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The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism
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We are going to take a brief interlude. Let's hear from a Muslim woman who has heard from Jesus>>>>>>
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With all earnestness our choice lies between accepting the victory of Christ or of evil, and between these alternatives only.
Escape from this dilemma there is none. It avails nothing to diminish, as many now teach, the number of the lost; or to assert that they will be finally annihilated. All such modifications leave quite untouched the central difficulty of the popular creed - the triumph of evil. Sin for ever present with its taint, even in a single instance, is sin triumphant. Sin, which God has been unable to remove (and has had no resource but to annihilate the sinner) is sin triumphant and death victorious.
Let Us Still Punish Forever
How strange, too, is the delusion, often advocated, viz., that all real objections to the traditional creed are met, if the grosser forms of teaching it are abandoned. This means, I presume, "let us still punish for ever, though all chance of amendment is over. But do not shock the mass of men, do not mention a literal fire: that is to go too far; retain the agony, but be careful to apply the suffering to the highest part - to the spiritual nature. Rack the spirit with endless woe, and remorse; hand over to the devil for ever one formed in God's Image, one for whom the Son of God died; consign man's spirit to endless evil, it lasts only FOR EVER AND EVER! Who can be so unreasonable as to murmur?"
Men's minds must be deeply drugged by prejudice, and the power of reasoning partly paralyzed, when such pleas are advanced; or when they fancy that, by diminishing the area of damnation they elude all objections to endless evil. As though you could solve moral questions by process of arithmetic, or annul the devil's victory by diminishing the number of his victims. So long as one soul for whom Christ died remains in the devil's grip for ever, so long and so far, is the devil victor. Nothing can by a hair's breadth alter that fact.
-Christ Triumphant-
Escape from this dilemma there is none. It avails nothing to diminish, as many now teach, the number of the lost; or to assert that they will be finally annihilated. All such modifications leave quite untouched the central difficulty of the popular creed - the triumph of evil. Sin for ever present with its taint, even in a single instance, is sin triumphant. Sin, which God has been unable to remove (and has had no resource but to annihilate the sinner) is sin triumphant and death victorious.
Let Us Still Punish Forever
How strange, too, is the delusion, often advocated, viz., that all real objections to the traditional creed are met, if the grosser forms of teaching it are abandoned. This means, I presume, "let us still punish for ever, though all chance of amendment is over. But do not shock the mass of men, do not mention a literal fire: that is to go too far; retain the agony, but be careful to apply the suffering to the highest part - to the spiritual nature. Rack the spirit with endless woe, and remorse; hand over to the devil for ever one formed in God's Image, one for whom the Son of God died; consign man's spirit to endless evil, it lasts only FOR EVER AND EVER! Who can be so unreasonable as to murmur?"
Men's minds must be deeply drugged by prejudice, and the power of reasoning partly paralyzed, when such pleas are advanced; or when they fancy that, by diminishing the area of damnation they elude all objections to endless evil. As though you could solve moral questions by process of arithmetic, or annul the devil's victory by diminishing the number of his victims. So long as one soul for whom Christ died remains in the devil's grip for ever, so long and so far, is the devil victor. Nothing can by a hair's breadth alter that fact.
-Christ Triumphant-
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- Jun 12, 2009
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It is one of my biggest difficulties here, to separate the eternal torture brethren who disagree with me, FROM the religious spirit which they are simply responding with. Especially when I pause to realize they have minds "captured by the snare of the devil" even as mine and FL's were back when we were YOUNG and also thought we knew it all. I know that is unlike you and that other 'one' here who thinks we are so doctrinally adamant because we are just "too old to change." THANK GOD that he's right, concerning my last 46 years anyway. Having one's eyes opened up to 'see' can truly be life changing. And once one stoops in humbleness to see what God hides on the lower shelves of foundational truth, it is amazing what other towering mountains of deception can fall.it's sooooooo stupid!!! they say 'GOD CAN'T DIE!!!' and i feel like getting in my car and driving to their house and pulling a 'Cher' move on them, slap them hard across the face and say 'SNAP OUT OF IT!!!'
there is a universalist forum that i just read in sometimes, have never posted in it... but it seems to me, they are just as confused on OTHER issues, and we should just learn to rest in Christ, and be trusting like little children, the way Jesus told us to be...
i mean, i'm coming to this place of peace with God, a place of no hell, a place where suffering is spiritual exercise and if we just trust Him, it will all be ok, a place where i don't have to be terrified anymore... and i just want to rest under Jesus' wing... so tired... want to rest. you know?
thank you for your kind words... i needed some kind words today... and thank you again for the blessings, they make me feel loved
But, back to your 'pretty fiery' post
against those who 'do not see'....and since no one else here is really even mounting a comeback anymore, I have a questions for you Sister; So how do you answer their question, since it is so important...to you concerning 'God dying'? And then, I'd also like to hear your answer to them concerning another question I have also heard. How could Jesus be tempted like us, and still have been God?HEB 4:15 For we have not a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.
JAM 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted with evil and he himself tempts no one;
I'm just trying to help you, and myself figure out how we can still respond in love, in spite of confronting 'religious spirit driven brethren' who have their theological box wrapped and taped shut.....with Gorilla tape.
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It is one of my biggest difficulties here, to separate the eternal torture brethren who disagree with me, FROM the religious spirit which they are simply responding with. Especially when I pause to realize they have minds "captured by the snare of the devil" even as mine and FL's were back when we were YOUNG and also thought we knew it all. I know that is unlike you and that other 'one' here who thinks we are so doctrinally adamant because we are just "too old to change." THANK GOD at he's right, concerning my last 46 years anyway. Having one's eyes opened up to 'see' can truly be life changing. And once one stoops in humbleness to see what God hides on the lower shelves of foundational truth, it is amazing what other towering mountains of deception can fall.
But, back to your 'pretty fiery' post
HEB 4:15 For we have not a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.
JAM 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted with evil and he himself tempts no one;
I'm just trying to help you, and myself figure out how we can still respond in love, in spite of confronting 'religious spirit driven brethren' who have their theological box wrapped and taped shut.....with Gorilla tape.
Dear Hillsage: Thank's be to Father our theological box wrapped and taped shut with Gorilla tape, is by moments of Divine intervention gradually setting us free!
This little corner of the world is a remarkable place to behold where so many who profess a relationship with Deity find themselves dwelling in actual experience. I know that coming to the present dwelling place has been a course of being expanded, and when our little whiff of knowledge begins to take root, the Unlimited One reaches out in a new grasp of His mighty "hand."
My dear brother, I do appreciate you and the Road our dear Father has brought you. This wee link continues to draw the curious, the contrarians (few), and those who hunger to know what the Restoration of the whole cosmos is all about. There are those at this point of day 36 of this link who may take 10 years like Hillsage to exclaim shazam. I/we are not going to make the way easy: the Mighty One must come into every last one and anoint each word!
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Friends: I trust you will find some time to view these videos! F.L. will get back to the theme of this link soon. There is still more to come. We have only looked at 75 questions requiring answers out of over 200 questions.
Know this: The Living One has a plan, that plan includes you!
Know this: The Living One has a plan, that plan includes you!
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The God, Who is Love, is thus in practice changed into an Almighty Proconsul, while the Savior of Men is disguised in the garb of a Roman Governor. Not the mercy-seat, but the seat of judgment is presented to the eye.
An inflexible code, and an unbending Judge rule all; on every side is diffused a sense of terror. Love is subordinate, sin becomes the central fact; guilt, not grace, comes first. "Our Father" to all practical purposes, disappears, while the great Taskmaster, or the Moral Governor, or the Accountant-General takes His place.
It is not that in so many words the love of God and the divine Fatherhood, are denied, but that they are so often recognized in words only. Shrunken, atrophied, palsied, the doctrine remains, as in some country where the rightful monarch has not been formally dethroned, but has dwindled into a puppet.
Such a system may call itself the Gospel, may point to the support of the greatest names, and be taught in thousands of pulpits (often softened, but the same essentially), yet it is a counterfeit and no true Gospel.
Where has the bright and joyous Christianity vanished which covered the dark recesses of the Catacomb; with every symbol, that could attest joy and triumph, but gave no place to any dark and painful image, not even to the Cross? Why was this? Because to these men the victory of Jesus Christ was a thing really believed in, a fact actually realized, and dominating all else.
Because they believed that death, and its sting, was really, truly, universally SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY. And so they loved to paint Christ radiant with youth and strength, true and absolute Conqueror of death and hell. Perpetual death, moral rottenness for ever festering, what place - such were their thoughts- have such things in a restored creation?
Why is the Christ of religious art now so sad, with anguished features and drooping head - is it because He mourns His approaching defeat?
Why have we so very generally banished from our churches the figure of the risen and triumphant Lord- is it because in our heart of hearts we feel in how many cases He fails to triumph? Whither has gone the Vision so noble, so tender, and yet so strong, of the victorious Christ as He descends into Hades, and opening the prison doors brings the disobedient dead back to life?
Yes, "they have taken our Lord away and we know not where they have laid Him." They have taken "Our Father," too, "the All Father," and we know not where to find Him.
For bread they give us a stony creed; judgment without mercy; hell without hope; evil without end; heaven without pity for the lost and the suffering; and a world here, in which to live is truly misery to the thoughtful, as being but the portal and antechamber to endless woe, for so many of their brothers and sisters in Christ, whom they are commanded to love as they love themselves.
-Christ Triumphant-
An inflexible code, and an unbending Judge rule all; on every side is diffused a sense of terror. Love is subordinate, sin becomes the central fact; guilt, not grace, comes first. "Our Father" to all practical purposes, disappears, while the great Taskmaster, or the Moral Governor, or the Accountant-General takes His place.
It is not that in so many words the love of God and the divine Fatherhood, are denied, but that they are so often recognized in words only. Shrunken, atrophied, palsied, the doctrine remains, as in some country where the rightful monarch has not been formally dethroned, but has dwindled into a puppet.
Such a system may call itself the Gospel, may point to the support of the greatest names, and be taught in thousands of pulpits (often softened, but the same essentially), yet it is a counterfeit and no true Gospel.
Where has the bright and joyous Christianity vanished which covered the dark recesses of the Catacomb; with every symbol, that could attest joy and triumph, but gave no place to any dark and painful image, not even to the Cross? Why was this? Because to these men the victory of Jesus Christ was a thing really believed in, a fact actually realized, and dominating all else.
Because they believed that death, and its sting, was really, truly, universally SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY. And so they loved to paint Christ radiant with youth and strength, true and absolute Conqueror of death and hell. Perpetual death, moral rottenness for ever festering, what place - such were their thoughts- have such things in a restored creation?
Why is the Christ of religious art now so sad, with anguished features and drooping head - is it because He mourns His approaching defeat?
Why have we so very generally banished from our churches the figure of the risen and triumphant Lord- is it because in our heart of hearts we feel in how many cases He fails to triumph? Whither has gone the Vision so noble, so tender, and yet so strong, of the victorious Christ as He descends into Hades, and opening the prison doors brings the disobedient dead back to life?
Yes, "they have taken our Lord away and we know not where they have laid Him." They have taken "Our Father," too, "the All Father," and we know not where to find Him.
For bread they give us a stony creed; judgment without mercy; hell without hope; evil without end; heaven without pity for the lost and the suffering; and a world here, in which to live is truly misery to the thoughtful, as being but the portal and antechamber to endless woe, for so many of their brothers and sisters in Christ, whom they are commanded to love as they love themselves.
-Christ Triumphant-
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- Jun 12, 2009
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That the hand of the Father was so 'a part' of my coming to hear this message, I have no doubts. It was the first retreat I'd ever been to and a small group of us traveled clear across Kansas and partly through Oklahoma to get to Arkansas to first hear 'the message' that seemed to good to be true. Yes it took me 10 years of studying, not 'to believe' but to have whole heartedly and a closed fisted agreement. But also to prove to myself that so many could be wrong. Though I already knew so many other divisive and fractured doctrines has bit the dust in my pilgrimage to where I presently am. I know that my heart bore witness to 'the truth' that first day, but my head???? well I've always been a 'thinker'. And I always knew that this would have to stand the test of a lot of 'hard hardheadedness' from other 'thinkers' more educated than I. Even though 'orthodoxy' allows a hundred different disagreeing theological boxes, I was sure it would never bow to this truth. So far, I have been right.
But, why us? Why were were drawn and why did we have the ears to hear? I still wonder what the Father may have in store for our futures. Especially us elders like you and I FL.
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Dear ClementofA: Merci beaucoup to you as well! It was your post over on that other site which opened again this Board I had forgotten about. Near death experiences tend to mess up your life in some areas and perhaps more areas than we are aware. It has taken F.L. as long as Hillsage & his quest (10 years) to get back to posting.
I found every last video posted yesterday worthy of taking a contemplating view. My friend, I do appreciate you & the part we play in Abba's mighty Purpose in Christ Jesus our Lord!
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