• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

Status
Not open for further replies.

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,397
83
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟573,542.00
Faith
Non-Denom
nobody is arguing with you, FL.... bummer lol
thanks for the blessings man xoxoxox

Dear Hugs: I just posted a story on another site. Since no one has come over to argue with us, perhaps we can change the theme of this link for a nano second.

How to change the world

The ninth week of SEAL training is referred to as Hell Week. It is six days of no sleep, constant physical and mental harassment and one special day at the Mud Flats.

The Mud Flats are an area between San Diego and Tijuana where the water runs off and creates the Tijuana slues—a swampy patch of terrain where the mud will engulf you.

It is on Wednesday of Hell Week that you paddle down to the mud flats and spend the next 15 hours trying to survive the freezing-cold mud, the howling wind and the incessant pressure from the instructors to quit.

As the sun began to set that Wednesday evening, my training class, having committed some "egregious infraction of the rules" was ordered into the mud. The mud consumed each man till there was nothing visible but our heads.

The instructors told us we could leave the mud if only five men would quit—just five men and we could get out of the oppressive cold.

Looking around the mud flat, it was apparent that some students were about to give up. It was still over eight hours till the sun came up—eight more hours of bone-chilling cold.

The chattering teeth and shivering moans of the trainees were so loud it was hard to hear anything. And then, one voice began to echo through the night—one voice raised in song.

The song was terribly out of tune, but sung with great enthusiasm. One voice became two, and two became three, and before long everyone in the class was singing. We knew that if one man could rise above the misery then others could as well.

The instructors threatened us with more time in the mud if we kept up the singing—but the singing persisted. And somehow, the mud seemed a little warmer, the wind a little tamer and the dawn not so far away.

If I have learned anything in my time traveling the world, it is the power of hope. The power of one person—Washington, Lincoln, King, Mandela and even a young girl from Pakistan named Malala—can change the world by giving people hope.

So, if you want to change the world, start singing when you're up to your neck in mud.

Source: The commencement address by Admiral William H. McRaven, ninth commander of U.S. Special Operations Command, at the University of Texas at Austin on 17 May 2014
 
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,397
83
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟573,542.00
Faith
Non-Denom
46. Can finite man frustrate the purposes of the Almighty?

47. Is every individual under obligation to be thankful for his existence?

48. Will this obligation eternally continue?

49. Can any one be thankful for that which, on the whole, is not a blessing?

50. If any one be rendered endlessly miserable, will he be still under obligation to thank God for existence?

51. Would endless misery benefit the Almighty, as the INFLICTOR?

52. Would endless misery benefit the saints, as SPECTATORS?

53. Would endless misery benefit the sinner, as the SUFFERER?

54. If endless punishment be the "wages of sin," could the sinner ever receive payment in full? (Rom. 6:23)

55. As man is a finite being, can he commit an infinite sin?

-To be continued-

Questions Without Answers

The questions were written by A. C. Thomas and appeared in a book by E. H. Lake, entitled "The Key to Truth".

56. If man cannot commit an infinite sin, can he deserve endless punishment?

57. If one sin be infinite, can a million be any more?

58. If ONE sin be NOT infinite, can a million of sins amount to an infinite sin?

59. If sin be infinite, can one sin be greater than the other?

60. If sin be infinite, can it be true that, "where sin abounded grace did MUCH MORE abound?" --(Rom. 5:20)

61. If sin be infinite, can it ever be finished or brought to an end?

62. If ONE sin deserves an eternity of punishment, how much punishment will TEN sins deserve?

63. Do you ardently DESIRE the salvation of all men?

64. Is it true that God "openeth his hand and satisfieth the desire of every living thing?" -- (Ps. 145:16)

65. Do you fervently PRAY for the salvation of all men? (1 Tim. 2:1)

To be continued

Questions requiring answers
 
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,397
83
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟573,542.00
Faith
Non-Denom
"Faithful is this saying and deserving of universal acceptance: and here is the motive of our toiling and wrestling, because we have our hopes fixed on the ever-living God, who is the Saviour of all mankind, and especially of believers. Command this and teach this."

Especially= malista

Only= monon/ monos

Note

1. God is the Saviour of all mankind.

2. He is not a potential Saviour.

3. He is [the] Saviour of all mankind.

4. He is not the Saviour of only those who believe/ trust in Him.

5. He is the Saviour "especially" of those who trust in Him.

6. Command this & teach this.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: needhugs
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,397
83
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟573,542.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Yahweh laughs at the plans of the wicked (the false gospel maybe not so much - He sas that is anathema! Accursed! is the one who spreads it )

Dear slave: You will note the following.

"For He pre-destined us to be adopted by Himself as sons through Jesus Christ--such being His gracious will and pleasure-- to the praise of the splendour of His grace with which He has enriched us in the beloved One. It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."
 
Upvote 0

needhugs

Flibbertyjibbet
Mar 13, 2012
357
85
Visit site
✟36,594.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Dear slave: You will note the following.

"For He pre-destined us to be adopted by Himself as sons through Jesus Christ--such being His gracious will and pleasure-- to the praise of the splendour of His grace with which He has enriched us in the beloved One. It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him."
it IS strange, don't you think, FL? that the Bible leaves it self sooo open to misunderstanding, (hearing they do not hear) that you have to rely on the Holy Spirit to tell you what's what, and even then, He will leave it to you, to step forward, from glory to glory, until you are resting in Him, in peace, joy, all the fruits of the Spirit... but on the road, to that peace and rest, there are so many things that can go wrong, like believing in the english 'eternity' as opposed to 'age'... or thinking Jesus isn't God coz He left room for doubt... it's been a hard road for me... listening to all the mainstream doctrines of hell and death... but it's nice to come to a place where you know you are safe with Christ, safe enough to think 'if i never even talked to Christ again, I know He has me and will always care for me... that safe... but i would never do that, i want Him all the more, knowing this love, this unbelievable love and tenderness'.... it's weird to come to that point, out of the fear of hell and punishment, as a reason to stay, and to a reason that is love... only love'
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,397
83
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟573,542.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Dear slave:

"It is through the Son, at the cost of his own blood, that we are redeemed, freely forgiven through that full and generous grace which has overflowed into our lives and opened our eyes to the truth. For God had allowed us to know the secret of his plan, and it is this: he purposes in his sovereign will that all human history shall be consummated in Christ, that everything that exists in Heaven or earth shall find its perfection and fulfilment in him.

11-14 And here is the staggering thing—that in all which will one day belong to him we have been promised a share (since we were long ago destined for this by the one who achieves his purposes by his sovereign will), so that we, as the first to put our confidence in Christ, may bring praise to his glory!"

Questions for slavejeff=

1. What is the "sovereign will" of the Eternal One?

2. Where does human history "consummate"?

3. What is the "secret of His Plan?

4. What part of "everything" evades your grasp?

5. Does His "sovereign will" as "staggering" as it is come to fulfillment?
 
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,397
83
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟573,542.00
Faith
Non-Denom
it IS strange, don't you think, FL? that the Bible leaves it self sooo open to misunderstanding, (hearing they do not hear) that you have to rely on the Holy Spirit to tell you what's what, and even then, He will leave it to you, to step forward, from glory to glory, until you are resting in Him, in peace, joy, all the fruits of the Spirit... but on the road, to that peace and rest, there are so many things that can go wrong, like believing in the english 'eternity' as opposed to 'age'... or thinking Jesus isn't God coz He left room for doubt... it's been a hard road for me... listening to all the mainstream doctrines of hell and death... but it's nice to come to a place where you know you are safe with Christ, safe enough to think 'if i never even talked to Christ again, I know He has me and will always care for me... that safe... but i would never do that, i want Him all the more, knowing this love, this unbelievable love and tenderness'.... it's weird to come to that point, out of the fear of hell and punishment, as a reason to stay, and to a reason that is love... only love'
 
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,397
83
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟573,542.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Dear Hugs: I hear the Sound of Glory ringing in my poor deaf ears, I see Glory breaking upon my restricted vision! I feel the warmth of a Father we can trust! His Name is Abba and home to Him we are coming. What a wonderful journey it is!
 
  • Optimistic
Reactions: needhugs
Upvote 0

needhugs

Flibbertyjibbet
Mar 13, 2012
357
85
Visit site
✟36,594.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Dear Hugs: I hear the Sound of Glory ringing in my poor deaf ears, I see Glory breaking upon my restricted vision! I feel the warmth of a Father we can trust! His Name is Abba and home to Him we are coming. What a wonderful journey it is!
the journey, arg, it's been a hard road out of mainstream hell... but i do say NOW 'wonderful' :) and 'glory'... and 'love'

“I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance” (Isaiah 45:23, NASB)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,397
83
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟573,542.00
Faith
Non-Denom
the journey, arg, it's been a hard road out of mainstream hell... but i do say NOW 'wonderful' :) and 'glory'... and 'love'

Dear Hugs: we managed for one (nearly whole day) no resistance to the glorious news of the Glorious One. The Father is looking for those who will think like He does; who will lean on His Bosom in deep union and cry "Abba Father."

Your painful journey is coming to a close, swallowed up in the Journey of all journeys! Press thru "hell week" into the expanse of the One who swallows death!
 
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,397
83
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟573,542.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Dear slave:

"It is through the Son, at the cost of his own blood, that we are redeemed, freely forgiven through that full and generous grace which has overflowed into our lives and opened our eyes to the truth. For God had allowed us to know the secret of his plan, and it is this: he purposes in his sovereign will that all human history shall be consummated in Christ, that everything that exists in Heaven or earth shall find its perfection and fulfilment in him.

11-14 And here is the staggering thing—that in all which will one day belong to him we have been promised a share (since we were long ago destined for this by the one who achieves his purposes by his sovereign will), so that we, as the first to put our confidence in Christ, may bring praise to his glory!"

Questions for slavejeff=

1. What is the "sovereign will" of the Eternal One?

2. Where does human history "consummate"?

3. What is the "secret of His Plan?

4. What part of "everything" evades your grasp?

5. Does His "sovereign will" as "staggering" as it is come to fulfillment?

http://qbible.com/ebr-rotherhams-emphasized-bible-1902/ephesians/1.html#10
 
Upvote 0

needhugs

Flibbertyjibbet
Mar 13, 2012
357
85
Visit site
✟36,594.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Dear Hugs: we managed for one (nearly whole day) no resistance to the glorious news of the Glorious One. The Father is looking for those who will think like He does; who will lean on His Bosom in deep union and cry "Abba Father."

Your painful journey is coming to a close, swallowed up in the Journey of all journeys! Press thru "hell week" into the expanse of the One who swalloiws death!
that's beautiful, you have such a way with words, especially when you become so willing to speak to the heart of another <3
 
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,397
83
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟573,542.00
Faith
Non-Denom
that's beautiful, you have such a way with words, especially when you become so willing to speak to the heart of another <3

Dear Hugs: many moons ago a brother sent me the little logo found on the left of this post. That logo F.L. one day hopes to be. Yes, Hugs, we are a kingdom of priests standing with angelic Hosts calling to one another in antiphonal worship of "Holy">>>>>>"Holy">>>>>"Holy" is the Lord. He is the Focus of our journey. The whole creation will one day join us IN the Name of all names; every last one in the heavens, the earth and the underworld! Every last one.
 
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,397
83
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟573,542.00
Faith
Non-Denom
No.
Yahweh allowed hasatan to deceive men with it.

Dear slavejeff: F.L. will be happy to place before you the emphasis of Abba's Purpose in the Son of His love in whatever translation you choose!

https://www.biblestudytools.com/ephesians/1-10-compare.html

"This plan, which God will complete when the time is right, is to bring all creation together, everything in heaven and on earth, with Christ as head."

"a long-range plan in which everything would be brought together and summed up in him, everything in deepest heaven, everything on planet earth."
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Hillsage
Upvote 0

needhugs

Flibbertyjibbet
Mar 13, 2012
357
85
Visit site
✟36,594.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
"All Christians are universalists about creation—God created *all things, through his Word. And creation is not simply about origins (everything comes *from God), but about purpose and destiny. Created things have an end, a destiny, and that end, as the beginning, is God. The end of creation is there in its beginning: creation is *from God, *for God, and oriented *towards God, reaching towards its potential and completion *in God. So the question of universalism and hell can be framed in terms of whether or not God will bring all creation to the goal for which he intended it…?" —Robin Parry
 
  • Winner
Reactions: FineLinen
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,397
83
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟573,542.00
Faith
Non-Denom
“The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death” (1 Cor.- 15:26).

One of the thoughts that gripped me that day in 1940, and held me almost spellbound in the half-opened door, was this: According to the Bible the first death would be all past for the church at the time of the second coming of Christ, and later it would be all past for the wicked and lost. The only death left will be the second death. Will the second death be destroyed, also? Or will it be the means through which death itself will be abolished (Heb.2:14,15)?

Many people do very careless thinking about death and its conquest. The writer used to believe, as many folks do, that death would be destroyed as soon as the act of dying stopped. How partial a viewpoint that is.

This entire present earthly scene is under the condemnation of death. Even our scientific definition of life confesses it: “Life is the sum total of the forces that oppose death,” it says. And everyone knows that life here and now can oppose death for only a brief time at best. “The path of glory leads but to the grave.”

One bad apple

In one of his books, Glenn Clark discusses the problem of why a rotten apple in a barrel of good ones will spoil the whole lot, but a good apple in a barrel of rotten ones is powerless to make the rotten ones sound. He says that the good apple has the stroke of death in it. When the stem was severed from the tree its source of life and health and growth was removed. Even a good apple is a dying thing.

He should have added that death was hovering near the apple while its stem was still fast to the tree. Just let the wind swing the apple against a limb near at hand and break the skin, immediately rot sets in. Let a bird pick a hole in it, or a worm enter its body, at once the forces of decay and death have gained an entrance, and the end is putrefaction. “In the midst of life we are in death.”

The first warning against disobedience, according to the Bible, is “In the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” The words “thou shalt surely die,” are often translated “dying thou shalt die,” or “thou art dying to die.” That is, “dying” is a process, and “to die” is the final act or event in the process. When Adam sinned, it was life and vitality that he lost; it was death and dissolution that he received. The word “death” means vastly more than the act or event of dying; it means not only the state into which one passes in the act of dying but also the condition which makes such an event and such a state possible.

Death

For death is not only a condition or state which affects the physical body; it is primarily the state or condition of the spiritual life in which unregenerate men now live. Until men are made alive in Christ they are “dead in trespasses and sins,” here and now. It will be the condition or state of the lost “in the ages to come,” “having no hope, and without God in the world.” Anyone apart from God in Christ is “dead,” whether in this life, or in any other. “He that hath the Son hath life, and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12). Physical (i.e., literal) death is only one of the results of a previous spiritual “death.” When Adam sinned, fellowship was broken between himself and God, “in Whom we live, and move, and have our being” (Acts 17:28). It was not merely his physical demise after 930 years that constituted his death, but his separation from God on the very day he sinned was the inner reality of his death. That separation with its fear, its alienation from God’s love and care and intimate fellowship, is the real death that is to be destroyed (Luke 15:24,32; Rom.-8:6,7; Eph.2:15; Col.2:13).

How Silly

How silly it is to teach, then, as the writer used to do, that when the act of dying is ended, death would be destroyed! He locked up the vast majority of mankind in eternal torment, blind to the fact that he was just holding them in death forever. In the economic realm, we use the term “freezing” to signify static continuance in financial immobility. So did the writer “freeze” the great majority of men in the death of eternal fire!

And when he changed his thinking, in order to get rid of such an awful God as eternal torment pictures, and accepted extermination, he did no better–so far as destroying death is concerned. If death is the absence of life–and that must be true of anything that ever had life and later on lost it–then extermination is only another method of decreeing eternal death on the vast majority of mankind. In the case of either “eternal torment” or “extermination,” death would reign forever!

Death Will Be Destroyed

Death will be destroyed by putting life in its place. That nullifies the objection made by many that the teaching of Reconciliation destroys the hope of everlasting life. They say that Jesus’ words in Matthew 25:46 make punishment and future life the same length: “And these [the wicked] shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.” If the punishment of the wicked is only age-lasting, not everlasting, then the reward of the righteous is also age-lasting, and not everlasting. This is their argument, and so far as the above quotation is concerned they are correct. Now the promise of “eonian life” is a marvelous provision. It is the proclamation to all who believe, of the privilege of living in Christ in this present life, and living with Christ, reigning with Christ, and being like Christ, “in the ages to come” (Eph.2:7). During those eons when He is bringing the entire universe into harmony with God, the church will share with Christ in all that glorious activity. But the assurance of unending life is not in this offer, wonderful as it is. For the eons will end! Rather, the assurance of unending life lies in the promise that we shall be made immortal when Christ calls us into that fellowship of service with Himself. Our alienation and separation from God are already ended in this life, through Christ. But it is not until His second coming that immortality is conferred, through change for living saints, and through resurrection for dead saints. Immortality is life over which death has no power. So it embodies unlimited life.

Death Replaced With Life

The only way that death will ever be destroyed is to replace it with life. The only way to get rid of darkness is to obliterate it with light. The only way to get rid of error is to supplant it with truth. The only way to get rid of sorrow is to submerge it in joy. So, some glad day, “Death will be swallowed up in victory” (1 Cor.15:54)! And God will do this by destroying, for every being in the universe, all alienation and separation from God. But that can take place only when the Lord of life has proven Himself Lord over death! Not till then will the Son “deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father.” When that joyous day comes, men will answer their own questions, “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” (1 Cor.15:55) by the triumphant shout, “Thanks be to God Who giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Cor.15:57). “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ, shall all be made alive” (1 Cor.15:22).

By Dr. Loyal Hurley
 
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,397
83
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟573,542.00
Faith
Non-Denom
"All Christians are universalists about creation—God created *all things, through his Word. And creation is not simply about origins (everything comes *from God), but about purpose and destiny. Created things have an end, a destiny, and that end, as the beginning, is God. The end of creation is there in its beginning: creation is *from God, *for God, and oriented *towards God, reaching towards its potential and completion *in God. So the question of universalism and hell can be framed in terms of whether or not God will bring all creation to the goal for which he intended it…?" —Robin Parry

https://theologicalscribbles.blogspot.com/2009/08/i-am-evangelical-universalist.html
 
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,397
83
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟573,542.00
Faith
Non-Denom
We are going to spend a few moments contemplating the scope of the Master in His reach for the mass of mankind made sinners through Adam1.

"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

For unto this end was the gospel preached even to the dead, that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."

It is an interesting fact that the Master who eats death is unlimited in His ministry to the heavens, the earth and the underworld. He leads captivity captive!

https://www.biblestudytools.com/ephesians/4-8-compare.html

"For this reason he says, He went up on high, taking his prisoners with him, and gave freely to men."

::Jonathan Mitchell's New Testament Translation::

8. For this reason He (it) is constantly saying,

"Going up (stepping up; ascending) into a height (unto [the] summit)

He led (leads) captive a captive multitude [or: He led "captivity" captive]

He gave (gives) gifts to mankind (or: to/for the men)."

9 Now (but) this "He went up (ascended)," what is it if not (except) that He also descended (stepped down) into the lower parts (the under regions) of the earth (land)?

10 The One stepping down (descending) is Himself also the One stepping (going) up (ascending) far above (back up over) all of the heavens, to the end that He may make the Whole full [or: may fill up everything (the All)
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.