: Universal law or Mosaic shadow?

[Akita Suggagaki]

Hebrews 8:6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

 

[BobRyan]

Hebrews 8:6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

As Gal 3 points out - the first covenant has the terms: "obey and live". We see it in Genesis 2 and we see it "at the nation level -- not the individual level - in Ex 19 and 20.

By contrast the New Covenant is the one Gospel Gal 1:6-9, "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8 and given to Adam in Gen 3. It is superior in that it provides salvation for the lost - but the Gen 2 condition did not.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

As Gal 3 points out - the first covenant has the terms: "obey and live". We see it in Genesis 2 and we see it "at the nation level -- not the individual level - in Ex 19 and 20.

By contrast the New Covenant is the one Gospel Gal 1:6-9, "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8 and given to Adam in Gen 3. It is superior in that it provides salvation for the lost - but the Gen 2 condition did not.

reread that chapter 3 from Galatians

7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

All with faith are metaphorically "children of Abraham. But certainly not bound by "works of the law". What would be the point of freeing gentiles from circumcision, the initiation to the law, if they were going to be required to keep other commandments articulated in the law such as the weekly ceremony of Sabbath?

Obviously that does not man gentile Christians are free to murder they have instruction and guidance to not do such things out of love, not because of Torah and its capstone, the 10 Commandments.

And, of course, there is nothing wrong with a gentile keeping Sabbath as long as it is not kept as a work of the law, but rather as a personal act of piety.

Eve though Galatians 5
4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Again from Galatians 3
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

 

[HIM]

reread that chapter 3 from Galatians

7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

All with faith are metaphorically "children of Abraham. But certainly not bound by "works of the law". What would be the point of freeing gentiles from circumcision, the initiation to the law, if they were going to be required to keep other commandments articulated in the law such as the weekly ceremony of Sabbath?

Obviously that does not man gentile Christians are free to murder hey have instruction and guidance to not do such things out of love, not because of Torah and its capstone, the 10 Commandments.

And, of course, there is nothing wrong with a gentile keeping Sabbath as long as it is not kept as a work of the law, but rather as a personal act of piety.

Eve though Galatians 5
4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Again from Galatians 3
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

A Christian can’t help but keep the Sabbath. For we are dead nevertheless we live. Yet not us but Christ Jesus lives in us. And the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith OF the Son of God who gave himself for us. For we whom have been baptized into Christ a Jesus have put on Christ Jesus. We are all one in Christ.
Did Christ keep the Sabbath?

 

[BobRyan]

reread that chapter 3 from Galatians

Already done here -- on this thread
Galatians 3 - shows New Covenant Gospel is before Sinai

7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

That is the "obey and live" element of the covenant made with Adam in Gen 2 and under which all mankind is lost - to this very day as we see in Rom 3:19-21 and in the link above.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Did Christ keep the Sabbath?

Jesus was a Jew. He kept it during his life on earth. Most of us are not Jews.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I don't see how Romans helps your point. Rather it undermines it.

19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—

It since it tells us no one will be justified by works and righteousness has been manifested apart from the law.

 

[HIM]

Jesus was a Jew. He kept it during his life on earth. Most of us are not Jews.

Galatians, neither Jew or gentile

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

What would be the point of freeing gentiles from circumcision, the initiation to the law, if they were going to be required to keep other commandments articulated in the law such as the weekly ceremony of Sabbath?

I'd like to see an answer. Thanks

 

[BobRyan]

Did Christ keep the Sabbath?

yes

John 8:46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me?

 

[BobRyan]

What would be the point of freeing gentiles from circumcision, the initiation to the law, if they were going to be required to keep other commandments articulated in the law such as the weekly ceremony of Sabbath?

I'd like to see an answer. Thanks

No scripture calls the 7th day Sabbath a ceremony - as it calls for rest - not ceremony.

"what matters is keeping the commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 - includes all ten

Eph 6:2 the TEN are that unit of Law where "'honor your father and mother' is the first commandment with a promise"

Is 56:6-8 - Seventh day - Sabbath keeping specifically for gentiles.
Is 66:23 - Sabbath keeping for all mankind for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.

Heb 4:9 " Consequently, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God."

 

[BobRyan]

I don't see how Romans helps your point. Rather it undermines it.

Rom 3:19-21 says all mankind is under the law - and through that law comes a knowledge of sin.

19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—

The Law continues to condemn all the unsaved world and continues to define what sin is (instead of being abolished).

Only the gospel frees mankind from the condemnation of the Law but does not free the saints to start "taking God's name in vain".

no one will be justified by works of the law - salvation comes through Christ. But that New Covenant Gospel writes the LAW of God on the heart instead of deleting the Law of God - and Romans 6 shows Paul spending an entire chapter on the subject of not sinning.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

No scripture calls the 7th day Sabbath a ceremony - as it calls for rest - not ceremony.

"what matters is keeping the commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 - includes all ten

Circumcision is also a commandment. You have not answered my question.

Isaiah 56
6 And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord
to minister to him,
to love the name of the Lord,
and to be his servants,
all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it
and who hold fast to my covenant—
7 these I will bring to my holy mountain
and give them joy in my house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and sacrifices
will be accepted on my altar;
for my house will be called
a house of prayer for all nations.”

This is in OT context of OT covenant. Are you burning offerings?
Do you go to the holy mountain? The house of prayer?

Leviticus 24:5-8
5 “Take the finest flour and bake twelve loaves of bread, using two-tenths of an ephah for each loaf. 6 Arrange them in two stacks, six in each stack, on the table of pure gold before the Lord. 7 By each stack put some pure incense as a memorial portion to represent the bread and to be a food offering presented to the Lord. 8 This bread is to be set out before the Lord regularly, Sabbath after Sabbath, on behalf of the Israelites, as a lasting covenant.

Are you also making bread and using incense with it?

 

[Leaf473]

No scripture calls the 7th day Sabbath a ceremony - as it calls for rest - not ceremony.

"what matters is keeping the commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 - includes all ten

Eph 6:2 the TEN are that unit of Law where "'honor your father and mother' is the first commandment with a promise"

Is 56:6-8 - Seventh day - Sabbath keeping specifically for gentiles.
Is 66:23 - Sabbath keeping for all mankind for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.

Heb 4:9 " Consequently, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God."

Do the scriptures refer to any law as ceremonial?

I did some word searches and didn't come up with any results. What translation are you using?

 

[BobRyan]

Do the scriptures refer to any law as ceremonial?

I don't think so - but having a specific liturgy is a minimum to be called ceremonial.

 

[BobRyan]

Circumcision is also a commandment.

True but it was never given as a commandment to gentiles - and in Acts 15:1-2 it was specifically refuted for gentiles as a means or barrier to - salvation.

the point remains.

You have not answered my question.

Isaiah 56
6 And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord
to minister to him,
to love the name of the Lord,
and to be his servants,
all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it
and who hold fast to my covenant—
7 these I will bring to my holy mountain
and give them joy in my house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and sacrifices
will be accepted on my altar;
for my house will be called
a house of prayer for all nations.”

not a question.

This is in OT context of OT covenant.

not in the NT use of that term as we find it in most cases.
New Covenant in Old Testament - Jer 31:31-34.

Are you burning offerings?

Heb 10:4-11 says animal sacrifices end at the cross - but does not say
"do not take God's name in vain -- is a command that ends at the cross"
-- and does not say "God's commandments ended at the cross"
-- and does not say "the Sabbath commandment ended at the cross".

Rather we see that "The TEN" - having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 -- remain.

And so the point remains.

Ex 20:11 points to the Sabbath in Gen 2:1-3
Mark 2:27 points to the Sabbath in Gen 2:1-3

Adam and Eve did not have burnt offerings in Gen 2 ...

Is 66:23 says that for all eternity after the cross in the new earth - all mankind will come before God from Sabbath to Sabbath.

The point remains.

 

[BobRyan]

I don't see how Romans helps your point. Rather it undermines it.

19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—

It since it tells us no one will be justified by works and righteousness has been manifested apart from the law.

It shows that all mankind is still condemned by the same commandments of God mentioned in Rom 7 and Rom 13 which Eph 6:2 says includes the TEN having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise'

The point remains.

 

[BobRyan]

Hebrews 8:6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

No doubt the Jer 31:31-34 New Covenant (gospel covenant) is better than the "obey and live" old covenant of Gen 2 given to Adam.

 

[BobRyan]

reread that chapter 3 from Galatians

7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

All with faith are metaphorically "children of Abraham. But certainly not bound by "works of the law".

And yet "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4...
and in that context "these things I write that you SIN NOT" 1 John 2:1
such that "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus " Rev 14:12
because "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19.
Where those commandments include the TEN having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

Therefore it is still a 'sin' even in the NT to take God's name in vain... even for Christians.

What would be the point of freeing gentiles from circumcision, the initiation to the law, if they were going to be required to keep other commandments

You are shooting your own argument in the foot at that point.

 

[BobRyan]

Obviously that does not man gentile Christians are free to murder they have instruction and guidance to not do such things out of love, .

In Matt 22 - before the cross - under the OT system - Jesus said "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:4 and "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 was the solid foundation of "all scripture" - "all the Law AND the prophets".

He did not say that those two Mosaic commands "delete all scripture" or "delete all the Law and the prophets".

No wonder Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate affirm ALL TEN as being included in the moral law of God applicable to all mankind even in the NT.