The Sabbath of the TEN Commandments - for all mankind (V2)

[D.A. Wright]

Except you are going about it the wrong way. Walk in the Spirit and you will be living way above what the Law requires.

Now I'm going about it the wrong way and failing to walk in the Spirit. You know me so well, somehow.

There is no way to live above what the Law requires.

Love God supremely and your neighbor as though he was your own body.

How does one live way above that standard?

 

[D.A. Wright]

If I live to be 1000 before Jesus comes (God forbid) I'll never understand how the command to rest (the only that really evokes objection) is seen by so many as a pursuit of salvation by works.

 

[JackRT]

Ex 20
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Deuteronomy 5:15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Which reason for the Sabbath is correct?

 

[Aussie Pete]

What convinced me to rethink how I had previously viewed the Scriptures was realizing how people are basically lawless and rebellious inside and I had to face that fact about myself. In looking at the Scriptural commentary, I saw that God is loving and just and put His laws into place so that we would know what righteousness looked like, since He called us to be like He is, and He is righteous. Quite honestly, we couldn't figure it out on our own. We needed His mind and He provided His words (commandments, statutes, judgements, law, testimonies - however you find it explained as you work your way through the written Word), then to make it perfectly clear, He gave us His Word made flesh who challenged the complications of the Jewish system that had developed over the years of people extorting the power of having authority without having the character of God. The indictments Jesus makes against the authorities who misused, misinterpreted, and tied up the people are spot on and well earned. But with the Bible in hand, each of us has the resources to find out what it was that God was intending. So when I looked, I realized that the contrast is between God's way (the unquestionably right way as God sees it) and the world's way (which included the gentile/pagan ways and the distorted Jewish ways). In the old testament, the people were encouraged to walk in the way of JWHW and not in the ways of the nations with their other deities. Later the warnings were to avoid the corruptions of their religious system and come back to the instructions that JWHW had given. Jesus fleshed this out. The disciples/apostles and Paul continued that comparison.

In light of that, I see the verses in Galatians and in Colossians to be Paul reminding them that other philosophies are vain, regardless of how the people around judge you - the laws as God gave them are the only safe place for instruction on how to live a righteous life. That we all missed the mark, and some of us to awful degrees missed the mark, is evident, and Jesus is that final once for all sacrifice, doing in reality what the former sacrificial system illustrated. We are SAVED by the precious death and resurrection of our Savior/Messiah. We never could be saved through trying to observe the laws, but that didn't set aside the validity of the laws God gave. He didn't waste His time telling us how to live. As a good parent, He taught His own, and as we parents can understand, the children miss the mark at times, and those consequences teach us that staying close to living as God said is the better idea.

So whether it's murder, adultery, disrespect, Sabbath keeping, of deciding what's most important in my life (what will I worship, what will I trade), or what ever the topic is, the words in Scripture that we have from God to show us how to make life work are there and they do exactly that - give us wisdom to make the right choice. It's always up to us to choose, but all that we need for life and godliness are given to us in our knowledge of Him. Jesus and JWHW spoke the same words. Jesus said, I and my Father are one. And the Holy Spirit will remind us of those sensible words - not other words.

I came to realize that I've shot myself in the foot by trying to divide out the covenants, so I quit looking at it that way. God cut many deals with His people, but He Himself doesn't change. If we want to know Him and pursue Him, we need to look beyond any "contractual checklists" that we put up between the old testament and the new, because those can cause us to stumble. Rather, look at what Jesus said - this is the new deal through my blood - now you have access and a bold entrance to find mercy in a time of need. It never was something we could earn, but if we want to choose the choices that God recommends, we will find those examples in the words (laws, testimonies, statutes, judgements) of God that bring a light to our paths and obey Him with appropriate reverence and that fear that is the beginning of wisdom.

Yes, but how do you obey what you believe God requires of you? Commandments are just that. They are not recommendations. God is not a heavenly version of an agony aunt. The Law demonstrates that are unable to keep it. The Sermon on the Mount is a commentary on the Law. The Law says do not murder. Lord Jesus said that hating someone is murder. Who has never hated? If we break the Law in one aspect, we are guilty of them all.
If you are trying to live by following commandments, you will fail. And fail. And fail. Only Person has fulfilled the Law completely. It is not you and it is not me. Lord Jesus lives in us, if indeed we are born again. When we walk in the Spirit, we will fulfil all of God's righteous demands on us. Life becomes so much easier and we can avoid a great many pitfalls. When I was first saved I was offered a sponsorship to become a Freemason. It is the ticket to success, at least in Australia. Now I realise it was like Satan's temptation of Jesus. I knew nothing at the time. I just had a "knowing" in my spirit (not that I knew that I had a spirit) that told me not to accept the offer. You won't find a prohibition against Freemasonry even in the Amplified Bible. Live by the Spirit. Learn to walk in obedience to conscience and intuition. Yes, we need to know the Book of the Lord. I teach the Bible. It's even more important to know the Lord of the Book.

 

[Greengardener]

Deuteronomy 5:15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Which reason for the Sabbath is correct?

In my mind, both of them are correct reasons for the Sabbath. Would that present any problems?

 

[Aussie Pete]

If I live to be 1000 before Jesus comes (God forbid) I'll never understand how the command to rest (the only that really evokes objection) is seen by so many as a pursuit of salvation by works.

Colossians 3:15. Galatians 3. 1 Timothy 1:8. Galatians 5:4. You do not understand because spiritual things can only be understood spiritually. SDA theology does not even recognise that man is fundamentally a spirit, who has a soul and inhabits a body. So I do not expect you to understand the objections you are finding.

 

[Greengardener]

Yes, but how do you obey what you believe God requires of you? Commandments are just that. They are not recommendations. God is not a heavenly version of an agony aunt. The Law demonstrates that are unable to keep it. The Sermon on the Mount is a commentary on the Law. The Law says do not murder. Lord Jesus said that hating someone is murder. Who has never hated? If we break the Law in one aspect, we are guilty of them all.
If you are trying to live by following commandments, you will fail. And fail. And fail. Only Person has fulfilled the Law completely. It is not you and it is not me. Lord Jesus lives in us, if indeed we are born again. When we walk in the Spirit, we will fulfil all of God's righteous demands on us. Life becomes so much easier and we can avoid a great many pitfalls. When I was first saved I was offered a sponsorship to become a Freemason. It is the ticket to success, at least in Australia. Now I realise it was like Satan's temptation of Jesus. I knew nothing at the time. I just had a "knowing" in my spirit (not that I knew that I had a spirit) that told me not to accept the offer. You won't find a prohibition against Freemasonry even in the Amplified Bible. Live by the Spirit. Learn to walk in obedience to conscience and intuition. Yes, we need to know the Book of the Lord. I teach the Bible. It's even more important to know the Lord of the Book.

You raise good questions, Pete, and most conversations seem to divide into these same trails of thinking. Try this explanation to see that you and I are not actually worlds apart. You will have to see this in concepts rather than in concrete actions, though. To begin with, no book of law is big enough to list all the sins man can imagine and do, so look beyond the checklist, even as Jesus taught us. I hope to show you that the Holy Spirit working in our lives teaches us the same concepts that God gave us in His words.

Example 1: The same "knowing" that you had in your spirit is found in a concept that you can locate in Proverbs, Psalms, or one of the stories of either old or new testament, and maybe in this situation it's the story about Jesus being tempted by Satan by what might have looked like gain but would have been a trap. That wisdom was captured into words that God gave us to be a light to our path, and that's the reason we are to read His words. (Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman fully instructed in righteousness who can avoid shame.) In this situation you experienced (and I have similar stories) you were prompted by God's Holy Spirit even before you knew the words were there, but God's Holy Spirit knew they were there. The point is that the two agree - God's Spirit agrees with God's words.

Example 2: From your example, if I struggle with hating my brother, what do I do with that iniquity? I repent and turn to God away from that sin, I realize it was laid on Jesus, and I choose whether I'm going to continue to walk away from this wonderful Savior or whether I will reckon myself to be dead to that sin. There is no saving myself by obedience, but that doesn't eliminate my obligation to respect JHWH and obey Him. I can boldly come to God by the blood of Jesus and ask for the help I need. And it would be by the prompting of the Holy Spirit when I am slow to see my error, or in cases like yours with the Freemasons, in a situation where my brain didn't put together the precepts that could have made me wise to it in the beginning. Again, the two (God's Spirit and His words) agree. The end result would be the same. It's not at all a salvation by works. It's an obedience from love - the great love that the Father has bestowed on us that we should be called His children, conformed to the image of His obedient Son. And the more we study His words, the more we see His wisdom and walk in a clearer path.

In no way would I suggest that we can live above the law even at our best, because we simply miss the mark. But again, even in missing the mark in some aspects, Abraham believed God and showed that he believed by obeying what that God told him to do, and David was commended to be a man after God's heart not just because he accomplished acts of valor by believing God but also because even in all his sin, he repented and returned to God and never turned to another God.

There is no salvation in any other than Jesus. Jesus fleshed out what the Law was and He clearly said He didn't come to abolish the law. The concept of our choice in being obedient or being lawless still applies, and the standard that we see for human behavior is spelled out in the precepts we were given. If we look, it's there and there is no divide: God has wanted the same thing for mankind from creation. We aren't insulting God to pay attention to what He said, nor are we disregarding His amazing grace and favor shown to us in the sacrifice of His Son to try to avoid additional errors along our paths by being obedient, whether to the Holy Spirit or to the written words of God. We are especially blessed (and accountable) to have access to both His Spirit in us and His words in our hands and they are not contradictory.

I hope this is helpful as a reply to your reply. I appreciate you, Friend.

 

[Aussie Pete]

You raise good questions, Pete, and most conversations seem to divide into these same trails of thinking. Try this explanation to see that you and I are not actually worlds apart. You will have to see this in concepts rather than in concrete actions, though. To begin with, no book of law is big enough to list all the sins man can imagine and do, so look beyond the checklist, even as Jesus taught us. I hope to show you that the Holy Spirit working in our lives teaches us the same concepts that God gave us in His words.

Example 1: The same "knowing" that you had in your spirit is found in a concept that you can locate in Proverbs, Psalms, or one of the stories of either old or new testament, and maybe in this situation it's the story about Jesus being tempted by Satan by what might have looked like gain but would have been a trap. That wisdom was captured into words that God gave us to be a light to our path, and that's the reason we are to read His words. (Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman fully instructed in righteousness who can avoid shame.) In this situation you experienced (and I have similar stories) you were prompted by God's Holy Spirit even before you knew the words were there, but God's Holy Spirit knew they were there. The point is that the two agree - God's Spirit agrees with God's words.

Example 2: From your example, if I struggle with hating my brother, what do I do with that iniquity? I repent and turn to God away from that sin, I realize it was laid on Jesus, and I choose whether I'm going to continue to walk away from this wonderful Savior or whether I will reckon myself to be dead to that sin. There is no saving myself by obedience, but that doesn't eliminate my obligation to respect JHWH and obey Him. I can boldly come to God by the blood of Jesus and ask for the help I need. And it would be by the prompting of the Holy Spirit when I am slow to see my error, or in cases like yours with the Freemasons, in a situation where my brain didn't put together the precepts that could have made me wise to it in the beginning. Again, the two (God's Spirit and His words) agree. The end result would be the same. It's not at all a salvation by works. It's an obedience from love - the great love that the Father has bestowed on us that we should be called His children, conformed to the image of His obedient Son. And the more we study His words, the more we see His wisdom and walk in a clearer path.

In no way would I suggest that we can live above the law even at our best, because we simply miss the mark. But again, even in missing the mark in some aspects, Abraham believed God and showed that he believed by obeying what that God told him to do, and David was commended to be a man after God's heart not just because he accomplished acts of valor by believing God but also because even in all his sin, he repented and returned to God and never turned to another God.

There is no salvation in any other than Jesus. Jesus fleshed out what the Law was and He clearly said He didn't come to abolish the law. The concept of our choice in being obedient or being lawless still applies, and the standard that we see for human behavior is spelled out in the precepts we were given. If we look, it's there and there is no divide: God has wanted the same thing for mankind from creation. We aren't insulting God to pay attention to what He said, nor are we disregarding His amazing grace and favor shown to us in the sacrifice of His Son to try to avoid additional errors along our paths by being obedient, whether to the Holy Spirit or to the written words of God. We are especially blessed (and accountable) to have access to both His Spirit in us and His words in our hands and they are not contradictory.

I hope this is helpful as a reply to your reply. I appreciate you, Friend.

Thank you for your comprehensive, thoughtful and generous response. You are right, we are not that far apart. I teach the Bible so I am aware of how much we need God's word. The "daily bread" in the Lord's prayer is His Word, not a cheese sandwich. Yet knowing what to do is not enough. We need the life of Christ in place of the life we received from Adam. If we will but live from His life, many of our problems will be overcome. Many Christians are greatly concerned with what they can and must do to please God. I am delighted to discover what God has already done for me in Christ. The rich young ruler asked Jesus, "What must I do?" Obeying the commandments was not enough. Lord Jesus told him to sell all he had. If the man had asked Jesus to save him, that would have elicited an entirely different response. And, like Zacchaeus, I would imagine that the rich man would have been inspired to give. Of course that is speculation.

 

[Greengardener]

Yes, we live by every word of God! I notice that even the young ruler used the checklist approach to righteousness and, as expected, didn't find it satisfactory.

What an offer Jesus gave that young ruler to leave it all behind and follow Him, and what love Jesus had for him. Would that we not neglect this awesome offer of relationship with Him regardless what it may appear to cost us! There is nothing to compare!

May we yield to the pruning of God and yield to the shaping of our Potter.
2 Peter Chapter 1.

 

[DamianWarS]

Pretty much every sermon I've ever heard in any denominational category has declared that we look to Christ because He did both. Your capacity for complex thought clearly dwarfs my own. In view of your hypothesis of live-human inability to keep the Sabbath, did Christ break the Sabbath because of his bio-chemical machinations or not? Or did He possess some mystical form of human nature that gave Him an advantage over us for the purpose of obedience? I really would like to know.

Human bio-mechanics does not break the letter of the Sabbath but it also doesn't satisfy the demand of the sabbath.

Keeping the sabbath according the letter is obtainable by man, if you're careful enough it's possible for someone to keep the sabbath their entire life, we even have an example of this in the NT with the diolog between Christ and the rich man. But keeping the sabbath in this way does not satisfy the demand of the Sabbath which means we never gain access to the rest of God by keeping the letter of the sabbath and this is the problem.

Similar to the sacrifice, the system of the sacrifice was kept through the repeated spilt blood of animals and this measure is obtainable by man. but the demand of the law is never met and there would continually need more sacrifices. We are not told about Christ offering sacrifices himself during his life but I think it would be fair to assume that he did as there were many types of sacrifices and they were a required part of normal life within Isreal. Had Jesus not participated in them, for example, a thanksgiving offering, he would be openly criticized. We know this system was flawed yet was Jesus in violation of the law because he participated in a flawed system? It's flawed in the sense that it's not worthy but it still proclaimed Christ's sacarfice.

This is the same with the Sabbath, the law points to a continual repetitive act to keep the letter of the law and Jesus would have fully kept the sabbath law but like the sacrificial system, it too was flawed because the adherence of a day was never able to satisfy the demand of the sabbath. The day of the sabbath points to Christ and although Christ observed the letter of the law this doesn't mean his participation was flawed or pointless. The point is that it points to himself, his ultimate sacrifice and rest in the grave then subsequent resurrection for all mankind so we do not have to keep the letter of the law in these ways since Christ satisfied the demand of it we may obtain the complete sabbath rest through him and him alone (not through our observance of a day) just like we may also receive new life through his resurrection (not our resurrection) and redemption through his sacrifice (not our sacrifice).

 

[D.A. Wright]

Which reason for the Sabbath is correct?

This one:

Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

 

[D.A. Wright]

You do not understand because spiritual things can only be understood spiritually. SDA theology does not even recognise that man is fundamentally a spirit, who has a soul and inhabits a body. So I do not expect you to understand the objections you are finding.

Nonsense du jour.

SDA theology does not even recognise that man is fundamentally a spirit, who has a soul and inhabits a body.

Correct, because I don't recognize false doctrine. I reject spiritualism. It is the counterfeit to spirtuality. God is a spirit, Angels are spirits (although they can assume or emulate human form), people are souls.
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
(Genesis 2:7)
From StepBible.com:
Vocab
נֶ֫פֶשׁ (ne.phesh) 'soul' (H5315)

Search for this word (~683 occurrences)
Meaning
1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
1a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
1b) living being
1c) living being (with life in the blood)
1d) the man himself, self, person or individual
1e) seat of the appetites
1f) seat of emotions and passions
1g) activity of mind
1g1) dubious
1h) activity of the will
1h1) dubious
1i) activity of the character
1i1) dubious
Related words

• Naphish (na.phish - נָפִישׁ)
• be refreshed (na.phash - נָפַשׁ)
• honey (no.phet - נֹ֫פֶת)
• Naphtuhites (naph.tu.chim - נַפְתֻּחִים)

When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing.
(Psalm 146:4)
Vocab
רוּחַ (ru.ach) 'spirit' (H7307)

Search for this word (~348 occurrences)
Meaning
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
1a) breath
1b) wind
1b1) of heaven
1b2) quarter (of wind), side
1b3) breath of air
1b4) air, gas
1b5) vain, empty thing
1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
1c2) courage
1c3) temper, anger
1c4) impatience, patience
1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
1c7) prophetic spirit
1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
1e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1e1) desire
1e2) sorrow, trouble
1f) spirit
1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts
1f2) rarely of the will
1f3) as seat especially of moral character
1g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1g1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
1g2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
1g3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
1g4) as endowing men with various gifts
1g5) as energy of life
1g6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory
1g7) never referred to as a depersonalised force
Related words

• to smell (ri.ach - רִיחַ)
• spirit (ru.ach - רוּחַ)
• aroma (re.ach - רֵיחַ)

Can't you guys do your own Bible study? There have never been more wonderful tools available (for free, even).

 

[D.A. Wright]

Human bio-mechanics does not break the letter of the Sabbath but it also doesn't satisfy the demand of the sabbath.

One who obverse the sabbath is as guilty as one who does not if he was breathing, since we all are breathing we are all guilty. The only way to fully satisfy it is by dying before the sabbath begins then resurrecting after the sabbath was over. Can you think of one that has done just that?

Satisfy, Schmatisfy. It has never been enjoined upon man, Jew or Gentile, to "fully satisfy" the Sabbath. Only to remember and keep it, as per chiseled in stone. Jesus kept His Fathers commandments. That is how He "fully satisfied" the Law. He then paid the awful penalty for those of us who begin sinning before we even know what sin is by being separated from His Father and His Spirit (My God (Father), my God (Spirit), why hast thou forsaken me?) as His limp body hung upon the tree on Golgotha (the hill of skulls, where the cross, sunken into the ground, indeed bruised satan's skull--Genesis 3:15). He rested in the grave through the Sabbath hours as a matter of course, because He is righteous, not as a special "full satisfaction" of the sabbath.
Tell me, how did He "fully satisfy" the other 9 commandments?

 

[D.A. Wright]

Colossians 3:15. Galatians 3. 1 Timothy 1:8. Galatians 5:4. You do not understand because spiritual things can only be understood spiritually. SDA theology does not even recognise that man is fundamentally a spirit, who has a soul and inhabits a body. So I do not expect you to understand the objections you are finding.

I just noticed that you quoted my post and didn't even bother to address it at all, except to deflect and claim that I am deficient in spirituality.

I recognize that spiritualistic things can only be understood spiritualistically. I'm not going there.

The question was:
Why is rest defined as work and why is there no objection to the other 9 commandments?

 

[Aussie Pete]

I just noticed that you quoted my post and didn't even bother to address it at all, except to deflect and claim that I am deficient in spirituality.

I recognize that spiritualistic things can only be understood spiritualistically. I'm not going there.

The question was:
Why is rest defined as work and why is there no objection to the other 9 commandments?

I think it's necessary to define rest and work. What do you say it is? Work to me, for example, teaching at the Bible School and the associated administration tasks. Rest is mowing the lawns and tending the garden. I have one day a week that I do nothing associated with my work. That is Monday, usually. It just works out that way. Now someone who mows lawns for a living would not consider my "rest" to be appropriate.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Nonsense du jour.

Correct, because I don't recognize false doctrine. I reject spiritualism. It is the counterfeit to spirtuality. God is a spirit, Angels are spirits (although they can assume or emulate human form), people are souls.
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
(Genesis 2:7)
From StepBible.com:
Vocab
נֶ֫פֶשׁ (ne.phesh) 'soul' (H5315)

Search for this word (~683 occurrences)
Meaning
1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
1a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
1b) living being
1c) living being (with life in the blood)
1d) the man himself, self, person or individual
1e) seat of the appetites
1f) seat of emotions and passions
1g) activity of mind
1g1) dubious
1h) activity of the will
1h1) dubious
1i) activity of the character
1i1) dubious
Related words

• Naphish (na.phish - נָפִישׁ)
• be refreshed (na.phash - נָפַשׁ)
• honey (no.phet - נֹ֫פֶת)
• Naphtuhites (naph.tu.chim - נַפְתֻּחִים)

When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing.
(Psalm 146:4)
Vocab
רוּחַ (ru.ach) 'spirit' (H7307)

Search for this word (~348 occurrences)
Meaning
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
1a) breath
1b) wind
1b1) of heaven
1b2) quarter (of wind), side
1b3) breath of air
1b4) air, gas
1b5) vain, empty thing
1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
1c2) courage
1c3) temper, anger
1c4) impatience, patience
1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
1c7) prophetic spirit
1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
1e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1e1) desire
1e2) sorrow, trouble
1f) spirit
1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts
1f2) rarely of the will
1f3) as seat especially of moral character
1g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1g1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
1g2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
1g3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
1g4) as endowing men with various gifts
1g5) as energy of life
1g6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory
1g7) never referred to as a depersonalised force
Related words

• to smell (ri.ach - רִיחַ)
• spirit (ru.ach - רוּחַ)
• aroma (re.ach - רֵיחַ)

Can't you guys do your own Bible study? There have never been more wonderful tools available (for free, even).

I've been studying these things for 48 years. I rejected SDA theology decades ago. Nothing against the people, I had a great time with an SDA family for a few days. Another gentleman gave me a Strongs concordance that I used for years. That was just after I was saved. If you really want to know why many people believe in man having a spirit, Watchman Nee wrote "The Spiritual Man". Mr Nee goes into it in great depth. It is definitely not spiritualism. I was pretty much raised with the occult and I know the difference.
And man is made in the image and likeness of God. God is Spirit.

 

[Greengardener]

This one:

I'm honestly not sure which post to reply to here, because the discussion is so interesting. But as I read back, I found another thought I'd like to add to the mix.

When I was a younger woman and my later-to-be spouse called asking if he could come around after work on Friday, there was something that happened in my heart. Could it be that in our various checklists of keeping the Sabbath (because we are still doing that - checking ourselves in and checking others out) that we have totally forgotten that part? God desires a date with us. And even bigger, in His great love, He wanted everyone to have that same day off so that as many who want to respond to Him can do so. Doesn't that change everything? For me it did. That, along with all those promptings toward righteousness, all that protection from activities that could have irrevocable consequences, and above all His beloved Son's sacrifice for my acceptance once for all, these all point to a relationship that God desires with us. Bulls and goats can't do that, nor can superficial observations no matter how correctly kept. Our obedient "Yes, Lord" with the concurring actions that show our agreement - now, that might get us closer, and what a delightful place that would be. There indeed remains a rest for His people, and apparently God wants it to be in Him and with Him in Christ, both from in inside out and the outside in. May I gently challenge any reader to consider that simple agreement with the most loving and most powerful JWHW to take Him at His word? I wonder what we'd find if we did.

 

[DamianWarS]

Satisfy, Schmatisfy. It has never been enjoined upon man, Jew or Gentile, to "fully satisfy" the Sabbath. Only to remember and keep it, as per chiseled in stone.

Tell me, how did He "fully satisfy" the other 9 commandments?

none of the law was enjoined upon man to fully satisfy, we only keep it but we can't satisfy it's demand (and this is sort of the point) the law creates a demand for them to be satisfied and it does this by design to point to Christ as he is the one who fulfills it and he is the deeper meaning of the law.

The sabbath is a ritual law in that it has a ritual that is repeated during a set time and this is why it uses the language "remember" otherwise it would use the same language as the rest. The other laws are not ritually focused so they don't say "remember not to kill on Mondays" or "remember not to cheat on your wife on Thursdays". They are simply meant to be obeyed at all times whereas the sabbath is only reserved for the day of the Sabbath, outside of that you do not have to remember or keep the sabbath, hence the ritual, hence the instruction to remember.

These rituals laws are more abstract than the moral laws because by design they point to something far deeper but there also isn't an inherent immoral/moral action identified (rest/work aren't inherently good/bad). They also present a problem in that they are never satisfied.

In order to keep the 8th commandment, I simply don't steal and that's good enough and no rituals are needed. But the 4th is different, and one must change their normal routine in order to keep it, then they must go back into their normal routine, and they repeat this for the rest of their life. By design, this presents a problem in that there is a demand of something needing to be satisfied that cannot be so the ritual must be repeated over and over. It is Christ who has satisfied this demand, he kept the letter of the law but he also fulfilled it by resting in the grave over the sabbath then resurrecting the next day and we too can satisfy it, not by keeping the letter, but when we look to Christ then and only then will we receive God's rest.

 

[Bob S]

I just noticed that you quoted my post and didn't even bother to address it at all, except to deflect and claim that I am deficient in spirituality.

And I notice you do the same thing plus trying to make what we write seem trivial

I recognize that spiritualistic things can only be understood spiritualistically. I'm not going there.

The question was:
Why is rest defined as work and why is there no objection to the other 9 commandments?

One of them was a ritual command that could be broken if there was a need. Nine of them were dealing with morality and no excuse for breaking them. The nine are a part of the Royal Law of Love. One was for a day of physical rest and reflection on how God led the Israelites out of Egypt and as I stated could be and was broken.

Christians have Holy Communion as a corporate reflection on Jesus and His giving His life for all mankind so that all can have eternal life. He invites us to rest spiritually in Him every day. If the new covenant would have required that we keep a day for physical rest it would have been written in the New Testament Holy Writ or planted in our hearts. The Holy Spirit would be prompting us to seek out those of like mind. That has never happened. Sabbath observers spend millions trying to convince others that they are required to observe a special day. They have very few takers and many of the takers soon find out that they were duped into believing something not required. I know because I was one of the duped.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I'm honestly not sure which post to reply to here, because the discussion is so interesting. But as I read back, I found another thought I'd like to add to the mix.

When I was a younger woman and my later-to-be spouse called asking if he could come around after work on Friday, there was something that happened in my heart. Could it be that in our various checklists of keeping the Sabbath (because we are still doing that - checking ourselves in and checking others out) that we have totally forgotten that part? God desires a date with us. And even bigger, in His great love, He wanted everyone to have that same day off so that as many who want to respond to Him can do so. Doesn't that change everything? For me it did. That, along with all those promptings toward righteousness, all that protection from activities that could have irrevocable consequences, and above all His beloved Son's sacrifice for my acceptance once for all, these all point to a relationship that God desires with us. Bulls and goats can't do that, nor can superficial observations no matter how correctly kept. Our obedient "Yes, Lord" with the concurring actions that show our agreement - now, that might get us closer, and what a delightful place that would be. There indeed remains a rest for His people, and apparently God wants it to be in Him and with Him in Christ, both from in inside out and the outside in. May I gently challenge any reader to consider that simple agreement with the most loving and most powerful JWHW to take Him at His word? I wonder what we'd find if we did.

Sounds nice. When I got born again, I was on a military naval vessel. There was little concern from the military about the niceties of Sabbath being a Saturday or Sunday. I'm fairly certain that the enemy forces would have welcomed a cessation of fighting so that they could take on a defenceless enemy. Since I am only a fair swimmer, I was quite happy for my colleagues to be ready for conflict 24/7. My job was to keep some defensive equipment working, again 24/7.

Law says obey or else. Grace says be led by the Spirit. God's grace is always sufficient. What is work? Driving to a meeting? If you are running out of petrol, are you permitted to fill up? What is rest? All too hard. Anyway, it's YHWH in Hebrew.