The replacement of the heavens and earth occur at the second coming, not AD70

[sovereigngrace]

What promise given to us are you talking about?

Our new spiritual bodies are physical, just like Christ's was after the resurrection. Thomas was able to put his finger inside the nail prints in Jesus hands John 20:25-29. Jesus was able to have breakfast with the disciples in His resurrected body (Luke 24:42-43).

1 John 3:2 says, "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

Philippians 3:20-21 says, “For our citizenship is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall metaschematizo (or) change our vile body, that it may be summorphos (or) fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.”

How was Christ's body after the resurrection?

Luke 24:38-39 tells us: "And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

We will be flesh and bones, not flesh and blood.

 

[Davy]

....
Preterists spiritualize these physical realities that we enjoy with the human eye in order to justify their mistaken belief that Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 are wholly historic records referring to AD70. They argue that these figuratively represent Christ’s judgment of Jerusalem because of its rejection of Him, in order to sustain their position. They reject the idea that they are describing the climactic coming of Christ, the end of the world, and the wholesale regeneration of creation. Many Futurists relate these chapters to the end of a future seven years tribulation. But they have to spiritualize the language because a literal reading of it would immediately forbid Premillennialism. After all, these same texts would strongly deny survivors populating a future millennial earth, as the whole natural realm that we see and live in would be totally removed. Both of these positions are therefore untenable.

That part in bold isn't where Futurists stray from those Scriptures. They stray by trying to add a pre-trib rapture into those signs Jesus gave. So you cannot just use an argument against Premillennialism just because you may be against that, because there are post-tribulationalists that are premillennials also.

Also, Christ's Olivet discourse, when all 3 examples are studied together, reveal a time of "great tribulation" at the end of this present world just prior to Christ's return. The Luke 21 version reveals Antichrist's armies surrounding Jerusalem, and Christ's warning to get out of Judea because of the 'the days of vengeance', which refers to the day of Christ's 2nd coming and the end of this world. And then Jesus gives the sign of His 2nd coming being immediately after the tribulation of those days, so someone who misses these points in the Scripture do show they haven't really studied them thoroughly.

 

[solid_core]

So what hope is there for us today over the grave?

Our life does not end in grave. Old testament saints were waiting in sheol, we are not.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Do you agree that Jesus and apostles said it will everything happen in their generation? We cannot move next, if you do not answer this.

If they did, then we must look for what really happen in their generation and posteriori explain their prophecies.

Of course not! He was only talking about the signs that precede His literal final future return.

Jesus said in Matthew 23:37–39: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.”

Jesus, first of all, speaks about the destruction of the temple in AD70, as a result of Israel's unbelief. He then talks about a future climactic day in the future when every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Here were two key events that would happen in the then future. The disciples were obviously inquisitive as to when these would happen. They then asked two questions in Matthew 24 in response to our Lord’s words. Matthew 24:3 records:

1. “Tell us, when shall these things be?”
2. “and what shall be the sign of thy coming (parousia), and of the end (sunteleías, meaning completion, or consummation) of the world (age)?”

This proves that the disciples were enquiring about the realization of these two aforementioned days. They wanted to know about their fulfillment. Sadly, Preterists and Premillennialists each ignore the other's events relating to the past and the future. Both are therefore missing the context and meaning. The context proves that Israel will be forced to cry "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord" at Christ's future "parousia," at "the end of the age.”

This generation

I believe Christ's shift to answering the second question (re the future second coming) comes in Matthew 24:23, Mark 13:21 and Luke 21:25. These are all parallel accounts. Our Lord describes events that will precede His return, and then speaks about that climactic event also. The detail re generation speaks that genea alive when He returns in power and glory.

Jesus said in Matthew 24:23-51: “Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven [Gr. ouranos] and earth [Gr. gē] shall pass away [Gr. parerchomai], but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Jesus said in Mark 13:21-37: “And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Heaven [Gr. ouranos] and earth [Gr. gē] shall pass away [Gr. parerchomai]: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”

Jesus said in Luke 21:25-36: “And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven [Gr. ouranos] and earth [Gr. gē] shall pass away [Gr. parerchomai]: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

 

[solid_core]

Of course not! He was only talking about the signs that precede His literal final future return.

Jesus said in Matthew 23:37–39: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.”

Jesus, first of all, speaks about the destruction of the temple in AD70, as a result of Israel's unbelief. He then talks about a future climactic day in the future when every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Here were two key events that would happen in the then future. The disciples were obviously inquisitive as to when these would happen. They then asked two questions in Matthew 24 in response to our Lord’s words. Matthew 24:3 records:

1. “Tell us, when shall these things be?”
2. “and what shall be the sign of thy coming (parousia), and of the end (sunteleías, meaning completion, or consummation) of the world (age)?”

This proves that the disciples were enquiring about the realization of these two aforementioned days. They wanted to know about their fulfillment. Sadly, Preterists and Premillennialists each ignore the other's events relating to the past and the future. Both are therefore missing the context and meaning. The context proves that Israel will be forced to cry "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord" at Christ's future "parousia," at "the end of the age.”

This generation

I believe Christ's shift to answering the second question (re the future second coming) comes in Matthew 24:23, Mark 13:21 and Luke 21:25. These are all parallel accounts. Our Lord describes events that will precede His return, and then speaks about that climactic event also. The detail re generation speaks that genea alive when He returns in power and glory.

Jesus said in Matthew 24:23-51: “Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven [Gr. ouranos] and earth [Gr. gē] shall pass away [Gr. parerchomai], but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Jesus said in Mark 13:21-37: “And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Heaven [Gr. ouranos] and earth [Gr. gē] shall pass away [Gr. parerchomai]: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”

Jesus said in Luke 21:25-36: “And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven [Gr. ouranos] and earth [Gr. gē] shall pass away [Gr. parerchomai]: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

Not sure what you are saying. Try to say it more shortly.

Lets start with the first one:

For the Son of man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Mt 16:27

Can you read this verse and think "He was talking about us" or "He was saying that His second coming will occur 2,000 years later"? If so, can you illustrate the logical chain of thoughts in your head?

 

[sovereigngrace]

That part in bold isn't where Futurists stray from those Scriptures. They stray by trying to add a pre-trib rapture into those signs Jesus gave. So you cannot just use an argument against Premillennialism just because you may be against that, because there are post-tribulationalists that are premillennials also.

Also, Christ's Olivet discourse, when all 3 examples are studied together, reveal a time of "great tribulation" at the end of this present world just prior to Christ's return. The Luke 21 version reveals Antichrist's armies surrounding Jerusalem, and Christ's warning to get out of Judea because of the 'the days of vengeance', which refers to the day of Christ's 2nd coming and the end of this world. And then Jesus gives the sign of His 2nd coming being immediately after the tribulation of those days, so someone who misses these points in the Scripture do show they haven't really studied them thoroughly.

I totally disagree.

The disciples asked two questions in Matthew 24 in response to our Lord’s words.

Matthew 24:3 records:

1. “Tell us, when shall these things be?”
2. “and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”

Mark 13:4 records:

1. “Tell us, when shall these things be?”
2. “and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled (finished or ended)?”

Luke 21:7 records:

1. “Master, but when shall these things be?”
2. “and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?”

Christ addressed both questions and both eras in chapter 24. However, because of the intermingling of His response, many Bible students suffer great confusion in identifying what aspect of the teaching relates to AD 70 and what relates to the Second Coming.

In His response to the first question in Matthew 24:15-22, He spoke of the end of the 40 year probationary period (AD 70), saying, “When ye (the disciples) therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, whoso readeth, let him understand: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation (thlipsis), such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.”

Mark 13:14-20 says, “when ye (the disciples) shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. For in those days shall be tribulation (thlipsis), such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.”

This can only refer to the wrath of God being poured out on Jerusalem that destroyed the existing socio-political/cultural/religious system of Judaism, which was an offence to God. This people were decimated. Their religious system was effectively brought to nought. Nothing before AD 70, or after it, could compare in regard to the extent of its demise. Luke 21:20-24 reinforces that we are looking at AD 70.

Luke’s parallel passage, in Luke 21:20-24, records, “when ye (the disciples) shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! For there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”

 

[sovereigngrace]

Not sure what you are saying. Try to say it more shortly.

Lets start with the first one:

For the Son of man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Mt 16:27

Can you read this verse and think "He was talking about us" or "He was saying that His second coming will occur 2,000 years later"? If so, can you illustrate the logical chain of thoughts in your head?

What i am saying is:

1. Christ spoke about 2 events.
2. The disciples asked Him to explain those 2 events, and when they would happen.
3. Christ answered those 2 questions about 2 events.

 

[solid_core]

What i am saying is:

1. Christ spoke about 2 events.
2. The disciples asked Him to explain those 2 events, and when they would happen.
3. Christ answered those 2 questions about 2 events.

Which two events do you see here:

For the Son of man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Mt 16:27

Can you separate this verse into 2 events that are 2,000 years from each other and prove that this separation is natural and belongs there?

 

[Davy]

....

And I totally disagree with your summation of those 7 signs Jesus was giving them, especially in light of His revelation in the parable of the fig tree that ALL ... of "these things", meaning All those signs, would be seen by the generation of His 2nd coming. That puts all of "these things" at the end just prior to His return, not 70 A.D.

The 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem is not what He was covering in His Olivet discourse. The Daniel 11:31 event may seem that it was about Antiochus IV back in 165 B.C., but Antiochus did not completely fulfill all the Daniel 11 Scripture. So he only served as a type, like a blueprint for the real, final "abomination of desolaton" by the final Antichrist at the end of this world. And the context of Jesus' warning from the Book of Daniel was to a future event linked with the coming of a false-Messiah that is to work great signs and wonders that if possible, would deceive even His very elect. That certainly did not happen in 165 B.C., nor 70 A.D. The Jerusalem temple burned down before the Romans could even get control of it. And what Antiochus did in 165 B.C. was about 200 years earlier than Christ's warning about it. So simply common sense based on both the Scripture evidence and historical evidence is that Jesus was pointing to a future event at the end of this world, just prior to His 2nd coming.

And the idea of "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus forewarned, is to be a time like never seen before on earth, nor ever will be again. Already, there's been greater tribulations in the world than 70 A.D. Jerusalem. Those who say there hasn't are only fooling theirselves.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Lets start with the first one:

For the Son of man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Mt 16:27

Can you read this verse and think "He was talking about us" or "He was saying that His second coming will occur 2,000 years later"? If so, can you illustrate the logical chain of thoughts in your head?

This has nothing to do with Matthew 24. I'm not sure why you were moving on from that.

Anyway, the parallel passage in Mark 9:1 adds more detail to the statement: “Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power (or dunamis).”

Whilst Christ introduced the kingdom with His earthly ministry, the kingdom of God did not “come with power” until Pentecost. The Holy Ghost falling upon them equipped the disciples to take the Gospel out into the nations, with remarkable courage, strength and success.

The Greek word here for “power” is dunamis – where we get the English words dynamite or dynamo from.

God was saying that the kingdom of God was soon going to be explosive. Believers were going to have a turbo put into their engine that would embolden them to invade the nations with the glorious Gospel of Christ.

The Lord said shortly before His ascension, in Luke 24:49, “tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power (or dunamis) from on high.”

Jesus said in Acts 1:8, “ye shall receive power (or dunamis), after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you.”

Ephesians 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power (or dunamis) that worketh in us,

 

[sovereigngrace]

Which two events do you see here:

For the Son of man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Mt 16:27

Can you separate this verse into 2 events that are 2,000 years from each other and prove that this separation is natural and belongs there?

I just did above! Please read it again!

 

[sovereigngrace]

And I totally disagree with your summation of those 7 signs Jesus was giving them, especially in light of His revelation in the parable of the fig tree that ALL ... of "these things", meaning All those signs, would be seen by the generation of His 2nd coming. That puts all of "these things" at the end just prior to His return, not 70 A.D.

The 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem is not what He was covering in His Olivet discourse. The Daniel 11:31 event may seem that it was about Antiochus IV back in 165 B.C., but Antiochus did not completely fulfill all the Daniel 11 Scripture. So he only served as a type, like a blueprint for the real, final "abomination of desolaton" by the final Antichrist at the end of this world. And the context of Jesus' warning from the Book of Daniel was to a future event linked with the coming of a false-Messiah that is to work great signs and wonders that if possible, would deceive even His very elect. That certainly did not happen in 165 B.C., nor 70 A.D. The Jerusalem temple burned down before the Romans could even get control of it. And what Antiochus did in 165 B.C. was about 200 years earlier than Christ's warning about it. So simply common sense based on both the Scripture evidence and historical evidence is that Jesus was pointing to a future event at the end of this world, just prior to His 2nd coming.

And the idea of "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus forewarned, is to be a time like never seen before on earth, nor ever will be again. Already, there's been greater tribulations in the world than 70 A.D. Jerusalem. Those who say there hasn't are only fooling theirselves.

Futurists are wrong in that they ignore the first question. Preterists are wrong in that they ignore the second question. Both sides are wrong. Jesus was speaking about two different events at two different times.

 

[solid_core]

I just did above! Please read it again!

There are many places where Jesus or apostles say that the second coming of Christ will take place in their life span.

If we want some order in our discussion, lets see those verses one after another.

Lets start with Mt 16:27, because its before Mt 24. We can get to Mt 24 later.

For the Son of man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Mt 16:27

Can you separate this verse into 2 events that are 2,000 years from each other and prove that this separation is natural and belongs there?

 

[sovereigngrace]

There are many places where Jesus or apostles say that the second coming of Christ will take place in their life span.

If we want some order in our discussion, lets see those verses one after another.

Lets start with Mt 16:27, because its before Mt 24. We can get to Mt 24 later.

For the Son of man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Mt 16:27

Can you separate this verse into 2 events that are 2,000 years from each other and prove that this separation is natural and belongs there?

Absolutely. Scripture often does that. It will talk about diverse events in the same verse. That is not a difficult concept to grasp as a Bible student.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Our life does not end in grave. Old testament saints were waiting in sheol, we are not.

1. So, when do we receive our new bodies?
2. Does this earth just continue on in corruption? Is there an end to sin, death and corruption?
3. When is perfect peace finally introduced?
4. When is incorruption introduced?
5. When is Satan and his demons finally destroyed?

 

[solid_core]

Absolutely. Scripture often does that. It will talk about diverse events in the same verse. That is not a difficult concept to grasp as a Bible student.

So, do it, separeate diverse events in this text and prove that its natural:

For the Son of man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Mt 16:27

Show me how you will work with this text to make it say that Jesus will come 2,000 years later, at minimum. Because I, personally, cannot imagine what to do with this text to make it be about our future.

 

[solid_core]

1. So, when do we receive our new bodies?
2. Does this earth just continue on in corruption? Is there an end to sin, death and corruption?
3. When is perfect peace finally introduced?
4. When is incorruption introduced?
5. When is Satan and his demons finally destroyed?

1. I do not know. I do not even know why should we need a body, when we are spiritual. We just need to leave this one.
2. This universe is capable of existing for billions of years, its not forever, but much more people can be born and saved in the future. Kind of agnostic about how long this earth will continue to sustain human life.
3. We can have perfect peace right now, it is already accessible, for sure.
4. When you die, for sure.
5. I do not know, kind of agnostic. You are asking about Revelation and Revelation is quite a difficult book.

 

[sovereigngrace]

So, do it, separeate diverse events in this text and prove that its natural:

For the Son of man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Mt 16:27

Show me how you will work with this text to make it say that Jesus will come 2,000 years later, at minimum. Because I, personally, cannot imagine what to do with this text to make it be about our future.

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

After giving this general spiritual counsel the Lord them points their eyes forward to two future events. The first is His climatic return, the second is their empowerment at Pentecost.

Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

This is the time when Jesus This is mankind and then judges mankind. This is judgment day. This is not happened before. This will happen in the future.

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Jesus here points His disciples empowerment at Pentecost. Admittedly, others argue it is talking about the Mount of Transfiguration.

 

[sovereigngrace]

1. I do not know. I do not even know why should we need a body, when we are spiritual. We just need to leave this one.
2. This universe is capable of existing for billions of years, its not forever, but much more people can be born and saved in the future. Kind of agnostic about how long this earth will continue to sustain human life.
3. We can have perfect peace right now, it is already accessible, for sure.
4. When you die, for sure.
5. I do not know, kind of agnostic. You are asking about Revelation and Revelation is quite a difficult book.

So you do not believe in the literal physical future coming of the Lord Jesus Christ?

 

[solid_core]

So you do not believe in the literal physical future coming of the Lord Jesus Christ?

I do not think its probable. I think its much more probable that He returned in the first century as He promised to His apostles.

Its not "believe or do not believe", its not a dogmatic question for me.