The Sabbath of the TEN Commandments - for all mankind (V2)

[Bob S]

Sorry you are so confused Bob.

 

[BobRyan]

Sorry you are so confused Bob.

was that a "dear diary" or what?

 

[BobRyan]

Its been a day or two since I have been on this thread -- nice to see things are still going well here.

 

[BobRyan]

Very often we have debate and differences on the Sabbath and LAW -- but now and then some Bible details surface that are so incredibly obvious - that scholarship on BOTH sides freely admit to them.

That will be our focus in this thread - so this could be pretty easy for all to find some level of agreement.

Some are interested in this teaching in the Bible about the 7th day Sabbath of the Ten Commandments being for all mankind. (as opposed to the Sabbath of the TEN Commandments being temporary or merely ceremonial).

1. When stating that the Bible Sabbath of the Ten Commandments is part of the moral law of God and is applicable to all mankind I am stating a Bible detail so obvious that all major Christian denominations agree - the TEN are part of the moral law of God written on the heart (see the "Baptist Confession of Faith" sectn 19 and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19 and the Catholic Catechism on the TEN Commandments... etc)

2. Isaiah 56:6-8 specifically singles out gentiles for Sabbath keeping.

3. In the NT we see gentiles keeping Sabbath in Acts 13, 17 and 18

4. in Isaiah 66:23 for all eternity in the New Heavens and New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship".

If anyone feels this is not a valid thread topic or content for "Sabbath and the Law forum" - please contact me.

==============================

Now lets review Bible details



Ex 20
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Genesis 2
Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

No wonder then that God says that for all eternity in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

-- cyclic time -- from Sabbath to Sabbath (one type of cycle) AND "from new moon to new moon" two different cycles.. so then most certainly not "daily"

In fact there is no text in all of scripture where "from Sabbath to Sabbath" means "every day" and we all know it

"From year to year" does not mean 'every day of the year' -- in any text in all of scripture
And "from Sabbath to Sabbath" does not mean every day of the year or every day of the week.

As we all know.

Example - feast of unleavened bread
Exodus 13:10
You shall therefore keep this ordinance in its season from year to year.

Judges 21:19
19 So they said, “Behold, there is a feast of the Lord from year to year in Shiloh, which is on the north side of Bethel, on the east side of the highway that goes up from Bethel to Shechem, and on the south side of Lebonah.

1 Sam 2:19
19 And his mother would make him a little robe and bring it to him from year to year when she would come up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.

did not mean "every day of the year" as we all know.

I am always amazed at how often the details in that OP keep coming back up on various other threads as well. Nice to know we are all looking at the same key points -- even if we differ now and then.

 

[BobRyan]

Just saw this posted on another thread ---

=============================

The OT says the LAW should be "written on the heart" -- that is the New Covenant according to the Old Testament Jeremiah 31:31-34 and according to the New Testament Hebrews 8:6-12.

That is the only way it works.

Romans 8:4-11 Paul says that the lost "do not submit to the LAW of God - neither indeed CAN they". Paul was right.

Moses and Elijah both stand WITH Christ in glory before the cross even happens - in Matthew 17.

They had that Law of God "written on the heart".
=============================

Loved it.

 

[HARK!]

Paul condemns the observance of "special days" in Galatians 4:10. The church in Galatia thought they needed to follow Jewish customs in order to know God.

No he doesn't. You can't turn back to keeping YHWH's Moedim; if as a Pagan you weren't keeping YHWH's Moedim to begin with. Paul is obviously talking about Pagan celebrations like winter solstice, and celebrating Ishtar, and SUNday.

 

[BobRyan]

Paul condemns the observance of "special days" in Galatians 4:10. The church in Galatia thought they needed to follow Jewish customs in order to know God. Paul says that is profoundly mistaken. In Galatians 5:4 he even says it cuts you off of Christ himself.

Sounds rather scary, don't you think?

well .. you might want to take a closer look at Gal 4:10 if you think that is Paul condemning the holy days in the Word of God. The "you" in Gal 4 is not "former Jews turned Christian" it is "former pagans turned Christian" and the "turn again" is a reference to turning back again to their former pagan practices.

4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6 Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.
8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods. 9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

The church of Galatia was not a Jewish Christian church it was a pagan-gentile-turned-Christian church.

 

[Greengardener]

I appreciate the clarity of these last two posts (Hark #206 and Bob Ryan #207). It seems that this section of new testament throws many off the track. I don't think anyone nowadays necessarily wants to deliberately cause the believers to err, but we are at a disadvantage in our understanding because we lack the history behind the words and we are at the mercy of the gentile traditions that have been handed down in the very same way that the Pharisees were at the mercy of their oral traditions: and I see that the results are that we can easily miss the mark if we rely on our traditions rather than on what God said, what really happened, and why the apostles said what they said to the people they were addressing. There is no separate message from God: JHWH says He doesn't change, that He wants a relationship with us and that we can trust every word that He said. Those words will point us to Jesus, those words that Yeshua gave us will point us to JHWH, it's not an either-or. Man is always interested in traditions, and the traditions of men will usually reinforce something with a downward spiral to it. I suggest that it might be much more beneficial to study the traditions that God offered and see what good they can add to our lives and our communities. This applies to the Sabbath as well as the other laws God gave.

 

[BobRyan]

I suggest that it might be much more beneficial to study the traditions that God offered and see what good they can add to our lives and our communities. This applies to the Sabbath as well as the other laws God gave.

God gave commands/laws that define the boundary between righteousness and rebellion , truth and error, sin and obedience. The result as John points out in the NT "sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.

In Genesis 3 Eve could not fathom the depths of God's prohibition against eating from that one tree - and so got confused on the point when in reality the one thing that was never in doubt even to the devil was ... "God said not to eat from that tree".

Traditions of man often work the same as the argument against listening to the Word of God in Genesis 3 - they claim that "yes we know God -said- that, but...."

 

[Andre_b]

Laws dealing with morality are forever and for all mankind. Laws dealing with ritualism were only for the ones they were given to. Sabbath was one of the ritual laws given only to Israel and ended with the ratifying of the new covenant with the Blood of our Savior.

If the sabbath was not important and was simply a "ritual law" according to you. Hen why would God put this one ritual law in the 10 commandments and then give them another 70+ sabbaths, why not put them with the others? Not only that why would he put the 10 commandments inside the ark of the covenant protected by the mercy seat, but the law of Moses in a book on in the side of the ark? What was the meaning of doing this since you want to dismiss the importance of the 10 commandments?

 

[bbbbbbb]

If the sabbath was not important and was simply a "ritual law" according to you. Hen why would God put this one ritual law in the 10 commandments and then give them another 70+ sabbaths, why not put them with the others? Not only that why would he put the 10 commandments inside the ark of the covenant protected by the mercy seat, but the law of Moses in a book on in the side of the ark? What was the meaning of doing this since you want to dismiss the importance of the 10 commandments?

The difficulty comes when folks isolate Saturday from the totality of Sabbath commandments given by God to His chosen people, the Jews. God never merely intended for His people to engage in nineteenth-century American religious practices on Saturday alone, did He? Did He not also command entire years of complete Sabbath rest?

 

[BobRyan]

The difficulty comes when folks isolate Saturday from the totality of Sabbath commandments

Ex 20:11 points specifically at the creation event - before any annual feast days even existed.
Gen 2:1-3 points specifically to the creation event - before any annual feast days even existed.

Bible details so obvious even these first-day groups agree

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

 

[bbbbbbb]

Ex 20:11 points specifically at the creation event - before any annual feast days even existed.
Gen 2:1-3 points specifically to the creation event - before any annual feast days even existed.

Bible details so obvious even these first-day groups agree

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

You, who would be under the Law, why is it that you ignore the actual Law and pick and redefine a handful of commandments that ease your guilty conscience?

 

[Andre_b]

The difficulty comes when folks isolate Saturday from the totality of Sabbath commandments given by God to His chosen people, the Jews. God never merely intended for His people to engage in nineteenth-century American religious practices on Saturday alone, did He? Did He not also command entire years of complete Sabbath rest?

He did say in Mark 2:27 "Sabbath was made for man", this is clear. He could have told them, made for Jews, Israel, but he specifically said man. His chosen people was simply to represent God with his laws. To be separate from all other nations and to prove he's the only true God.

You realize that we worship everyday, the Sabbath rest is one day to devote to him more than the other days. Simply to rest from work and busy life, be with family, to good on the sabbath, and meet and study with other fellow Christians, or preach the word. You can't do that very well during work and with many other distractions. It's a great spiritual and physical refreshment. It's simply a blessing for us. No one will keep it perfectly just like all the other commandments, it's simply to obey his commandments to show our love for him and be guided by the Holy Spirit in all truth.

Entire years? There's only 1 weekly Sabbath in the 10 commandments, the other sabbaths were part of the ceremonial sabbath separate from the 10 commandments.

There's a reason why the 10 commandments are inside the ark of the covenant, covered by the mercy seat and Schekinah glory. The law of Moses is on the side of the ark of the covenant. There must be a reason the this separation and location. Why would he all of a sudden remove something that he wrote in stone and called it a blessing?

With how crazy busy life is nowadays, it is very important that we disconnect from the world once a week. The weekend is already there on a platter and that's the entire reason it has always existed. The battle between which day has been going on for centuries and millennias.

There's an identical ark of the covenant in he heavenly sanctuary in heaven as well. Revelation 11:19 and Revelation 15:5.

 

[bbbbbbb]

If one limits the Law merely to ten of the 613 commandments rather than seeing these ten as being representative of the fullness of the Law then one is in quite a pickle. For example, one can lawfully marry one's close relative or individuals of the same gender, because incest and homosexuality are not prohibited in any of the Ten Commandments.

 

[Bob S]

If the sabbath was not important and was simply a "ritual law" according to you. Hen why would God put this one ritual law in the 10 commandments and then give them another 70+ sabbaths, why not put them with the others? Not only that why would he put the 10 commandments inside the ark of the covenant protected by the mercy seat, but the law of Moses in a book on in the side of the ark? What was the meaning of doing this since you want to dismiss the importance of the 10 commandments?

Please do not alter what I wrote my friend. I should not have to correct your statement. I never stated that the Sabbath was not important and "simply" a ritual. Why can't you face the fact that is was a ritual law. What is wrong with that? I do not speak for God, so I cannot answer why He did what He did. Of course the ten commandments were important. They were God given. That does not change the fact that the Holy Spirit is much more important. The ten, as Israel's guide, were just a glimpse of how Israel was to live. Jesus gave all mankind a new guide, one that is not on stones, but within us. Read all about the transition in 2Cor 3:6-11. Read it verbatim, not as someone else tries to interpret it for you.

 

[Bob S]

He did say in Mark 2:27 "Sabbath was made for man", this is clear. He could have told them, made for Jews, Israel, but he specifically said man. His chosen people was simply to represent God with his laws. To be separate from all other nations and to prove he's the only true God.

How can one "represent God" and remain" separate? Maybe you have been reading to much "Spirit of prophecy". What we all do know is that if God meant for the Sabbath to be for all mankind He surely didn't instruct any other nation to observe it. There is no history of any other nation on Earth that has ever observed the Seventh day.

You realize that we worship everyday, the Sabbath rest is one day to devote to him more than the other days. Simply to rest from work and busy life, be with family, to good on the sabbath, and meet and study with other fellow Christians, or preach the word. You can't do that very well during work and with many other distractions. It's a great spiritual and physical refreshment. It's simply a blessing for us. No one will keep it perfectly just like all the other commandments, it's simply to obey his commandments to show our love for him and be guided by the Holy Spirit in all truth.

Why is your church so critical of those who do the same thing on another day, especially when there is absolutely no command ever given for Gentiles to observe a special day. The new covenant is void of any hint that we are to keep the ritual.

Entire years? There's only 1 weekly Sabbath in the 10 commandments, the other sabbaths were part of the ceremonial sabbath separate from the 10 commandments.

That did not make them any less special. You may believe they are separate, but to those to whom they were given do not.

There's a reason why the 10 commandments are inside the ark of the covenant, covered by the mercy seat and Schekinah glory. The law of Moses is on the side of the ark of the covenant. There must be a reason the this separation and location. Why would he all of a sudden remove something that he wrote in stone and called it a blessing?

If the ten were that important they why would God allow the stones to be lost? I know this is a dead end question, but just maybe some put too much emphasis on the stones and not enough on the better gift of the Holy spirit as the guide for all mankind.

With how crazy busy life is nowadays, it is very important that we disconnect from the world once a week. The weekend is already there on a platter and that's the entire reason it has always existed. The battle between which day has been going on for centuries and millennias.

Life has been crazy since Adam sinned my friend. Man has survived without the Sabbath for centuries. God has blessed millions that have never even heard of the Sabbath.

There's an identical ark of the covenant in he heavenly sanctuary in heaven as well. Revelation 11:19 and Revelation 15:5.

Yes and guess what, the book of the law is right there in the side of it. I am sure it will have great meaning to the Israelites who it was given to. All the Gentiles who will make up the Heavenly host that never heard of an Ark either will not be impressed or will have to be taught what its significance was.

 

[BobRyan]

Why can't you face the fact that is was a ritual law. What is wrong with that? .

Bible scholars on both sides of the Sabbath debate agree on this one thing - the Sabbath commandment in the TEN - is not a "ritual law"

but rather a moral law - written on the heart under the NEW Covenant of Jer 31-31-34

where it is a fact that within that unit of TEN uniquely - the 5th commandment "is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 (As Paul reminds us )

No wonder then that scripture says that for all eternity after the cross, in the new earth, "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

 

[BobRyan]

The difficulty comes when folks isolate Saturday from the totality of Sabbath commandments

Ex 20:11 points specifically at the creation event - before any annual feast days even existed.
Gen 2:1-3 points specifically to the creation event - before any annual feast days even existed.

Bible details so obvious even these first-day groups agree

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

You, who would be under the Law, why is it that you ignore the actual Law

turns out.. it is legal/lawful to point out that in the Sabbath debate Bible scholars on both sides of the Sabbath question agree on a few glaringly obvious Bible details.

 

[Bob S]

Bible scholars on both sides of the Sabbath debate agree on this one thing - the Sabbath commandment in the TEN - is not a "ritual law"

but rather a moral law - written on the heart under the NEW Covenant of Jer 31-31-34

Why would the Sabbath being a ritual command be so upsetting that you would write something that you have not or cannot prove?

where it is a fact that within that unit of TEN uniquely - the 5th commandment "is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 (As Paul reminds us )

What are you trying to prove with that statement?

No wonder then that scripture says that for all eternity after the cross, in the new earth, "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

and go out and walk among the dead bodies and live to be over 100 or as long as trees live and babies born will not die at birth. Is 65 concerning the new Earth.