The "Rapture" potentially VERY CLOSE!! ~~ A View of Scripture and Current Events.

[justsurfing]

No one, absolutely no one, is born in Adam as a reprobate, but has to choose the Light that lights them [Christ], on coming into the world, or reject that light when they come to the understanding of good and evil, and choose evil, and continue choosing evil with knowledge, until they are without remedy and get their name blotted out of the Book if Life.

Ticklish ears may not like the truth, but it is truth that sets free. God rejected Esau and thus left Esau in reprobation by Sovereign choice. This is no decision based on merit. God made His decision before either child had been born or had done anything good nor bad. God made a decision to "make out of Jacob" a good seed by God's own Sovereign election to salvation. God made a decision to leave Esau a child of wrath in the fall into sin into which Adam placed the entire human race.

The protestation is not against the Bible being "misinterpreted". The protestation is against the Sovereign decision of God to do as He wills with His creation. There is no "moral outrage" that God chooses to leave sinners in sin. There is only the human rage of the sinful nature which wills for man to be God and to have all power of rebellion in sin to do as he pleases and to declare his will "good". This is sin.

You accuse of me of blasphemy, but it is you who is in rebellion against God raging with the rage of Satan against the Sovereign good pleasure of God to do as He wills with His creation.

As the scripture plainly states, the choice of God to election or reprobation does not depend upon man, man's will, nor man's effort, nor man's desire. Rather, salvation and election are wholly by grace -- with no merit of man -- and depends purely on God deciding to have compassion on whom He shall have compassion. Salvation is 100% the mercy of God and nothing else. Salvation is a perfect work wrought wholly by God by grace wholly by His own mercy and by His own Spirit. Without God choosing to have mercy, man will die in the rebellion of sin in the image of his father Satan spiritually into which he was born in the flesh. Those may be hard truths, but the desire for man to be God is slain by engrafting that truth. Then, and only then, in obedient submission to God in His Sovereignty can the glory of God's Love in true perfection be known at it's foundation in Jesus Christ alone.

To God be all the glory. To man be none. If this seems "blasphemous", then one knows who one is worshipping: man.

Romans 9:10-16 (King James Version)
10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

 

[justsurfing]

Now, to "get to" Satan, what happens to Satan at the marriage supper of the Lamb, and how Satan emerges from the abyss after the 1000 years in a human body as the 2nd beast of Revelation 13.

#1. The first beast of Revelation 13 arises "from the sea". I did a post on the "Great Falling Away". The point can be gleaned therein that the first beast arises to commit the abomination of desolation at the midpoint of the 7 year apocalyptic period when the wickedness of the world is come to fullness in their full blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Endtime Prophecy ~ Part V: The Great Falling Away | 12 Star Truth This is how the first beast arises "from the sea".

#2. The second beast arises from the earth. Arising from the earth reveals the second beast rising from the dead. Let's look more carefully at these scriptures:

Revelation 13:11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

The 2nd beast that comes up out of the earth has two horns like a lamb and speaks like a dragon. This is Satan come himself. You see that the 2nd beast comes after the first beast. The first beast has "come and gone". The first beast "came and went" before the 2nd beast arose from the dead. The 2nd beast comes "after" the first beast.

We see that the first beast has died "whose deadly wound was healed". The first beast died and was gone. Now, the second beast rises from the dead coming up from the earth. The first beast is gone. The 2nd beast has come. The 2nd beast causes all in the earth to worship the image of the first beast who died... as the 2nd beast rises from the dead.

The "deadly wound" of the first beast is "healed". Therefore, the body of the beast which had died has now "come alive". The 2nd beast wants the world to worship the first beast.

This is so profoundly spiritual, it takes scripture interpreting scripture for it to "be made known". Also, I will qualify statements.

#1. Every view has to be subject to "more light" coming from scripture that may require us to "change our view".. especially on things this profoundly spiritual completely "outside the reach" of human intellect.

#2. God takes the same scriptures here, and is going to apply these scriptures to the 7 year period of the apocalypse and Satan emerging from the abyss at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ. Therefore,
a. We have to let scripture interpret scripture to know "where and when" the scriptures apply to which period.
b. Something may "happen" in the 7 year period that is repeated in Satan emerging at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ ~~ but it is happening at a greater "dimension" of fulfillment. For example, it appears Satan does come personally to lead the rebellion against God claiming to be "God the Father" while the anti-christ is denoted as counterfeiting "God the Son".

In my view, the "theme" of the 7 year period is of the anti-christ usurping the role of God the Son - Jesus Christ - claiming to be "messiah". Yet, when the Final Apocalypse occurs, it appears to me that Satan will come personally as the 2nd beast usurping the role of God the Father - claiming to be the Father and the God of the first beast.

Personally, I cannot see Satan coming during the 7 year apocalypse claiming to be God the Father (or perhaps "Allah") in relation to the 666 beast antichrist who claims to be "Mahdi" or "Messiah". I see Satan coming out of the abyss at the end of the 1000 year period. However, a poster on the site wants to challenge that view and state that Satan comes himself at the midpoint of the apocalypse.

Therefore, to the Law and to the Testimony!!

I'll start to "lay out the case" and see if it can be successfully countered so that my mind is changed. Or, perhaps, the other poster will see my case and come to agree. Either way, as long as we focus on the Word and make scriptural cases, it's going to be beneficial. This may end up being a "public apologetics challenge" from two diverse views. I'll come back and share more scripture from elsewhere in the Bible.


Revelation 13

1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[justsurfing]

Marriage Supper of the Lamb. What we want to try to see "with clarity" is what happens to the 666 beast, the false prophet, "the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan" at the marriage supper of the Lamb. Then, using that "key of identification" we can "distinguish" each one from another. If we do so with precision, we can "go back" into Revelation 13 and apply that "key". Kind of like "cracking a code" using a "key".

Therefore, if anyone sees things differently than I state them here ~~ please raise the objection quickly for mutual review and consideration.

1. These two human beings, the 666 beast and the false prophet, are separate beings from "the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan". This distinguishes that the 666 beast and the false prophet are human beings, whileas the Devil and Satan are wholly spiritual beings as fallen angels of the dragon, that old serpent.
a. The 666 beast and the false prophet are cast alive into the lake of fire.
b. The remnant of those who worshiped the beast (human beings) are slain with the sword that comes out of the mouth of Jesus. The fowls of the air feed upon their flesh.
c. It does not appear that the fowls of the air feed upon the flesh of the 666 beast and false prophet - they have been thrown alive into the lake of fire and not "died" in the normal manner of men.
d. The angel in Revelation 20 comes down and wraps a chain around the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan.

It appear that there are 3 different "groups" and different "identities". "Normal human beings" who are followers of the beast are killed and their bodies decay on earth. The 666 beast and the false prophet are cast alive into the lake of fire. The "dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan", is bound and sealed by an angel in the abyss for a 1000 years.

When the scripture says, "the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan" I am going to take this to mean not only the personal Satan -- but also all demons with him are bound and cast into the abyss. It's not as if there is no personal Satan on earth but demons are roaming the earth for the 1000 years. All the satanic/demonic forces of Satan are sealed with Satan in the abyss for the 1000 years. So most likely when the scripture says, "the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan" it means Satan and all demons (or devils).

Revelation 19: 11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Revelation 20

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

[justsurfing]

In Isaiah 14 we are seeing what happens "after" the marriage supper of the Lamb. (I'll quote "parts of it" to begin "expanding the key" which can then be used to "crack the code" of Book of Revelation scripture -- line upon line and precept upon precept.)

God has mercy on Jacob. The whole earth is at rest. The 1000 year reign of Christ has commenced on earth. The king of Babylon (Satan) has been removed from the earth. (This happened when the angel came down in Revelation 20 to bind the dragon, that old serpent, the Devil and Satan with a chain and sealed him in the abyss for the 1000 years.)

1For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
2And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
3And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
4That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
5The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
7The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.


Now we see what is happening in hell after the 1000 years. Those who are in hell remark that Satan has come to join them and appears to be weak as a man like them. The scripture is very clear that this "king of Babylon" is Lucifer who has become like a man. Lucifer is plunging into hell as the result of what the angel in Revelation 20 has done to bind him. Remarkably, we see that not only do those in hell testify that he is like a man ~~ we see also physical evidence of a physical flesh body rather than a spiritual body: worms are spread under Lucifer and worms cover him. Lucifer, has become bound in human flesh from this testimony of scripture.

9Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Here it appears that Satan is in the flesh of a man, but did not have "burial". Satan is known as the "king of Babylon". Kings of earth were buried in great tombs. However, God does not allow Satan any form of burial on earth. He is as the carcase of a dead man -- but a man who has no grave for his body on earth.

i8All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

 

[justsurfing]

In Isaiah 14:1-27, we are seeing what happens "after" the marriage supper of the Lamb. (I'll quote "parts of it" to begin "expanding the key" which can then be used to "crack the code" of Book of Revelation scripture -- line upon line and precept upon precept.)

God has mercy on Jacob. The whole earth is at rest. The 1000 year reign of Christ has commenced on earth. The king of Babylon (Satan) has been removed from the earth. (This happened when the angel came down in Revelation 20 to bind the dragon, that old serpent, the Devil and Satan with a chain and sealed him in the abyss for the 1000 years.)

1For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
2And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
3And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
4That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
5The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
7The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

Now we see what is happening in hell after the 1000 years. Those who are in hell remark that Satan has come to join them and appears to be weak as a man like them. The scripture is very clear that this "king of Babylon" is Lucifer who has become like a man. Lucifer is plunging into hell as the result of what the angel in Revelation 20 has done to bind him. Remarkably, we see that not only do those in hell testify that he is like a man ~~ we see also physical evidence of a physical flesh body rather than a spiritual body: worms are spread under Lucifer and worms cover him. Lucifer, has become bound in human flesh from this testimony of scripture.

9Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Here it appears that Satan is in the flesh of a man, but did not have "burial". Satan is known as the "king of Babylon". Kings of earth were buried in great tombs. However, God does not allow Satan any form of burial on earth. He is as the carcase of a dead man -- but a man who has no grave for his body on earth.

i8All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

To continue this thought, we will "go back" to Revelation 19 and 20. How is it that Satan has "miraculously" become like a man, is in human flesh appearing given that worms are covering him, since Satan since his own fall from grace as Lucifer was in a spiritual body rather than a human body of flesh??

Something has changed. The bodily "state of being" of Satan changed when he was bound by the angel and cast into the abyss for the 1000 years. Prior to this, Satan was a spiritual being with a supernatural spiritual body of a fallen angel -- not of flesh. But now, Satan has taken on flesh that people in hell notice saying he's become like them -- like a man. Plus, worms are beneath him and covering his body. God notes that physical death has covered Satan in the flesh of a man -- yet Satan is not allowed burial like other kings of the earth were allowed burial for their bodies. Satan's "body" has been "rejected" from the earth.

Where did this "flesh body" come from?? It was not the body of Satan for all of Satan's history up to the marriage supper of the Lamb as I see the scripture.

Let us review again:

Revelation 19:20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

For the first time in history, two human beings (believing they are human beings) -- the false prophet and the beast -- are cast alive into the lake of fire. Their flesh, therefore, receives no "burial" on earth. Something of a previously unprecedented spiritual dimension has occurred. Two people have been cast alive into the lake of fire.

We have the testimony of Isaiah 14 that flesh has "somehow" come upon Satan and the demons. (What happens to Satan happens to demons whether those demons are "in Satan" spiritually in one body -- or those demons are in the body of the false prophet separate from the body that Satan has "taken on".)

I believe, personally, that the Holy Spirit has quickened the scripture to me to show me that Satan has been "bound in" the flesh of the 666 beast which "came off of him" when he was cast alive into the lake of fire... and was thus "transferred" onto Satan to bind Satan in human flesh.

This is, of course, unprecedented. Yet, it is unprecedented that two persons should be cast alive into the lake of fire ~~ not allowing their souls to be separated from their bodies in death. This empowered, I believe, the angel of Revelation 20 to bind Satan in the flesh of the 666 beast. This "brings Satan down" to the level of a mortal man physically with worms that cannot die covering him as Satan descends into the lowest depths of hell. Satan will remain in that state and condition for a 1000 years as Isaiah 14 testifies.

Now, we must take note that Satan is loosed from the abyss 1000 years later. He emerges having been covered in the rotting worm-covered flesh of the 666 beast for the 1000 years. The 666 beast remains in the lake of fire during the time after the 1000 years that Satan is emergent upon the earth. Therefore, I state that Satan has been resurrected in the body of the 666 beast to emerge to deceive the world to gather all the damned to Final Armageddon (excepting the beast and false prophet who remain burning in the lake.)

Revelation 20:7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

This is why I say that I see after the end of the 1000 years, the "2nd beast" appears to be Satan in the body of the 666 beast. The body of the 666 beast was resurrected with Satan in the body personally. (The original 666 beast is not personally in the body but rather his soul remains burning in the lake of fire during that time of Satan gathering the damned to battle for Final Armageddon.)

Therefore, as we "go back" to Revelation 13, taking this "key" ~~ now we can see if we can use this "key" to "decode and unlock" the meaning of scripture.

At a certain level, the first 666 beast had a "deadly wound that was healed" ~~ for the 2nd beast is Satan resurrected in the body of the first 666 beast - and has thus, in a manner of speaking, "risen from the dead".

 

[justsurfing]

I'm trying to see from the view that Satan comes down in the body of a fallen angel in the first 7 years, in addition to coming himself at Final Armageddon in a human body.

The first 666 beast would continue through the 7 years and would be the beast that is worshipped.
In the first 7 years, the wound to the head of the first beast is most likely "allegorical". The "head" is a "nation" and also represents the "headship" of the 666 beast over a nation. The first 666 beast rises as POTUS and is Barry Soteoro (aka Barack Hussein Obama). The USA is destroyed in the fire of Revelation 18. Christians are protected, transferred, translated, perhaps even "transfigured" into the "land" of Revelation 12. Therefore, the destruction of the USA is a "fatal wound to the headship" of the 666 beast over the nation (head) of the USA.

It is not until after the marriage supper of the Lamb, after the 1000 year reign of Christ that the 666 beast "rises from the dead" physically with Satan in his body while the 666 beast's soul is in the lake of fire. So, I am "trying to see" how it is that Satan could be cast down at the midpoint of the apocalypse to become the "2nd beast" in the first 7 year period. Satan would have to be in the body of a fallen angel at that point. If so, this would not "negate" the first beast continuing and being worshipped during the latter half of the 7 year Great Tribulation period. This would not "negate" Barack Hussein Obama from being the first beast who continues during the whole of the 7 year period.

I'll have to consider this further.

(I was told that Sotero (aka BHO) the 666 beast was nothing and all that mattered was Satan coming down as a fallen angel for the latter half of the 7 year period. I reject that. Perhaps it is possible that Satan really does come down as a fallen angel alongside the first beast as the second beast in the latter half of the 7 year period. I'll consider it personally. I'll have to reread the scripture from OT through NT in the larger view to see if it "fits". I'm not certain why, in the 7 year period, the 2nd beast wouldn't be the false prophet who is cast into the lake of fire with the 666 beast.)

 

[anthony55]

lamb:

The Jews already know God I would think

I don't know why you would think that. Jesus told many of them that they did not know God.

Jn 8:28

Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

Jesus was speaking to jews in this context i.e

jn 8:

37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

So do you believe that just because a person is a ethnic jew they know God ? If you do, thats weird to me.

 

[justsurfing]

lamb:

I don't know why you would think that. Jesus told many of them that they did not know God.

Jn 8:28Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

Jesus was speaking to jews in this context i.e

jn 8:37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

So do you believe that just because a person is a ethnic jew they know God ? If you do, thats weird to me.

It's also weird to me how Christians, who are born again spiritually and are so much better in spiritual state than anyone of the first covenant -- having been partakers of a better covenant with better promises and literally having been born-again as the spiritual sons of God ~~ think that Jews are "better than them" almost in pagan worship of Jews. Seems pagan. Almost as if Satan has used Jews, by twisting the Word, to deceive Christians into denying who they are in Christ.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

You accuse of me of blasphemy, but it is you who is in rebellion against God raging with the rage of Satan against the Sovereign good pleasure of God to do as He wills with His creation.

Perhaps I will have to reconsider your premise that men are sired of the devil -at least in one case. Maybe you know more about that than I, by experience with that spirit.
-But as for me and my house, we are of Adam, and born of Christ.
Sorry about your house. It must be miserable to think you are satan's seed; but do not try to put that blasphemy on me or others who are born of Adam and who have been born of the Living Spirit, nor try to throw our babies, who die, into the the lake of fire by your monstrous doctrines of the damned, which babies My LORD calls His, and who are covered by His Atonement and who will never die eternally for Adam's death if they pass from the body before the age of accountability.

 

[Super Kal]

It's also weird to me how Christians, who are born again spiritually and are so much better in spiritual state than anyone of the first covenant -- having been partakers of a better covenant with better promises and literally having been born-again as the spiritual sons of God ~~ think that Jews are "better than them" almost in pagan worship of Jews. Seems pagan. Almost as if Satan has used Jews, by twisting the Word, to deceive Christians into denying who they are in Christ.

the theology that resorts to this kind of thinking and teaching is called "Dispensationalism"

 

[zeke37]

I've factually proven my assertions. You've refused to evaluate facts. Instead you declare programming by the MSM (controlled media) to be the only source you receive, apparently. You refuse to believe free information. You seem to be a person who accepts propaganda sources (MSM & Obama Campaign HQ) as "truth" and refuses to examine source material. The source material is factual. The MSM is biased. Our perhaps you've not heard of the Journolist effort to direct people's opinions by mitigating truth?? You are believing propaganda, and programmed to discount valid sources in order to believe propaganda.

After JournoList Exposé, No One Better Ever Deny Liberal Media Bias Again


By Brent Bozell (Bio | Archive)
Thu, 07/22/2010 - 12:18 ET
Managing Editor's Note: NewsBusters Publisher Brent Bozell today reprimanded members of the press in light of the recently exposed e-mails from the now-defunct JournoList that show a blatant, deliberate campaign to smear conservatives. That statement is published below. Click here for more background on JournoList.
The revelation of these e-mails simply proves that we have been right all along. The liberal media have no interest in being fair or unbiased. In fact, they are deliberately violating any sense of journalistic ethics.
There is no excuse – none- for the attitudes and lack of professionalism these so-called journalists displayed not only in these e-mails but in their reporting. Any member of the media that was privy to these Journolist emails, and remained silent, is just as much to blame as the folks that crafted these e-mails. Their silence indicts them.
We said in 2008 that the media were making excuses for Jeremiah Wright and now we have the proof. Just today we learned from the Daily Caller that these people went so far as to say that Rush Limbaugh ‘deserves’ their hate. Sadly, I am not surprised, as this is what we have been exposing year after year about the media. And it’s exactly why Americans refuse to trust them.



Read more: After JournoList Exposé, No One Better Ever Deny Liberal Media Bias Again | NewsBusters.org

The Smoking Gun For Media Bias

Posted 07/21/2010 06:52 PM ET

Journo-Gate: For decades, moderates and conservatives have been derided and ridiculed for complaining about the mainstream media's pervasive liberal bias. As it turns out, however, their worst fears were true.
If you don't know about Journolist, you should. It's a semi-secret listserv maintained by Washington Post columnist Ezra Klein. Don't bother to try to log on. If they want you, they'll ask you to take part. No outsiders need apply.
And who uses it? Almost exclusively liberal journalists and left-leaning movers and shakers. Sound innocuous? It isn't.
Journolist has become a forum for lefty journalists to talk about how to push their progressive agenda on America, protect President Obama and hurt his foes. It is a safe-space for the often-vile expression of hatred toward conservatives and their ideas.
It all came to light a few weeks ago when news broke that then-Washington Post writer David Weigel, hired to cover the conservative movement for the Post, had made disparaging comments about those he covered on Journolist.
Weigel's remarks were bad enough. But in the ensuing weeks, other comments emerged that made it clear his comments weren't atypical. Not only do the liberal journalists despise conservatives and their non-progressive vision for America, but they actively colluded — one might say plotted — to undercut them.
This isn't journalism. It's political activism.
What's disappointing is not just the lie that journalists put forth about being "objective." That's long since been proved false by survey after survey showing that members of the media are not only overwhelmingly Democratic in their political orientation but also far to the left of average Americans on virtually every major social and economic issue, from tax cuts to abortion.
No, the biggest disappointment is the nastiness they appear to harbor toward right-leaning journalist colleagues.
During the 2008 debate over the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, President Obama's personal pastor who repeatedly expressed his contempt for America in shockingly racist terms, some on Journolist suggested ways to squelch coverage. As Spencer Ackerman of the inaptly named Washington Independent suggested, "What is necessary is to raise the cost on the right of going after the left. ... Take one of them — Fred Barnes, Karl Rove, who cares — and call them racists."


When McCain picked Palin, liberal journalists coordinated the best line of attack By Jonathan Strong - The Daily Caller 3:09 AM 07/22/2010

In the hours after Sen. John McCain announced his choice of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to be his running mate in the last presidential race, members of an online forum called Journolist struggled to make sense of the pick. Many of them were liberal reporters, and in some cases their comments reflected a journalist’s instinct to figure out the meaning of a story.
But in many other exchanges, the Journolisters clearly had another, more partisan goal in mind: to formulate the most effective talking points in order to defeat Palin and McCain and help elect Barack Obama president. The tone was more campaign headquarters than newsroom.
The conversation began with a debate over how best to attack Sarah Palin. “Honestly, this pick reeks of desperation,” wrote Michael Cohen of the New America Foundation in the minutes after the news became public. “How can anyone logically argue that Sarah Pallin [sic], a one-term governor of Alaska, is qualified to be President of the United States? Train wreck, thy name is Sarah Pallin.”
Not a wise argument, responded Jonathan Stein, a reporter for Mother Jones. If McCain were asked about Palin’s inexperience, he could simply point to then candidate Barack Obama’s similarly thin resume. “Q: Sen. McCain, given Gov. Palin’s paltry experience, how is she qualified to be commander in chief?,” Stein asked hypothetically. “A: Well, she has much experience as the Democratic nominee.”
“What a joke,” added Jeffrey Toobin of the New Yorker. “I always thought that some part of McCain doesn’t want to be president, and this choice proves my point. Welcome back, Admiral Stockdale.”
Daniel Levy of the Century Foundation noted that Obama’s “non-official campaign” would need to work hard to discredit Palin. “This seems to me like an occasion when the non-official campaign has a big role to play in defining Palin, shaping the terms of the conversation and saying things that the official [Obama] campaign shouldn’t say – very hard-hitting stuff, including some of the things that people have been noting here – scare people about having this woefully inexperienced, no foreign policy/national security/right-wing christia wing-nut a heartbeat away …… bang away at McCain’s age making this unusually significant …. I think people should be replicating some of the not-so-pleasant viral email campaigns that were used against [Obama].”
Ryan Donmoyer, a reporter for Bloomberg News who was covering the campaign, sent a quick thought that Palin’s choice not to have an abortion when she unexpectedly became pregnant at age 44 would likely boost her image because it was a heartwarming story.
“Her decision to keep the Down’s baby is going to be a hugely emotional story that appeals to a vast swath of America, I think,” Donmoyer wrote.
Politico reporter Ben Adler, now an editor at Newsweek, replied, “but doesn’t leaving sad baby without its mother while she campaigns weaken that family values argument? Or will everyone be too afraid to make that point?”
Blogger Matt Yglesias sent out a new post thread with the subject, “The line on Palin.”
“John McCain picked someone to help him politically, Barack Obama picked someone to help him govern,” Yglesias wrote.
Ed Kilgore, managing editor of the Democratic Strategist blog, argued that journalists and others trying to help the Obama campaign should focus on Palin’s beliefs. “The criticism of her really, really needs to be ideological, not just about experience. If we concede she’s a ‘maverick,’ we will have done John McCain an enormous service. And let’s don’t concede the claim that [Hillary Clinton] supporters are likely to be very attracted to her,” Kilgore said.
Amidst this debate over how most effectively to destroy Palin’s reputation, reporter Avi Zenilman, who was then writing about the campaign for Politico, chimed in to note that Palin had “openly backed” parts of Obama’s energy plan. In an interview Wednesday, Zenilman said he sent the information as a means of promoting a story he had written for Politico.
Chris Hayes of the Nation wrote in with words of encouragement, and to ask for more talking points. “Keep the ideas coming! Have to go on TV to talk about this in a few min and need all the help I can get,” Hayes wrote.
Suzanne Nossel, chief of operations for Human Rights Watch, added a novel take: “I think it is and can be spun as a profoundly sexist pick. Women should feel umbrage at the idea that their votes can be attracted just by putting a woman, any woman, on the ticket no matter her qualifications or views.”
Mother Jones’s Stein loved the idea. “That’s excellent! If enough people – people on this list? – write that the pick is sexist, you’ll have the networks debating it for days. And that negates the SINGLE thing Palin brings to the ticket,” he wrote.
Another writer from Mother Jones, Nick Baumann, had this idea: “Say it with me: ‘Classic GOP Tokenism’.”
Kilgore wasn’t sold: “I STRONGLY think the immediate task is to challenge the ‘maverick’ bull[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] about Palin, which everybody on the tube is echoing. I’ll say it one more time: Palin is a hard-core conservative ideologue in every measurable way.”
Zenilman of Politico, a purportedly nonpartisan journalist, weighed in with tactical advice: “The experience attack is a stupid one. It’s absolutely the wrong tack — the tack that McCain took when he was losing, and that Hillary and Biden took all primaries.” Zenilman said Wednesday he was offering “typical offhand political analysis.”
Joe Klein of Time stopped by with an update on the latest from his magazine: “We’re reporting that she actually supported the bridge to nowhere. First flub?”
Klein, who displayed an independent streak in other circumstances (“anybody who knows me knows I do my own thinking,” he said in a Wednesday interview), seemed to exude more partisanship that day than usual.
As the morning wore on into the afternoon, some on Journolist came to believe the Palin pick had been shrewd. Palin was coming off as appealing and a maverick, they worried.
“Okay, let’s get deadly serious, folks. Grating voice or not, ‘inexperienced’ or not, Sarah Palin’s just been introduced to the country as a brave, above-party, oil-company-bashing, pork-hating maverick ‘outsider’,” Kilgore said, “What we can do is to expose her ideology.”
........
Time’s Joe Klein then linked to his own piece, parts of which he acknowledged came from strategy sessions on Journolist. “Here’s my attempt to incorporate the accumulated wisdom of this august list-serve community,” he wrote. And indeed Klein’s article contained arguments developed by his fellow Journolisters. Klein praised Palin personally, calling her “fresh” and “delightful,” but questioned her “militant” ideology. He noted Palin had endorsed parts of Obama’s energy proposal.
That was all on the day of the announcement.

I will no longer, further entertain you, about a man, obama or any other, as being the end time son of Perdition

sorry...Satan is

God has already defined exactly who he is going to be,
and it is not a man of flesh and blood

but rather an angelic supernatural being
that will fool the world with his lies and miracles and peace
and he will look like a lamb (hint hint)

we can discuss why I think it is Satan,
or why you think it is a man...(general)
but no specific persons mentioned, or I am done!

we are warned not to do that in the Bible



I pray you find truth in your search!

 

[zeke37]

Your theory that Satan himself is the antichrist of the 7 year period is far outside biblical thought and opinion.

hi
not according to Rev12 and 13...it fits like a well fitted glove

To fail to believe that a human being will rise as a world leader during the 7 year period is a colossal error.

the first half is political and led by kings of the earth,
and then at the mid point, Satan arrives, saved the broken system,
and turns that system religous...

Satan himself is cast out of heaven, defacto...by force
and here to earth...woe to us here on earth then....


Satan is coming disguised as an angel of light

to fail to see this, means one is in for a bumpy ride in the trib

What "arrives" at the midpoint of the apocalypse is the full blasphemy of the reprobate. They are thus completely hardened in their hearts, in a state of entire blasphemy against God, the "great falling away" has produced the fruit of the world system having become, spiritually on the inside through blasphemy of the Holy Spirit en masse, the body politic of the kingdom of Satan as Satan incarnate through full spiritual possession by Satan.

NOPE...Satan himself cast out of heaven and to the earth

Luke 22:3 (King James Version)

3Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.


Satan entering the world system by full possession by Satan in full blasphemy of the Spirit by the reprobate world system en masse as the Christians of Revelation 12 arise in the full measure of the full stature of Jesus Christ in entire sanctification in the Holy Spirit are the "correlating events" of Satan being cast to earth.

To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction in the spirit realm.

Satan was ordered back behind Christ, by Christ

from that point on, it is about possession, as with Peter and Judas
and not his physical form being here...
but he has a physical form...and it is prophesied to come here again

at the mid point of the trib,
Satan is cast out of heaven and to the earth for a short season (silence in heaven for 1/2 hour)
he is once again here on earth in his own supernatural angelic body
woe to us...he'll fool almost the entire world
and seduce many Christians out of their Wedding feast

Isaiah 59:19 (King James Version)


19So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.


I do not agree that the time of Satan being cast to earth, at the midpoint of the apocalypse, is the time of silence in Heaven. Rather, there are things spoken in a loud voice. You're saying the opposite of the testimony of scripture to say there will be silence:

Revelation 12: 7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

the silence in heaven for 1/2 hour in Rev8 must be about the final hour....1/2 of it...

linked to Satan accusations against the bretheren,
as stated in Rev12

he is NOT in heaven anymore accusing us...
because he is cast here to earth,
and not allowed to go to heaven anymore

1And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.


10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


who is the dragon?
isn't that old serpend, the devil and the dragon..all the same entity?
Satan right?
ya I thot so!


9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,


so, as I read it, Satan is in heaven accusing us before God, day and night
Satan will be cast out of heaven and to the earth
That means that there will no longer be the accusations against us in heaven...

Satan will have been silenced in heaven

but woe to us on earth, cause he himself is coming here,
and does he have wrath...oh boy!

As stated above, Satan's "rule" during the last 3-1/2 years is through full spiritual possession of the 666 beast and the reprobate world system which has blasphemed the Holy Spirit completely in the great falling away manifested at the abomination of desolation.

fiction

You are trying to make spiritual possession of the reprobate blasphemers equate to a "physical rule" by Satan.

i'm simply repeating scripture,
which states that Satan is going to be cast out of heaven
and to the earth for a short season

if he was possessing folks, he'd still be in heaven doing it..
but we know he gets the boot...so no possession
he's here himself in his own angelic body

Rather, the first 666 beast antichrist is the same figure throughout the 7 year period.

He rises to political power during the first 3-1/2 years of the 7 year apocalypse, commits the abomination of desolation at the midpoint of the apocalypse, then rules for the latter half of the 3-1/2 year period.

there is no "he" in the first half, only kings of the earth

They will be fully spiritually possessed by Satan entering them. They will blaspheme the Holy Spirit resulting in full internal possession by Satan equaling them individually and as a corporate body becoming "Satan incarnate" ~~ in spiritual possession by Satan.

fiction...
but the bible stating that Satan is coming here himself is not fiction,
that is scripture Bro!

The error here, as I see it, is in failure to see that the 2nd beast is Satan personified coming after the 1000 year reign.

are you saying that Rev13 is over 1000 years long?
that is truly a unique position...
but I completely disagree of course

You are correct to see that Satan is the 2nd beast coming physically personally. However, the same 666 antichrist figure (the first beast) throughout the initial 7 year apocalyptic period "confirming the covenant with the many" then committing the abomination of desolation at the midpoint, and ruling for the latter 3-1/2 years.

the whole point of the divide in Rev13 (mentioning of the second beast)
is for that mid point of the trib...

divided in half....the political beast receives a deadly wound
and that wound is healed by guess who's arrival...

Rev13 is not covering the Millennium too! only the trib

I'll come back, expand upon the OT/NT scripture to build a more full scriptural case. That will give you an opportunity to see you are right that Satan comes personally as the 2nd beast. However, he does not come as the second beast during the 7 year apocalyptic period. He comes from the abyss after the 1000 years have expired as the 2nd beast personally and individually in the body of the 666 beast as the 666 beast remains burning in the lake of fire in his soul. (Satan actually "takes on the body of the 666 beast" right at the marriage supper of the Lamb.

fiction

 

[zeke37]

It is "difficult" to see in scripture because it is very spiritual, it's about possession and control and prison and punishment for Satan during the 1000 years. It's just "difficult" to see on one's own, I think, to gain the initial revelation of the Word on it. I've never heard anyone say what the Spirit showed me. But I think that once I lay out the scripture, then it's easier for other Christians to see. God showed me because there is special enmity between myself and Satan, perhaps. That's what I like to think... because I so passionately desired to see the punishment of Satan and his demise.... that I think I 'pressed through" to the revelation. That's how I understand how I could see this, at least.) Anyway, as I "unfold" or "layout" the scriptures -- I will be interested to see what the Lord reveals to you.

The Lord has been working on me for 5 years now with Revelation...
I have a foundation that is in Rock....

any attempt to circomnavigate this foundation, will be disregarded as error

You may be "ahead of the curve" in seeing Satan coming personally as the 2nd beast. But with all due respect, it is your timing that is incorrect. He comes as the second beast after the 1000 years when he is loosed from the abyss. This error in timing of fulfillment of the second beast is leading you, as I see it, to false conclusions related to the 7 year apocalypse.

well, I'd say pretty much the same thing about your belief...
you are ahead of the curve to see Satan come physically as the second beast,
but your timing is off, as the second beast is in the latter 1/2 of the trib, not the Millennium's end

this is how he can fool so many Christians....looks like a lamb
(The Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world)
and the son of Perdition has supernatural abilities that can do presumed miracles...
and a flood of lies from his mouth

Therefore, I think it most beneficial to come back with that scriptural case. It may "untie the knot" whereby we are "stuck" not seeing the same things in the same order right now.

if ya really feel the need to, go for it...
I am not opposed to learning and changing opinion,
edification is very important
but the scripture proof has to be there...

right now, I don't see your position as being scriptural...
but rather speculative

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*
The Lord has been working on me for 5 years now with Revelation...
I have a foundation that is in Rock....

any attempt to circomnavigate this foundation, will be disregarded as error

It has been almost 8 yrs for me and the LORD is still working on me with it

http://www.christianforums.com/t7397815/
Should Revelations be studied?

 

[the.Sheepdog]

I was saved in the 80's and I don't presume to be an expert on anything! Beware anyone who does.

 

[justsurfing]

I was saved in the 80's and I don't presume to be an expert on anything! Beware anyone who does.

Sheepdog, Blessings. I was saved at age 3. I am 46 today. If I believed ignorance was bliss, I wouldn't have spent my life in Bible study and prayer as we are called by God in salvation. To think that one would not gain wisdom through prayer and Bible study ~~ I cannot agree. The call of God is to become an expert, I believe, and the call goes forth to all Christians.

1 Corinthians 3:10 (King James Version)


10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

To follow the holy spirit and KNOW the bible is very different than being an expert dearest. When I think "expert" I think of those Pharisee's who taunted Jesus with the law asking about the woman who marries again after her husband dies.

Certainly they were expert at the scriptures but still appeared to know nothing and in fact earned eternal hell for themselves for blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

I read a lot of folks here who appear proud of their knowledge but miss the point entirely. " I say this" or "I say that" A lot of folks here have "I" problems!

Are they all born again? Judging from what they say in anger sometimes I would seriously be concerned for them. Eschatology has the primary purpose of drawing the unsaved to salvation!

One can argue the "logic" of single words or phrases until Rapture day and still be standing on the ground when everyone else is gone. And THAT would be tragic.

 

[NumberOneSon]

I read a lot of folks here who appear proud of their knowledge but miss the point entirely. " I say this" or "I say that" A lot of folks here have "I" problems!

 

[justsurfing]

the first half is political and led by kings of the earth,
and then at the mid point, Satan arrives, saved the broken system,
and turns that system religous...

I "ruled out" and "threw out" your suggestion that the political beast who rises to initiate the 7 year apocalypse is of no consequence. The first beast is the beast who confirms the covenant with the many. He does so as a political leader. At the mid-point of the apocalypse, he commits the abomination of desolation and continues through to the consummation -- until the wrath of God determined upon him is poured upon the desolate (the 666 beast system). Daniel 9:27 (King James Version)


27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The first beast absolutely does continue through the entire 7 year period and is worshipped as God during the latter 3-1/2 year tribulation. Based on Daniel 9:27 and the statement that the same beast who initiates the 7 year period is "the one" who commits the abomination of desolation, this first beast is that political leader. (I say is Barack Hussein Obama (aka Barry Sotero) on evidence I presented in the OP links and should be "watched" for the next two years to see how things progress):

Revelation 13

1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Satan himself is cast out of heaven, defacto...by force
and here to earth...woe to us here on earth then....


Satan is coming disguised as an angel of light

to fail to see this, means one is in for a bumpy ride in the trib

As far as a "bumpy ride" during the trib ~~ this whole thread is about what happens in the land of Revelation 18 at the midpoint of the apocalypse. How God's people are called out and protected, fire burns an entire land, and the saints rise in kingdom power and authority on earth.

I do not accept your premise that the political world leader who rises to "confirm the covenant with the many" to initiate the 7 year period "disappears" at the midpoint of the apocalypse... per above.

However, I had not previously considered the scriptural view that Satan being cast to earth comes in an angelic body to "be" the second beast. I am not certain if this is "ruled out" by scripture or not.

Who is the second beast?? Is he the "false prophet"?? Because the first beast and false prophet of the 7 year period are cast alive into the lake of fire. They remain in the lake of fire when Satan is released from the abyss. Also, in Judgment, Satan is cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are. So, if the "second beast" in the first 7 years is the false prophet ~~ that beast is not Satan.

Revelation 20: 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


I had always believed that the 2nd beast was the false prophet in the first 7 year period. If so, that 2nd beast is NOT Satan personified. However, if the 2nd beast is not the false prophet, then I will examine whether he could be Satan come in the body of a fallen angel.

NOPE...Satan himself cast out of heaven and to the earth

Satan is cast to earth in scripture as the authority of the church rises in the anointing of Jesus Christ:

Luke 10:17-19 (King James Version)


17And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

The disciples taking authority over Satan denotes the church having power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all power of the enemy. The disciples arising in Kingdom power and authority (as is stated to occur in Revelation 12 regarding the saints who I say are those who came out of Revelation 18), creates this dynamic of Satan being cast down.

Satan didn't come around when Jesus was ministering and appear before people to rule the world then. So, therefore, I'm not sure why people would think that Satan being cast down from Heaven in great authority of the church as the church arises in that power of the Spirit of Revelation 12 means that Satan is appearing in an angelic body to rule the world personally.

The scripture is clear that the entire world will be possessed by Satan in blasphemy of the Spirit. This is more likely to be the progression of satanic manifestation on earth during this time, through possession of the reprobate who have now blasphemed the Spirit.

You have not proven, to me, that Satan has appeared in a bodily form. The scripture is to interpret scripture. The scripture I just provided makes it more likely that Satan being cast to earth is evidence of the power of the church in Revelation 12 rising spiritually in Kingdom power and authority over Satan rather than Satan manifesting bodily on earth.

 

[justsurfing]

Satan was ordered back behind Christ, by Christ

from that point on, it is about possession, as with Peter and Judas
and not his physical form being here...
but he has a physical form...and it is prophesied to come here again

Yes, it does appear to me that Satan appears in a physical form after the 1000 years -- taking the body of the 666 beast to do so. If you have scripture to better prove that this occurs during the latter 3-1/2 year period of the 7 year period rather than at Final Armageddon after the 1000 years, I am open to see it.

at the mid point of the trib,
Satan is cast out of heaven and to the earth for a short season (silence in heaven for 1/2 hour)
he is once again here on earth in his own supernatural angelic body
woe to us...he'll fool almost the entire world
and seduce many Christians out of their Wedding feast

It is not accurate to say this is the time of silence or the end. Life goes on on earth for 3-1/2 years more, then the marriage supper of the Lamb where the whole beast system is annihilated, then the 1000 year reign of Christ, then Satan is released for a little time, then Final Armageddon occurs.

This is when the silence for 1/2 an hour is most likely to occur:

Zechariah 12:9-11 (King James Version)


9And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

This seems most likely, I'm not taking a 100% position, the time of God giving all Israel it's "time to repent and believe". A half hour of silence seems appropriate as all Israel mourns for an half an hour Jesus who they see appear in the first Heaven. (This occurs at Final Armageddon).

However, that 1/2 hour time assuredly does not occur during the 7 year period of the apocalypse in my opinion.

I will not completely "rule out" that Satan comes to be the 2nd beast, but what other scripture do you have to support this?? And then who is the false prophet during the 7 year period since the second beast appears to be "the false prophet" who scripturally cannot be Satan?? Two beasts and one false prophet?? During the 7 year period?? I've not heard that before you started talking about Satan coming to earth in a physical body.

Again, the scripture said Satan was cast like lightning from the skies when the disciples of Jesus ministered in power. This statement of Satan being cast to earth does not necessarily mean he is manifesting in a supernatural body -- because that wasn't the case when the same description of events occurred during the ministry of Jesus Christ.

the silence in heaven for 1/2 hour in Rev8 must be about the final hour....1/2 of it...

linked to Satan accusations against the bretheren,
as stated in Rev12

No, I cannot see God having a "moment of silence" for Satan. Plus the scripture declares that the angel shouts in a loud voice in Revelation 12 as this occurs and says, "NOW" while so stating. There was no "reverence" in silence for the moment. The angel says "Now" and speaks in a loud voice when that happens.

However, for the time of the mourning of all Israel as they look upon Jesus whom they pierced, that seems appropriate for a 1/2 hour of silence, plus, it's truly at the end. (However, I will not fully state that "must be" the answer. Rather, it's definitely not when Satan is cast down and might, instead, be that time in my view.)

he is NOT in heaven anymore accusing us...
because he is cast here to earth,
and not allowed to go to heaven anymore

1And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

The 7th seal is not opened during the 7 year apocalypse. The 7th seal is opened at the very end after the 1000 year reign of Christ at Final Armageddon. It makes much more sense that the 7th seal is opened, Jesus appears in the first Heaven, all Israel beholds Him and is given 1/2 hour of time to mourn before they are thus spiritually converted and then the 7th trumpet sounds and Jesus descends with a SHOUT!

who is the dragon?
isn't that old serpend, the devil and the dragon..all the same entity?
Satan right?
ya I thot so!

The demons are devils and jointly combine in one to be Satan and the Devil. They have the same spirit of blasphemy. It's a spiritual thing. The demons aren't "excluded" from being cast into the abyss with Satan... or cast out with Satan. When Satan is cast down from Heaven, being the greatest power of devil, all the other devils are cost down with him and in him spiritually. So, no, it's not that "simple" that demons are nowhere "in the mix" of the term "serpent, devil, dragon, Satan" -- they are all the same common spirit and thus spiritual entity -- yet they have individuality too, Lucifer become Satan as the "spiritual father" and "head".

so, as I read it, Satan is in heaven accusing us before God, day and night
Satan will be cast out of heaven and to the earth
That means that there will no longer be the accusations against us in heaven...

Satan will have been silenced in heaven

Satan being silenced doesn't mean all Heaven is experiencing a moment of silence. As you see, Satan immediately goes to pursue the woman and acts. He may not be accusing from Heaven, but he moves immediately to attack the "woman" and turn to commit genocide against other Christians still on earth but not in the protected area. Satan's accusations are power that "keep us" from arising fully in Christ. The people in Revelation 12 arise in Kingdom power and authority knowing "who they are in Christ". They don't "buy" his accusations anymore. They take authority over him in the name of Jesus and Satan is cast down as even he felll like lightning during the time the disciples ministered in Jesus' name by the anointing of Jesus Christ. This doesn't mean "game off". The game continues -- it just doesn't go "Satan's way" towards this body of believers. He tries reaching them with a flood. (He's still railing -- but it's just lost any power to hold them under his power. They have arisen in the full measure of the stature of Christ -- they know who they are in Christ -- his words bounce off them like nothing -- and he cannot reach them to enter the land where they are -- and in a rage turns to go massmurder Christians in another area. Satan doesn't say "game off" -- and there's no "moment of silence" in the devil there. Furthermore, Satan still has power over the saints outside the protected area. Therefore, whether you can see it or not, from my view, Satan was ONLY cast down in relationship to the saints of Revelation 12 who arose in full spriituall authority over him and whom he lost power to harm. But he still has power to harm other Christians who have not arisen in the level anointing the saints of Revelation 12 have.)

I just don't see it the same way and the scripture of Luke 10 doesn't seem to agree.

but woe to us on earth, cause he himself is coming here,
and does he have wrath...oh boy!

Woe to those not in the protected area of Revelation 12 on earth.

i'm simply repeating scripture,
which states that Satan is going to be cast out of heaven
and to the earth for a short season

if he was possessing folks, he'd still be in heaven doing it..
but we know he gets the boot...so no possession
he's here himself in his own angelic body

No, in Luke 10 he was cast down. That denotes the spiritual authority of Christians rising against Satan in relation to THEM, as Satan is cast down in relation to THEM. In Luke 10, that doesn't mean Satan lost power all around the world in relation to other people with no power to possess other people ~~ and it doesn't mean he came down in an angelic body.

So, you think this proves your case -- but I don't think it does.

there is no "he" in the first half, only kings of the earth

Daniel 9:27 (King James Version)


27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
That's a "he" confirming the covenant -- one world political leader doing that action... one world political leader (him) then committing the abomination of desolation... one world leader (him) continuing until the consummation. This is the first beast.

fiction...
but the bible stating that Satan is coming here himself is not fiction,
that is scripture Bro!

Satan being cast down in the midpoint of the apocalypse when the saints of Revelation 12 arise in anointing ON EARTH is not fiction. It will happen. But, as stated, doesn't mean necessarily that's describing Satan coming in bodily form.

are you saying that Rev13 is over 1000 years long?
that is truly a unique position...
but I completely disagree of course

No, I'm saying that the same scripture is ALIVE and will "come alive" by the revelation of the Holy Spirit with application to the 7 year period... and to what will repeat when Satan is loosed from the abyss 1000 years later.

Of course, not an "exact repeat" ~~ however, the scripture reveals things about the first 7years and what happens in events preceding Final Armageddon also. Satan does not change. What Satan attempts to manifest during the Great Tribulation in the latter half of the 7 year period ending the first 6000 years of human history, Satan will by nature and drive seek to "do again" when released from the abyss after the 1000 years -- after 7,000 years of human history. But, the 7's end it all. So, God can use that same scripture, as the Spirit enlivens it, to reveal in the living power of the Word. (Human logic will fail -- but the Spirit can enliven -- then it can be seen.)

For example, I brought for the scripture which shows that Satan has worms covering his body while he is in the pit for the 1000 years and men say that he has become like them, etc., etc., etc. That came "alive" in my perception in shekinah glory that was not intellectual reason in my study of the scripture. So, for me, I "see that" about what will happen regarding that. It's my own personal conviction.

the whole point of the divide in Rev13 (mentioning of the second beast)
is for that mid point of the trib...

divided in half....the political beast receives a deadly wound
and that wound is healed by guess who's arrival...

Exactly. So, the first beast is present during the entire 7 year period. The political beast continues and is worshipped as God during the latter half period. (However the death is potentially a "wound to the head" meaning the destruction of the USA from which the beast arose as POTUS -- there by being a "deadly wound" to his "headship" as POTUS -- but nonetheless moving forward to be worshipped as God by the whole world of sinners and taking world leadership position over a one world government and one world religion and one world monetary system, etc.

Rev13 is not covering the Millennium too! only the trib

Wrong. Line upon line and precept upon precept. It is also true that after the 1000 years, Satan will be loosed for a little season. The first beast who was thrown alive into the lake of fire will continue burning in the lake of fire and will not be released. He was thrown in alive. Satan will emerge in the body of the 666 beast. I don't care if anyone else sees it, the Lord showed me in scripture in the OT and Book of Revelation. It's what I see.

So, in a "parallel" and repeat of what occurred in the 7 year period, Satan will appear to have "healed the body" of the first beast as he is resurrected in that body. (Which is also a punishment from God in reducing Satan to become like a man in physical flesh -- and a supreme INSULT to the former arch-angel, etc., etc.,)

The concept that Satan has come to earth at the midpoint of the 7 year period of the apocalypse in a supernatural body is still "on the table". I haven't ruled it out.

However, for you to MINIMIZE the 666 beast of Barack Hussein Obama rising by pointing to the second beast is a travesty. The person we should be watching right now is the first beast -- the political leader -- and I say he is Barack Hussein Obama. It is a travesty to attempt to direct attention away from him -- and satanic to attempt to "smooth over" his gross sins by saying he's a "fall guy"... or that the first beast could be a "fall guy" for Satan. He's to be condemned -- and it is not good that you so identify with man that the only person it seems you can call "evil" is the devil himself.

Men are sinners.

To attempt to make the 666 beast look like a "victim" is taking love of this world in love of sinners by the love of this world in "victimology" rather than man's personal responsibility for man's sin and wickedness to a whole new level.