The Sabbath of the TEN Commandments - for all mankind (V2)

[D.A. Wright]

Christ seemed to be of a mind that His brand of "Sabbath-breaking" was, in fact, lawful.

He entered again into a synagogue; and a man was there whose hand was withered. They were watching Him to see if He would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse Him. He said to the man with the withered hand, “Get up and come forward!” And He said to them, “Is it lawful to do good or to do harm on the Sabbath, to save a life or to kill?” But they kept silent. After looking around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart, He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched it out, and his hand was restored. The Pharisees went out and immediately began conspiring with the Herodians against Him, as to how they might destroy Him.

Notice, the hardness of the Pharisaical hearts, which angered Christ, blinded them to the lesson on the proper keeping (not breaking, but "lawful") of the Sabbath commandment, also causing them to conspire to kill Him. This history will be repeated and is, even now, being cultivated. Liberal and conservative Christians alike will join hands in persecuting God's commandment-keeping people, even the weak (so-called "hypocritical") ones who don't seem to be keeping them so well. The original word for "keeping" can also be translated as "guarding," by the way.

So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard (sha.mar—H8104) the way to the tree of life.
(Genesis 3:24)

Then the LORD said to Moses, "How long do you refuse to keep (sha.mar—H8104) My commandments and My instructions?
(Exodus 16:28)

 

[DamianWarS]

The original word for "keeping" can also be translated as "guarding," by the way.

So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard (sha.mar—H8104) the way to the tree of life.
(Genesis 3:24)

Then the LORD said to Moses, "How long do you refuse to keep (sha.mar—H8104) My commandments and My instructions?
(Exodus 16:28)

not sure your point, but the 4th commandment doesn't use this word.

 

[D.A. Wright]

not sure your point, but the 4th commandment doesn't use this word.

Yeah, I fully expected that someone would notice that. Looks like we've got ourselves a loophole

not sure your point, but the 4th commandment doesn't use this word.

Not sure your point, but neither do any of the other nine, except in reference to all ten of them.

 

[DamianWarS]

Yeah, I fully expected that someone would notice that. Looks like we've got ourselves a loophole

then you're post lacks transparency and feels deceptive because you knew of this but didn't want to address it unless forced.

Not sure your point, but neither do any of the other nine, except in reference to all ten of them.

your point is still not clear and like @BobRyan you ignore the problem presented in the sabbath law, that it must be repeated and the letter of the law can never satisfy the demand of the law. @BobRyan in the end just copied and pasted his old posts over and over and never really engaged. Saying "Satisfy, Schmatisfy" is very much in the same spirit. Why ignore this or pretend it's not there?

Let's say the 4th commandment does use this word or let's use your umbrella verse to cover them all. How does this make it more stressed over the existing language? if we are to look at the 4th as ultimately pointing to the rest of God which we can only have access to through Christ then the value of keeping the law pivots to Christ so whatever language is used is then reconciled to Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
Ex 20
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Deuteronomy 5:15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Which reason for the Sabbath is correct?

1. We all know atheists who will say that some part of the Bible contradicts the other - while Christians often argue that both texts are correct. Interesting that all of us are aware of that fact.
2. Deut 5 comes 40 years after Exodus 20 and no 'new stone is chiseled' in Deut 5 .. as we all know.
3. Duet 5 mentions what WAS chiseled on stone and says that those words are still valid...

Duet 5
2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb.

4 The Lord spoke to you face to face at the mountain from the midst of the fire, 5 while I was standing between the Lord and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the Lord; for you were afraid because of the fire and did not go up the mountain. He said,

22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me

32 So you shall observe to do just as the Lord your God has commanded you; you shall not turn aside to the right or to the left. 33 You shall walk in all the way which the Lord your God has commanded you,


So "given the content" of Deut 5 - it is odd that someone is now arguing for tossing out Ex 20 in favor of Deut 5 - as if Moses was even arguing for such a thing in Deut 5.

 

[BobRyan]

your point is still not clear and like @BobRyan you ignore the problem presented in the sabbath law,

I do not claim there is a problem there - you do .. I show that Paul points out it is only a problem for the lost in Rom 8:4-11 when it comes to complaints about some group not able to submit to the law of God.

Are you wanting that point - brought up "again"??

 

[BobRyan]

Ex 20:7 "do not take God's name in vain"

none of the law was enjoined upon man to fully satisfy, we only keep it but we can't satisfy it's demand .

No doubt the lost cannot perfectly keep the Law of God - Rom 8:4-11 ... does it help to keep going back to that point that I have made repeatedly and that you seem to want to bring up again??

The actual topic of this thread is in regard to the fact that commands like "Do not take God's name in vain" -- i.e. the Ten .. are applicable to all mankind and as part of the moral law of God -- define what sin is.

 

[DamianWarS]

I do not claim there is a problem there - you do .. I show that Paul points out it is only a problem for the lost in Rom 8:4-11 when it comes to complaints about some group not able to submit to the law of God.

Are you wanting that point - brought up "again"??

the problem is baked in by design from the need to repeat the Sabbath over and over without it ever being satisfied. ignoring it doesn't take it away.

 

[BobRyan]

your point is still not clear and like @BobRyan you ignore the problem presented in the sabbath law,

I do not claim there is a problem there - you do .. I show that Paul points out it is only a problem for the lost in Rom 8:4-11 when it comes to complaints about some group not able to submit to the law of God.

Are you wanting that point - brought up "again"??

the problem is baked in by design

Indeed "do not take God's name in vain" not possible for the lost to do fully as Romans 8:4-11 points out only the saved have the indwelling Holy Spirit so as to walk in obedience rather than rebellion.

from the need to repeat the Sabbath over and over without it ever being satisfied.

No such scripture.. but interesting creative writing all the same.

Turns out. your supposed to "not take God's name in vain" day after day after day.. not just "one day"... has nothing to do with "not satisfied".

obviously.

 

[fwGod]

The keeping of the commandments is not a sabbath rest. Such a concept is bringing back the bondage and futility of trying to please God through works of the law.

I read the epistles of the apostle Paul that abolishes such and favors the grace of God which is the true rest.

 

[D.A. Wright]

then you're post lacks transparency and feels deceptive because you knew of this but didn't want to address it unless forced.

Way to spin the loophole thing. Loopholes are for folks who are seeking to transgress.

Transparency, is it? The word "keep" (sha.mar--H8104) is coupled with the word "commandment" (mits.vah--H4687) constantly in the Old Testament, and quite often with the word "Sabbath," and even within the second commandment itself, referring to the entire ten. Why does the fourth commandment need to use a specific word at all? Unless we're looking to find a loophole, of course. Why rest? Why obey? 'Because God said so' seems like reason enough to me. Yes, quite reasonable. For furthering this belief, I am accused of deceit and trickery. By the way, you find Christ using this same form of discourse when dealing with the established religionists of His day. They were generally shrewd enough not to expose themselves verbally.

You are, of course, at liberty to "feel" deceived all you want, but I wouldn't bother to look any further than the mirror for the perpetrator.

Christ never depicted Himself as being a replacement for the Sabbath. He said the Sabbath was made for man, with whom He cast His own very lot. He said that he would give the weary rest, and not that He would replace that rest.

I don't know what you mean by "umbrella verse" in this case, and I can assure you that no such thing exists, anyway (although I can think of at least one person who seems to think the entire Bible can be jettisoned in favor of 2 Corinthians 3:7-8), but the reason I keep the Sabbath (even in my own pitiful, human way, sometimes) and the rest of the commandments is that someone was kind enough to point out to me that there is no annulment of them prescribed in Scripture. I fully understand the "dead letter" hypothesis (a term which isn't even used anymore, given the heresy has become widely-embraced orthodoxy) and I reject it outright. Writers of the Great Awakening new nothing of antinomianism, and would have laughed it to scorn. For those who feel that the 20th century has actually brought about enlightenment on the isuues of law vs. grace, I tremble for their souls.

If the Great Apostle felt comfortable saying that "the commandment is holy and just and good," which is about as simple a statement as a person could make, I won't be found trying to twist his other, more ambiguous statements to contradict himself. Sorry. That's just how my (undeserved but) regenerate heart rolls nowadays.

 

[D.A. Wright]

the problem is baked in by design from the need to repeat the Sabbath over and over without it ever being satisfied.

Is this a rib? Am I being punk'd?

 

[BobRyan]

"Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7

The keeping of the commandments is not a sabbath rest. Such a concept is bringing back the bondage

But that is not scripture so while you are free to have your own POV on any topic you like - in the Bible we have this.

In the New Earth for all eternity after the cross "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" Ex 20:8

"Honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 in the still-valid TEN comm.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

I read the epistles of the apostle Paul that abolishes such and favors the grace of God which is the true rest.

"Do we then abolish the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

 

[BobRyan]

Christ never depicted Himself as being a replacement for the Sabbath. He said the Sabbath was made for man, with whom He cast His own very lot. He said that he would give the weary rest, and not that He would replace that rest.

Good point -- God GAVE us the Sabbath but He IS not the Sabbath. Just like God MADE creation for mankind but God IS not creation.

 

[DamianWarS]

No such scripture.. but interesting creative writing all the same.

Turns out. your supposed to "not take God's name in vain" day after day after day.. not just "one day"... has nothing to do with "not satisfied".

there are moral commands like don't steal or murder. these are continually observed because there is no switch for morality. but the sabbath has one day where work is wrong and rest is good and the other days where it's flipped and work is right and rest is frowned upon. These are not moral actions that are being addressed as rest/work are not inherently right/wrong so the value here is far deeper than it's surface counterparts.

6 days I dedicate to work and 1 day I dedicate to rest. there comes a point however where I can no longer work and the work is over but the sabbath doesn't end and still the 7th day I must obverse it... and the 7th day again and again until I die.

this is the problem. the law of the sabbath doesn't end and it just goes on and on and on forever and this the unquenchable demand it has and this demand mirrors the demand of the sacrificial law and its need for blood undeniably fulfilled by Christ, where the old system was never enough. Heb 8 tells us that the old covenant was flawed, now what is the covenant? A covenant is nothing without law and a lawless covenant is not a covenant at all and laws without a covenant is tyranny. So you cannot separate the covenant and the law and when one is said to have a problem the other has the same problem. we see echoed patterns of the same in the spiritual, when the old dies there is a resurrection into new life in Jesus and this is the new covenant, the old resurrecting into new life.

 

[DamianWarS]

Christ never depicted Himself as being a replacement for the Sabbath. He said the Sabbath was made for man, with whom He cast His own very lot. He said that he would give the weary rest, and not that He would replace that rest.

spoiler alert: Christ is God. the Sabbath is far greater than a day it is divine rest. it's not difficult math. Jesus says come to me and I will give you rest because he has the authority and credentials to give true rest, the same rest that was ordained at creation (because he was there), the same rest the 4th commandment points to (he was there too). He doesn't replace the rest, he always gave it and it was always his to give.

 

[fwGod]

But that is not scripture

To say that it is not scripture is to bring to mind that you haven't read the epistles of Paul on the matter of the law versus grace. Nor that you do not take into account what Jesus said "Come to me you who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and you will have rest for your soul for my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

The pharisees had put even harder, stricter requirements on the people than that of the old testament commandments. The commandments, stated the authors of the epistles.. to be more than they (anyone) could bear.

so while you are free to have your own POV on any topic you like - in the Bible we have this.

In the New Earth for all eternity after the cross "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

The keeping of the sabbath in the new earth timeframe is going to be for the Jews who were converted at the Second Coming of Jesus.

They have known the heavy burdensome law keeping before their conversion. So when Jesus comes the Second time, they will experience what they rejected .. of Jesus in His first coming. They will come to Him and receive rest. They will take His yoke upon them which is easy and light.

"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" Ex 20:8

"Honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 in the still-valid TEN comm.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

The law of Moses was not just the ten commandments. It included all 613 commandments. They were difficult to keep for someone who is not saved. Even in keeping them, they did not do so in faith or by grace. The apostle Paul explained this.

He said in Ti.2:11-14 that "the grace of God teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope-the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good."

With grace doing that.. the old laws are no longer our tutor.

"this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

The apostle John wrote in 1 John 5:2-3 that God's commandments are not burdensome.
However, John was referring to John 4:23 "This is His commandment: that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us."

"A new commandment I give to you, to love one another just as I have loved you."

"Do we then abolish the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

The law is upheld in order to show that Jesus fulfilled them (Mat.5:17). Which again shows that we do not through our own works, have to do them. But our actions are of grace at work in us.

God did not intend for us to keep His commandments by our own works and effort of our flesh.

In Rom.13 it says, "he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled all the law." Then is listed the ten commandments. Which are to be summed up in the scripture "love your neighbor as yourself." and "love does no wrong to one's neighbor, love therefore is the fulfillment of the law."

We must allow Jesus who in His love for us while we were sinners... fulfilled all the law for us.. and allow God to energize and create in us the power and desire to will and to work of His good pleasure.

We can't do it ourselves alone to win brownie points with God. For Jesus said "the flesh profits nothing."

 

[JackRT]

1. We all know atheists who will say that some part of the Bible contradicts the other - while Christians often argue that both texts are correct. Interesting that all of us are aware of that fact.
2. Deut 5 comes 40 years after Exodus 20 and no 'new stone is chiseled' in Deut 5 .. as we all know.

There are contradictions found in the three versions of the Ten Commandments contained in the Bible (Exodus 34:1-28, Exodus 20:1-17, Deuteronomy 5:1-21). How can all three versions be true if they are not the same? Exodus 34, the oldest version at about 950 BC, is from the pen of the “J” or Jahwist writer and is not one of which many have ever heard. The final commandment in this earliest version reads “You shall not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.” Why, we are led to wonder, was this original set of Ten Commandments rejected or replaced? The second version Exodus 20, from about 850 BC, was from the pen of the “E” or Elohist writer, but was greatly expanded about 560 BC by a group of people called the “P” or priestly writers. Did these writers, who added so much to the entire body of the Jewish Scriptures, do so because they judged the original version to be so woefully inadequate that it required major additions and editing? Does one alter or tamper with what one believes to be “The Word of God?” The third version, Deuteronomy 5 in about 625 BC, was from the pen of the “D” or Deuteronomic writers composed somewhere between the original writing of Exodus 20 and the expansion done on that same text some 400 or so years later. For example, the version in Deuteronomy did not offer as the reason the Sabbath must be observed the fact that God rested on the Sabbath, for the version of that seven day creation story had not yet been written. So this author states that the Sabbath is to be observed because the people of Israel must remember that they were once slaves in Egypt and even slaves must have a day of rest. Which of these versions of the Ten Commandments, we might ask, can qualify as “The Word of God?”

 

[Bob S]

None of you Sabbath salespeople ever mention that Israel was God's children. You never mention that all the remainder of God's family were never asked to observe a day. Only Israel was told to rest on a certain day. Jesus never asked anyone to observe a special day. He even told the man he healed to pick up his bed and walk all on the Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

None of you Sabbath salespeople ever mention that Israel was God's children. You never mention that all the remainder of God's family were never asked to observe a day.

Because we don't like "making stuff up".. apparently.

Is 56:6-8 gentiles specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping in the OT.
Is 66:23 ALL MANKIND specifically singled out for Sabbath keeping for all eternity AFTER the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

No wonder all those Sunday keeping groups admit that all TEN of the Ten commandments are in the moral law of God and apply to all mankind.

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

And of course 7th day groups

Seventh-day Baptists
Seventh-day Adventists
(and 100's of others)