The "Rapture" potentially VERY CLOSE!! ~~ A View of Scripture and Current Events.

[justsurfing]

To follow the holy spirit and KNOW the bible is very different than being an expert dearest. When I think "expert" I think of those Pharisee's who taunted Jesus with the law asking about the woman who marries again after her husband dies.

Certainly they were expert at the scriptures but still appeared to know nothing and in fact earned eternal hell for themselves for blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Good point.

I read a lot of folks here who appear proud of their knowledge but miss the point entirely. " I say this" or "I say that" A lot of folks here have "I" problems!

Yes, "I" think "we" "all" have "I" problems. Jesus saved me from "I"!! lol

Are they all born again? Judging from what they say in anger sometimes I would seriously be concerned for them. Eschatology has the primary purpose of drawing the unsaved to salvation!

From this scripture, the Book of Revelation was given for God to show His servants, the church, what must shortly come to pass. We're to read, hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the thing written therein in order to be blessed as believers. I think it is good to give a "wake up" call to unbelievers, also.
Revelation 1

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

One can argue the "logic" of single words or phrases until Rapture day and still be standing on the ground when everyone else is gone. And THAT would be tragic.

Good point! Perhaps "we", and "I", "all" need to be reminded of this (which is good to remember when we do not see scripture the same way, perhaps):

1 Corinthians 13:2 (King James Version)


2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

 

[Mess]

Sheepdog you have some good points bro, without the holy spirit in our hearts, all the knowlegde in the world would only make us educated fools.

 

[justsurfing]

The Lord has been working on me for 5 years now with Revelation...
I have a foundation that is in Rock....

any attempt to circomnavigate this foundation, will be disregarded as error

With all due respect, I burst out laughing. Not even laughing at you. Just laughing really as I immediately recalled something. I had diligently been studying the Word for 3 decades with much prayer ~~ to see one thing. Then, one day, a poster presented a "concept" I had never before heard. One of my most primary "beliefs" was challenged on the basis not of conjecture, but scripture. It shook me to my core. But, because I will always examine something even if it challenges something long held ~~ I could not refuse to examine his scriptural case.

Come to find out ~~ upon further examination ~~ I was.... wrong. "Who knew??"... that my KVJ didn't have a literal translation of time in it. That had lead to error based on "scripture" (really a wrong translation). At age 8 I had presented those scriptures to the Lord and said, "How can this be?? This doesn't seem to fit??" Still, I was trapped for over 2 decades longer in error due to a mistranslation of words related to time.

But if you are so progressed after 5 years, it's impossible for your core assumption to be wrong.... I can only laugh. Perhaps I am laughing at the suggestion based upon my own experience.

God bless.

 

[zeke37]

I "ruled out" and "threw out" your suggestion that the political beast who rises to initiate the 7 year apocalypse is of no consequence.

I did not say that it was of no consequense...
it is the forrunner to, and the means to incorporate,
the 2nd beasts false kingdom...

there are 2 beasts...one is a political faction, and one is an individual

The first beast is the beast who confirms the covenant with the many. He does so as a political leader. At the mid-point of the apocalypse, he commits the abomination of desolation and continues through to the consummation -- until the wrath of God determined upon him is poured upon the desolate (the 666 beast system). Daniel 9:27 (King James Version)


27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

as I said before, the beast is a world wide political faction...
that is the 7 years...that is the covanent with many

led at first on earth by kings of the earth,
and in spiritual places by Satan...

but in the second half, Satan is here himself
running the show in his own supernatural body,
performing miracles and bringing peace with his flood of lies

The first beast absolutely does continue through the entire 7 year period and is worshipped as God during the latter 3-1/2 year tribulation.

I know it continues...it is wounded as of to death at the midst,
but survives because of Satan's physical arrival....

that is how he is able to take away the daily Sacrifice,
(our prayers to God, not the blood of animals)
by claiming to be God and getting folks to worship him as Such

Based on Daniel 9:27 and the statement that the same beast who initiates the 7 year period is "the one" who commits the abomination of desolation, this first beast is that political leader.

no...the first beast is a multiheaded dragon....
it is a world wide political faction led in spiritual places by Satan,
until the mid point when Satan is cast here to earth for his short season,
and runs things himself in person so to speak

the A of D, is actually Satan himself being worshiped as God,
not any statue etc.

As far as a "bumpy ride" during the trib ~~ this whole thread is about what happens in the land of Revelation 18 at the midpoint of the apocalypse. How God's people are called out and protected, fire burns an entire land, and the saints rise in kingdom power and authority on earth.

it'll be bumpy for anyone who believes this supernatural fallen angel's false miracles and false peace, and claims of being God returned

the majority of the bride will be seduced, turned into harlots for Satan
instead of remaining faithful virgins for Christ

I do not accept your premise that the political world leader who rises to "confirm the covenant with the many" to initiate the 7 year period "disappears" at the midpoint of the apocalypse... per above.

I did not say that...
I did not mention a single world leader rising in the beginning of the 7 years

I say that the political beast is ruled from men of the earth for the first half...
10 divisions IMO

but what should be a peacefull world system, is broken by something (war prob.)
and the political beast receives a deadly wound

Satan's arrival at the mid point (silence in heaven for 1/2 an hour),
saves the broken world system, which is quickly collapsing into what might be WW3
the world believes his lies and claims of Deity

However, I had not previously considered the scriptural view that Satan being cast to earth comes in an angelic body to "be" the second beast. I am not certain if this is "ruled out" by scripture or not.

ok... that is the silence in heaven for 1/2 hour,
the accuser is cast out

Who is the second beast?? Is he the "false prophet"??

the second beast is Satan himself
in his role of false prophet,
where Christ is the true Prophet

this role is also called THE antiChrist(instead of Christ)

one entity, one role, called different things by us

false prophet = antiChrist

Because the first beast and false prophet of the 7 year period are cast alive into the lake of fire.

his role as false Jesus, and his political powers are thrown in...not any soul

They remain in the lake of fire when Satan is released from the abyss. Also, in Judgment, Satan is cast into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are. So, if the "second beast" in the first 7 years is the false prophet ~~ that beast is not Satan.

huh....just think of his role as deceiving false Jesus...and his poitical powers...they are put in the lake of fire, before Satan is

that means that when he is released from the Millennium,
he does not have those two things to help him

no false Jesus role
and no political faction

I had always believed that the 2nd beast was the false prophet in the first 7 year period. If so, that 2nd beast is NOT Satan personified. However, if the 2nd beast is not the false prophet, then I will examine whether he could be Satan come in the body of a fallen angel.

the second beast is worshiped....so is the son of Perdition in 2Thes2

Satan is cast to earth in scripture as the authority of the church rises in the anointing of Jesus Christ:

Luke 10:17-19 (King James Version)


17And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
19Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Christ is prophesying here, not giving a history lesson..

read the entire passage

Satan didn't come around when Jesus was ministering and appear before people to rule the world then.

Satan did tempt Christ in the gospels.
trook him places...

So, therefore, I'm not sure why people would think that Satan being cast down from Heaven in great authority of the church as the church arises in that power of the Spirit of Revelation 12 means that Satan is appearing in an angelic body to rule the world personally.

Satan is cast out of heaven for his short season and goes after Christians

You have not proven, to me, that Satan has appeared in a bodily form. The scripture is to interpret scripture. The scripture I just provided makes it more likely that Satan being cast to earth is evidence of the power of the church in Revelation 12 rising spiritually in Kingdom power and authority over Satan rather than Satan manifesting bodily on earth.

do you think angels in the bible are in physical form,
or look like men,
or are even called men?

as in the ones with Lot
or the ones that were with Elijah?

were the fallen angels of Gen6 mating with women or not?

isn't Satan their leader, according to Job1-2?

doesn't this show president that angels look like men and are physical and can walk to and fro?


and then, don't we have a teaching in Rev12 about Satan being cast here for his short season
and that he goes after Christians in that time

 

[justsurfing]

we can discuss why I think it is Satan,
or why you think it is a man...(general)
but no specific persons mentioned, or I am done!

we are warned not to do that in the Bible

The first beast who rises that is worshipped during the 7 year period is a political world leader who "confirms the covenant with the many". At the midpoint of the apocalypse he commits the abomination of desolation. He is completely possessed by Satan, is a devil, a child of the devil, a son of perdition, and is a human being at the same time. He is worshipped as God and martyrs Christiandom in the worst genocide and atrocity in all of human history.

You seem to have great difficulty looking squarely at man's relationship to Satan in a fallen state. Man spiritually who has blasphemed the Holy Spirit is filled with Satan. Jesus said man is a devil. Jesus didn't say the number of the 666 beast was the number of the devil as if to prove that the 666 beast is Satan personified in an angelic body. No, the Word states that the number of the 666 beast is the number of a man.Why would any deny that the first beast is a human being or attempt to divert Christians from pursuing this truth specifically??

Revelation 13: 18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.John 6: 70Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Judas, being a devil, was also called a son of perdition as the 666 beast is a son of perdition also:

John 17: 12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Man, since the fall, is a devil ~~ literally. He has the spirit of the devil and is a child of the devil. Being convinced of our salvation in Christ, we are able to see the evil of man without shrinking back.
Acts 13: 10And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

1 John 3: 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

John 8:44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.



Your inability to consider the 666 beast as a human being is concerning. That you justify him and call him a "fall guy" and cannot bear to hear of a human being being wholly evil in a blasphemous state filled with the spirit of the devil gives pause for thought.


You seem only to refer to Satan as evil and can only "blame the devil" for the evil of mankind. You cannot seem to look at Barack Hussein Obama abd bear the thought of a specific human being being considered as the 666 beast??


It is biblical to watch for the 666 beast rising. That is scripture being fulfilled. Personally, I sincerely believe it takes the grace of God to look squarely as the 666 beast rises.


Satan is cast down as the woman of Revelation 12 rises. All those who make that "rapture" will not have any issues with Satan during the Great Tribulation. The scripture says not to let that day catch us unawares. None of those who "make the rapture" into the land of Revelation 12 will have to personally deal with Satan outside the protected area of Revelation 12. And, our focus here is to be aware of the day, watching and praying as Jesus instructed us, and "making" that rapture.

A focus on Satan having been cast to the earth would be a wrong focus and a defeatist focus as if we expected to "miss the rapture". It would seem a focus directed there would be somewhat "engineered" to miss the rapture, in a way.

I think it wholly appropriate to focus on Barack Hussein Obama on this thread and the wisest course. If you're not comfortable, then it is your liberty to leave. However, it would appear to me that redirecting Christians in a manner that geared towards missing the rapture, as if they will not be in the land of Revelation 12 at the time Satan is cast down by the saints arising in Revelation 12 in 100% victory in Jesus, is just not the focus of this thread.

 

[justsurfing]

I did not say that it was of no consequense...
it is the forrunner to, and the means to incorporate,
the 2nd beasts false kingdom...

there are 2 beasts...one is a political faction, and one is an individual

The first beast does specific things:
1. confirms the covenant with the many
2. commits the abomination of desolation (declaring himself God, declaring war on the saints)
3. Is worshipped as God.

He is an individual. Yes, he comes forth from a "political faction" ~~ but he is a specific leader or "figurehead". We don't agree. Even common sense, people don't rise up to worship "political factions". The political faction brings forth a specific individual as a "dictator figure" that people worship: Hitler, Stalin, Ceasar, history is replete. There are no "coalitions" that are worshipped. Those coalitions bring forth a dictator.

as I said before, the beast is a world wide political faction...
that is the 7 years...that is the covanent with many
led at first on earth by kings of the earth,
and in spiritual places by Satan...
but in the second half, Satan is here himself
running the show in his own supernatural body,
performing miracles and bringing peace with his flood of lies

The focus on Satan is unhealthy the moment it shrinks from the recognition of the evil of man. I certainly don't mind evaluating whether Satan comes to earth as a fallen angel to even be the 2nd beast. However, it is unhealthy to use this in order to deny the wholly evil state of man in man's blasphemy of the Holy Spirit -- and to recognize evil in a PERSON such as Barack Hussein Obama and holding him up to the light of scripture to watch, pray, and test the spirits to see if they are of God.

I know it continues...it is wounded as of to death at the midst,
but survives because of Satan's physical arrival....

that is how he is able to take away the daily Sacrifice,
(our prayers to God, not the blood of animals)
by claiming to be God and getting folks to worship him as Such

The second beast calls all the world to worship the first beast as God. Now, this is why I say it is possible that the first part of Revelation 13 is the 7 year apocalypse and the latter part Satan when he emerges from the abyss. We see the dragon and the first beast below. I'm not so sure it's "right" to apply both sections of verses to the 7 year period. Your assertion that Satan himself comes in bodily form at the midpoint of the apocalypse is actually stronger here when it states the dragon and the first beast are together in unison. This doesn't call the dragon the 2nd beast or the false prophet. It simply says "the dragon". That's a stronger case for saying perhaps there's the dragon, the first beast, and the false prophet. (However, I see no evidence that Satan is in bodily form manifesting rather than being spiritually present as he is right now.)

Revelation 13
1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

no...the first beast is a multiheaded dragon....
it is a world wide political faction led in spiritual places by Satan,
until the mid point when Satan is cast here to earth for his short season,
and runs things himself in person so to speak
the A of D, is actually Satan himself being worshiped as God,
not any statue etc.

The first beast is the "figurehead" and representative of the beast system. He is a man. The number of the beast is 666 - the number of a man.

it'll be bumpy for anyone who believes this supernatural fallen angel's false miracles and false peace, and claims of being God returned

We will be in the land of Revelation 12 so long as we don't "miss it".

the majority of the bride will be seduced, turned into harlots for Satan
instead of remaining faithful virgins for Christ

That is extremely vile to state. No born-again Christian is going to be a harlot for Satan. Please do not speak further in so vile a manner towards the bride of Christ.

I did not say that...
I did not mention a single world leader rising in the beginning of the 7 years
I say that the political beast is ruled from men of the earth for the first half...
10 divisions IMO
but what should be a peacefull world system, is broken by something (war prob.)
and the political beast receives a deadly wound
Satan's arrival at the mid point (silence in heaven for 1/2 an hour),
saves the broken world system, which is quickly collapsing into what might be WW3
the world believes his lies and claims of Deity

It should be noted that the Muslim religion declares that Mahdi will rise and Jesus will appear with him uniting all world religions. Barack Hussein Obama would be the "Mahdi" figure. The second beast may come claiming to be Jesus Christ and a false prophet towards the Mahdi figure.

I don't agree with your position of the world system failing to have a human figurehead and that people will worship a political faction rather than a figurehead of same and the dragon who gives him power.

ok... that is the silence in heaven for 1/2 hour,
the accuser is cast out

You disregard scriptural cases. You in fact want to state that the 7th seal is opened before the 6th seal. The 6th seal is opened at the marriage supper of the Lamb ending the 7 year apocalyptic period. And yet you want to state that the 7th seal is opened first at the midpoint of hte apocalypse and there is silence in Heaven for a half hour by the 7th seal being opened before the 6th seal. Illogical. And you will not re-evaluate your position.

the second beast is Satan himself
in his role of false prophet,
where Christ is the true Prophet

That logic does not "work". The 666 beast and the false prophet are cast ALIVE into the lake of fire. They are clearly human beings, not fallen angels. They are also obviously individuals. Also, neither the 666 beast nor the false prophet are Satan who is dealt with separately. If you will not begin to evaluate logical fallacies in your assertions, how can we progress to greater understanding of the Word of God??

Revelation 19: 20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Revelation 20

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Furthermore, at the end of the 1000 years, Satan is a completely separate PERSON from the INDIVIDUALS who are the 666 beast and the false prophet:


Revelation 20
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The FIRST BEAST is an INDIVIDUAL who is cast into the lake of fire. The false prophet is an INDIVIDUAL who is cast into the lake of fire. They are cast in ALIVE ~~ proving they are human beings. Also, the scripture proves that NEITHER ONE is the devil ~~ who separate from them is sealed in the abyss/bottomless pit for a 1000 years.

Then, even after final Armageddon AFTER the 1000 years, it is made clear again that the first 666 beast, the prophet, and Satan are all separate from one another.

Your case as you presented it is completely disproven. The only think I personally would consider is if the "dragon" who is present at the midpoint of the apocalypse is Satan come as a fallen angel. I've never considered it before, but it seems fixated and wrong because the 7 year apocalypse is to highlight the evil of man and the world system and how man is the devil as man is spiritually filled with the devil.

The point God is making is man is so evil ~~ in the fall ~~ that the grace of God to the elect in His mercy remaking them in the image of Jesus Christ is heightened in our comprehension. We appreciate God having mercy on men in so fallen a state ~~ God is glorified.

Man is evil and God wants us to see it with absolute clarity that man in a fallen state is already satan incarnate at a core spiritual level -- and when God "lets go restraint" ~~ we see that man is Satan incarnate spiritually as the result of man's fall and just like the devils who fell. It was only grace that prevented full manifestation of the devil of man prior to the abomination of desolation. God is thereby glorified in His Holiness and in His grace to sinners in remaking us in Heaven's glory as His dear children wholly by grace.

 

[aflower4God]

The "Rapture" potentially VERY CLOSE!!

Yes I VERY much beleive that it is VERY CLOSE but no one will no the day or hour.
My mind is like this, don't dwell on it meaning I am not wondering is it today? will it be on this day? cause I feel that Jesus would NOT want me to do so.
BUT I am ready and I am watching with all of these events going on, people getting arrested here in America (freedom of Religon and speech) for preaching the Word of God on the very public streets that people do horrible things on. This did not happen decades ago, but now. This is just one of VERY MANY reasons why I think that the end is coming and coming soon, I am ready, that I can say, I am very ready to go Home and be with The Father!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yes I VERY much beleive that it is VERY CLOSE but no one will no the day or hour.

The Rapture Index

Updated Jul 26, 2010

Rapture Index 172
Net Change +1

Rapture Index of 100 and Below: Slow prophetic activity
Rapture Index of 100 to 130: Moderate prophetic activity
Rapture Index of 130 to 160: Heavy prophetic activity
Rapture Index above 160: Fasten your seat belts

 

[zeke37]

With all due respect, I burst out laughing. Not even laughing at you. Just laughing really as I immediately recalled something. I had diligently been studying the Word for 3 decades with much prayer ~~ to see one thing. Then, one day, a poster presented a "concept" I had never before heard. One of my most primary "beliefs" was challenged on the basis not of conjecture, but scripture. It shook me to my core. But, because I will always examine something even if it challenges something long held ~~ I could not refuse to examine his scriptural case.

Come to find out ~~ upon further examination ~~ I was.... wrong. "Who knew??"... that my KVJ didn't have a literal translation of time in it. That had lead to error based on "scripture" (really a wrong translation). At age 8 I had presented those scriptures to the Lord and said, "How can this be?? This doesn't seem to fit??" Still, I was trapped for over 2 decades longer in error due to a mistranslation of words related to time.

But if you are so progressed after 5 years, it's impossible for your core assumption to be wrong.... I can only laugh. Perhaps I am laughing at the suggestion based upon my own experience.

God bless.

was it the words....world or age, by chance?

what I meant to convey is that the foundation of my belief is solid...
I am willing to intertain other interpretations
and see if they line up with the Scriptures, as I understand them...
little by little things change....

but if those interps fail what is foundational for me, after many years study,
they will not jive....and I throw them out as error

 

[zeke37]

The first beast who rises that is worshipped during the 7 year period is a political world leader who "confirms the covenant with the many". At the midpoint of the apocalypse he commits the abomination of desolation. He is completely possessed by Satan, is a devil, a child of the devil, a son of perdition, and is a human being at the same time. He is worshipped as God and martyrs Christiandom in the worst genocide and atrocity in all of human history.

we've been through this already friend...we are not in agreement

there is no on comming Christian beheadings etc...
that is fantasy based off of incorrect interpretation

he (Satan) is coming (mid trib) to play act Christ returned,
big church time...

not lopping off heads...
but seducing the potential virgin bride of Christ into whoredom

You seem to have great difficulty looking squarely at man's relationship to Satan in a fallen state. Man spiritually who has blasphemed the Holy Spirit is filled with Satan. Jesus said man is a devil. Jesus didn't say the number of the 666 beast was the number of the devil as if to prove that the 666 beast is Satan personified in an angelic body. No, the Word states that the number of the 666 beast is the number of a man.Why would any deny that the first beast is a human being or attempt to divert Christians from pursuing this truth specifically??

ok...Jesus taught that we can be forgiven for Blashpheming God and the Son of God, but NOT for blaspheming the Holy Spirit

since we already know that Chrsitians are forgiven for their sins by Christ,
your idea is incorrect, because blashpeming of the Holy Spirit is UNFORGIVABLE

Revelation 13: 18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.John 6: 70Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Judas, being a devil, was also called a son of perdition as the 666 beast is a son of perdition also:

John 17: 12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Judas was infilled by Satan at that time,
and the declaration of son of Perdition is IMO only towards Satan,
who did the filling
not Judas, because Judas did repent,
and Judas did try to stop the murder of Christ
and Judas was martyred/murdered for his trouble too

so let's not judge him...let God do that

Man, since the fall, is a devil ~~ literally. He has the spirit of the devil and is a child of the devil. Being convinced of our salvation in Christ, we are able to see the evil of man without shrinking back.
Acts 13: 10And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?

we should always try to convey the entire thought...to better understand

this is specific to a certain person...
who was probably a kenite, a Jewish imposter,
known in name as a Jew, as kenites are, but not in blood

6And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Barjesus:
7Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God.
8But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith.
9Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him.
10And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
11And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand. 12Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.

imo there are literal sons of the devil, of Cain's lineage..and they are called that, as the scribes in Jesus' time were...

but there are also spiritual sons....real bad dudes, regardless of blood line

1 John 3: 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

spiritual IMO

John 8:44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

literal IMO...see 1Chr2:55...scribes called Kenites are counted as Jews
but they are not jews..they are kenites


connect with Rev2-3, Smyrna and Philadelphia

Your inability to consider the 666 beast as a human being is concerning.

inability..not so much....
choice, well sure
the choice is based on what I understand about what the bible teaches

can you show me a biblical scripture that teaches us
that Satan will indwell the end time leader, instead of being here himself?

because I can show you the opposite...
Satan cast to earth for a short season and going after Christians with a flood that comes from his mouth
and the beast that looks like a lamb being worshiped

That you justify him and call him a "fall guy" and cannot bear to hear of a human being being wholly evil in a blasphemous state filled with the spirit of the devil gives pause for thought.

it's a possibility....

Satan IS coming to deceive the world, in his own supernatural body
he will claim to be Christ returned...

one part of Christ's return is the defeat of this end time bad guy
So, logically,
Satan would need to "defeat" someone and claim that that someone was of the devil

You seem only to refer to Satan as evil and can only "blame the devil" for the evil of mankind. You cannot seem to look at Barack Hussein Obama abd bear the thought of a specific human being being considered as the 666 beast??

a specific human being is NOT the 666 beast...Satan is!
see Rev12

It is biblical to watch for the 666 beast rising. That is scripture being fulfilled. Personally, I sincerely believe it takes the grace of God to look squarely as the 666 beast rises.

I'm fine with that...I watch too!
IMO, the formation will be European to start

Satan is cast down as the woman of Revelation 12 rises. All those who make that "rapture" will not have any issues with Satan during the Great Tribulation.

there is no "rapture" in Rev12
spiritual or otherwise
however, if you look to Ez37(my namesake here at CF),
you might find what you are describing...the spiritual awakening of the elect.
but it is not shown in Rev12, although I'm sure you'd beg to differ

The scripture says not to let that day catch us unawares. None of those who "make the rapture" into the land of Revelation 12 will have to personally deal with Satan outside the protected area of Revelation 12. And, our focus here is to be aware of the day, watching and praying as Jesus instructed us, and "making" that rapture.

I just don't see it that way friend,
but I'm glad you don't believe we are whisked off of the planet
as a means of escape, like pretribbers do

A focus on Satan having been cast to the earth would be a wrong focus and a defeatist focus as if we expected to "miss the rapture".

no...there is no rapture until after Satan has done his thing...
after the trib, there is the rapture...Mat24/Mar13

It would seem a focus directed there would be somewhat "engineered" to miss the rapture, in a way.

there is no rapture in Rev12...
but to be sure, the elect do awaken in that time, as Ez37 shows
but it is not a rapture or gathering to Christ...
it is a spiritual awakening of spiritually dead people

I think it wholly appropriate to focus on Barack Hussein Obama on this thread and the wisest course. If you're not comfortable, then it is your liberty to leave. However, it would appear to me that redirecting Christians in a manner that geared towards missing the rapture, as if they will not be in the land of Revelation 12 at the time Satan is cast down by the saints arising in Revelation 12 in 100% victory in Jesus, is just not the focus of this thread.

you have the freedom to discuss your ideas with anyone you want,
this thread otr another...up to you Bro.
as long as you follow forum rules.

as am I

but I said "I" would not entertain such an idea...
"I" will not debate it with you....
I'll just say no!

there is a very long reason, with a lot of scripture,
to why I believe Satan is coming here himself
in his own supernatural fallen angel body...for the trib's 1/2 way point

not flesh and blood but very real and physical, as angels bodies are

and not possessing anyone...but rather doing it himself....

 

[zeke37]

The first beast does specific things:
1. confirms the covenant with the many
2. commits the abomination of desolation (declaring himself God, declaring war on the saints)
3. Is worshipped as God.

can you show me where the "first beast" confirms the covanent with many? thx.

He is an individual.

who the first beast?...7 heads....
the "mouth" of the 1st beast, IS the 2nd beast, who IS an individual

Yes, he comes forth from a "political faction" ~~ but he is a specific leader or "figurehead". We don't agree.

we don't agree about "him" being the first beast

Even common sense, people don't rise up to worship "political factions".

the first beast is a political faction
now, as stated, that mutiheaded first beast has a "mouth"

The political faction brings forth a specific individual as a "dictator figure" that people worship: Hitler, Stalin, Ceasar, history is replete. There are no "coalitions" that are worshipped. Those coalitions bring forth a dictator.

the first beast is run by 10 kings Rev17

the "mouth" is the rise of Satan in this kingdom, who is later called "another" beast

The focus on Satan is unhealthy the moment it shrinks from the recognition of the evil of man.

the point is, that the evil "man" IS a supernatural being,
that will fool the world.... Satan..looking like a lamb(Christ), not you know who

I certainly don't mind evaluating whether Satan comes to earth as a fallen angel to even be the 2nd beast

Satan IS a fallen angel,
and the bible states that Satan is cast here for a short season...
the bible does not say that Satan will possess an evil man, etc.
if I missed that, can you point it out to me, Thx

after all, Satan has possessed folks before...and when he did, the bible is "explicite" in teaching that...no questions asked...

the same cannot be said for the idea that Satan possesses the end time dictator...

However, it is unhealthy to use this in order to deny the wholly evil state of man in man's blasphemy of the Holy Spirit --

since that would be unforgivable, I do not agree with your conclusions
else Christ died in Vain? na!

The second beast calls all the world to worship the first beast as God.

I disagree...but you're not the first to disagree with me
the world is worshiping both the system (mark in the hand)
and the individual, the mouth (mark in the forhead)

the "mouth" continues for 1/2 the hour, not the full hour

Now, this is why I say it is possible that the first part of Revelation 13 is the 7 year apocalypse and the latter part Satan when he emerges from the abyss.

see Rev9...he emerges from the bottomless pit then....
and it is the first woe...5 months (shortened time for the elect's sake?)

We see the dragon and the first beast below. I'm not so sure it's "right" to apply both sections of verses to the 7 year period. Your assertion that Satan himself comes in bodily form at the midpoint of the apocalypse is actually stronger here when it states the dragon and the first beast are together in unison. This doesn't call the dragon the 2nd beast or the false prophet. It simply says "the dragon". That's a stronger case for saying perhaps there's the dragon, the first beast, and the false prophet. (However, I see no evidence that Satan is in bodily form manifesting rather than being spiritually present as he is right now.)

the fisrst beast has a mouth...
I believe that mouth is the second beast
and we just learned that Satan is cast here for a short season...in Rev12
and that he is no longer going to be in heaven then...
so the case for possession weakens,
since he is not in heaven for the last 1/2 hour accusing
but rather he is here on earth....defacto

The first beast is the "figurehead" and representative of the beast system. He is a man. The number of the beast is 666 - the number of a man.
We will be in the land of Revelation 12 so long as we don't "miss it".

the first beast is a multiheaded political faction, under the dragon...
now, even if we are in the "wilderness" for 3 1/2 times, or 1/2 hour
that is not "the" rapture....
that is a spiritual awakening and protection by God...
but not the rapture

That is extremely vile to state. No born-again Christian is going to be a harlot for Satan. Please do not speak further in so vile a manner towards the bride of Christ.

being born again is not at issue...
being blinded by God is....

this final generation is a particularily evil one

the only ones alive at His Coming, who will be good to go,
are the firstfruits...not all Christians

there is a reason for that...



the bible teaches that at the Lord's Coming,
only 144,000 will be redemed of men, of the earth. Rev14

that means that there are alot of Christians that are not going to make it....
not then anyway....
even if the number is symbolic

only 2 of 7 churches will be "lit" in the beasts reign...Rev11
5 of 10 brides in waiting don't make the cut in the Gospels parable
and Paul taught that he was worried of that very thing...in 2Cor11

1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

but we do have the Millennium to help those that went astray in the trib
Ez44, Rev5, Rev20

It should be noted that the Muslim religion declares that Mahdi will rise and Jesus will appear with him uniting all world religions. Barack Hussein Obama would be the "Mahdi" figure. The second beast may come claiming to be Jesus Christ and a false prophet towards the Mahdi figure.

Islamic interests are going to be involved, IMO no doubt
their end time saviour IS the false Christ IMO

I don't agree with your position of the world system failing to have a human figurehead

at first, the first 1/2 hour, I really don't think it does...
but rather 10 political sections,
on all 7 continents

and that people will worship a political faction rather than a figurehead of same and the dragon who gives him power.

I don't think the word "worship" here means in a religous sense.
I think it means...since there is only one gvmt, and one currency,
that there is no choice but to go with it

You disregard scriptural cases. You in fact want to state that the 7th seal is opened before the 6th seal.

not really...I think that, much like the Olivette prophesy,
Christ was giving signs....not specifics...same basic order too!

and actually, I think the 6th seal is NOT Christ's return at all,
but rather heavenly judgements and Satan's Coming
fooling the world into THINKING that the wrath of Christ is come

Satan has his wrath too...


but the wrath of God is not poured out until the vials in Rev16,
after the trib...

The 6th seal is opened at the marriage supper of the Lamb ending the 7 year apocalyptic period.

you can think that if you wish...many do!

And yet you want to state that the 7th seal is opened first at the midpoint of hte apocalypse and there is silence in Heaven for a half hour by the 7th seal being opened before the 6th seal. Illogical. And you will not re-evaluate your position.

I have re-re-evaluated my position many times...
but I end up where I am...

you have simply misunderstood MY position
and now are making comments
based on YOUR incorrect evaluation of my position.

sorry if I contributed to that misunderstanding

the 6th seal is IMO not the Coming of Christ,
but rather Satan's Coming.
the 7th seal holds the final 1/2 hour
which includes all the trumps.

That logic does not "work". The 666 beast and the false prophet are cast ALIVE into the lake of fire. They are clearly human beings, not fallen angels. They are also obviously individuals.

if it were obvious, we would not be debating it

the lake of Fire destroys souls and anyone that goes into it
unless it is a ROLE and a SYSTEM, instead of an individual

the lake destroys souls at Judgement, not before

IOW, symbolism...
the first beast (political kingdom)
and his ROLE of the false Christ
are done away with and cast into the lake

he will not have them to use at his release in the Millennium's end
and yet many will still follow him, even after the 1000 years of teaching
see Ez44, Rev5, Rev20

Also, neither the 666 beast nor the false prophet are Satan who is dealt with separately.

one is a system and one is a role...

Satan is the individual

I don't know how much more clear I can be about that...

you can choose to believe it,
or put it on a shelf for later,
or disregard it

If you will not begin to evaluate logical fallacies in your assertions, how can we progress to greater understanding of the Word of God??

perhaps it is not I that is in error Bro!

Furthermore, at the end of the 1000 years, Satan is a completely separate PERSON from the INDIVIDUALS who are the 666 beast and the false prophet:

The FIRST BEAST is an INDIVIDUAL who is cast into the lake of fire. The false prophet is an INDIVIDUAL who is cast into the lake of fire. They are cast in ALIVE ~~ proving they are human beings.

actually, that proves the opposite...but anyway

Also, the scripture proves that NEITHER ONE is the devil ~~ who separate from them is sealed in the abyss/bottomless pit for a 1000 years.

actually scripture says that the 2nd beast speaks like a dragon...see Rev12/20

and scripture says that they worshiped the dragon (Satan) who gave power to the beast...
and then they worshiped the beast, not in a religous sense IMO

and it is the mouth of the beast that is the centre of the worship of the beast

Then, even after final Armageddon AFTER the 1000 years, it is made clear again that the first 666 beast, the prophet, and Satan are all separate from one another.

sure...
one is a role
and one is a political power,
and then there is the one behind it all, Satan the entity

Your case as you presented it is completely disproven.

well, to each their own I guess

The only think I personally would consider is if the "dragon" who is present at the midpoint of the apocalypse is Satan come as a fallen angel. I've never considered it before, but it seems fixated and wrong because the 7 year apocalypse is to highlight the evil of man and the world system and how man is the devil as man is spiritually filled with the devil.

while I understand what you are saying, and I kinda get it,
but my point is already made....

there are many levels to prophesy
I had never before considered that the 2nd beast is the post millennial Satan
I don't agree, but I had never considered it before

 

[justsurfing]

I'll come back and respond if anyone discussed with me things. I'm writing a blog. It's on the Christian destiny of the USA, and "how to make the rapture"> how to "come under" the "kingly anointing". You see, it will be by subjection to the KING that the kingly anointing comes upon one. There is no way to "rise up" in human will to gain the anointing of Jesus Christ. Rather, one must bow down low before the King. Humble yourselves and you shall be lifted up!! He who exalts himself shall be abased.

It is by return to the doctrines of Calvinism in recognition of the Rulership dynamics of the Kingdom that we shall bow low before the King as His subject ~~ and arise as His bride in spiritual union. God does not ask us to abase ourselves in humility to bow down low before Him that He may abase us, but rather that we may arise out of the baptismal waters of death so that the Heavens open above us and the Spirit comes upon us like a dove in the anointing of the Glory of God present upon Jesus Christ. Jesus WAS "dead to self" through full reverent submission to God the Father and was ever sinless. However, we have sin in us. Our hope to arise in the "kingly anointing" is to bow so low before our King in humility, that we are plunged under the baptismal waters of death to self, and arise in the Spirit to walk in the full measure of the full stature of Christ in the kingly anointing.

Subjection to the King will cause us to enter the anointing of "the rapture" in death to self and in death to human will apart from Him as if we "owned ourselves". Satan's lies will be defeated. No longer will self-centered will or denial of the Sovereign Kingship of God over all "appeal to us" as we press into Heaven's glory... and Satan is cast down before us in the land of Revelation 12... under our feet... and OFF OUR PROPERTY!! ~~ For the ground on which we stand on THAT DAY shall be holy and every where where our foot is shall the land be ours given to us as our Promised Land in the Lord.

(That was just me talking. Here's the beginning of the blog I am working on -- the USA is the land of Revelation 12 -- and necessarily the land of Revelation 18):

The first fact that I would like to establish is that the Puritans and Pilgrims who came to colonize the land of the United States of America were Reformed in their doctrine. It is the Reformation by which the Spirit moved to bring settlers to the colonies.

The Calvinist doctrine of predestination, with which Puritanism agreed, was held by the Pilgrims as well: both believed that the human state was one of sin and depravity; that after the Fall all but an elect group were irrevocably bound for hell; that, because God's knowledge and power was not limited by space or time, this group had always been elect. (The American Sense of Puritan)
​

The City upon a Hill:


As the Pilgrims and Puritans came to the New World, they believed they were on a Divine mission to fulfill a prophetic purpose.

The phrase ["city upon a hill"] entered the American lexicon early in its history, in the Puritan John Winthrop's 1630 sermon "A Model of Christian Charity." Still aboard the ship Arbella, Winthrop admonished the future Massachusetts Bay colonists that their new community would be a "city upon a hill," watched by the world:
For we must consider that we shall be as a city upon a hill. The eyes of all people are upon us. So that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken... we shall be made a story and a by-word throughout the world. We shall open the mouths of enemies to speak evil of the ways of God... We shall shame the faces of many of God's worthy servants, and cause their prayers to be turned into curses upon us til we be consumed out of the good land whither we are a-going.[1]
In understanding this task as a vocational charge upon the community, Puritan leaders, writers, and speakers developed literary and theological parallels with the tasks laid upon the people of Israel, forged around the Exodus agreement with God to go into an unknown place and live out a calling they believed prophetically placed upon them.
​

This is the prophecy I believe God has given for the USA:

Endtime Prophecy ~ Part VI: Jesus Declares War to Protect Christians in the “Rapture” of Revelation 12

Posted on July 18, 2010 by 12 Star Truth
Synopsis: The apocalypse potentially began 1/21/2009 with the inauguration of Barry Sotero (aka Barack Hussein Obama) to office of President of the United States. It is prophesied that a world leader will rise as a political “messiah”. 1260 days later (3-1/2 years), he commits the abomination of desolations. This begins the 3-1/2 year “Great Tribulation”. At the midpoint of the apocalypse when the 666 beast commits the abomination of desolation, an angel comes down from Heaven in great glory to protect the Christians of the land of Revelation 18. The angel calls those Christians to come out and separate from the followers of the beast on the land. God has prepared plagues including a plague of fire to destroy the followers of the beast on the land. The Christians thus called out by Divine Intervention form a glorious new Christian nation. A “Revolution” is fought by the army of Heaven in Revelation 12 against the 666 beast system and followers of the beast on the land of Revelation 18. The 666 beast system there and it’s followers are destroyed in one hour. The land of Revelation 18 becomes the land of Revelation 12. The Christians who enter the land of Revelation 12, an area of refuge, are protected during the Great Tribulation. The land of Revelation 18, thus Revelation 12, is the USA. Supposing the apocalypse began with the inauguration of Sotero (taking the oath the 2nd time), the date of this Revolution and Secession fought and accomplished by God via the armies of Heaven would be 1260 days from 1/21/2009: July 4, 2012, Independence Day 2012.
Longer article scriptural/current event case:
At the mid-point of the apocalypse, the 666 beast commits the abomination of desolations. He declares himself to be God. The anti-christ demands all the world worship him alone. The saints refuse to worship the anti-christ or take the mark of the beast. The 666 beast declares war on the saints in global genocide against all Christians. But that cannot stop God from blessing America and guiding her through the night with the Light from above. (cont'd -- more in article)




************************************

ZION Rises in the USA!!

Posted on July 31, 2010 by 12 Star Truth
TRUE ZION ~~ RISES!! The mature Christian nation of the entire sanctification of EVERY CITIZEN thereof arises in the miracle working power of God. God will RELEASE THE SPIRIT to the saints who hear the cry of the angel of Revelation 18:1-4. The angel comes down in great glory to cry, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues“. The FIRE will sweep across the USA ~~ and destroy all evil on the land. Satan will be driven off of the land. The GLORY OF THE LORD shall come upon the Christians and upon the land in FULL MEASURE. The saints and the body ~~ THE NATION ~~ shall arise in Christian perfection in maturity of entire sanctification. The ZION of the Great Tribulation, the MOST GLORIOUS NATION in the HISTORY of the world to date, arises!!
THIS IS COMING TO THE USA!! If people could SEE THE GLORY ~~ they would NEVER look at this evil STATE and think it is “CHRISTIAN”. NO!! We must look to JESUS and ARISE in sanctification by the Spirit. We must bring Satan under our feet to ELIMINATE THE STATE by spiritual means in Christ in spiritual warfare from above!!
I tell you, God will soon do this. It’s a miracle. It’s what people THINK OF when they think of “the rapture”. However, they “shortchange God”. They have not even been able to GRASP how GREAT THE GLORY of GOD’s PLAN is ~~ so much HIGHER than our thoughts!! ZION will be on EARTH in Christian perfection for the latter 3-1/2 years of the Great Tribulation on earth in these bodies in entire sanctification. ZION shall arise as God incredibly pours out His Spirit to bring TO FRUITION what our FOUNDERS ENVISIONED from afar. They had no idea, probably, that the VISION would be ATTAINED by their future GENERATIONS on this land: ZION RISING IN PERFECTION ~~ CHRISTIAN PERFECTION in the entire sanctification of the entire NATION of Christians. It’s beautiful.
(more at article)

*****************

That is the vision. The scripture says to speak the vision plainly that he who hears may run with it.

It is time to humble ourselves before God and to strive to submit to God's Kingship and His Sovereignty on the inside as humble servants and humble subjects of a King in a kingdom that is His. For thine is the Kingdom and the power and the glory forever and ever. Amen.

American Christians, I say, must FORSAKE the IDEA of DEMOCRACY and INALIENABLE RIGHTS to VOTE, etc., etc., IN the Kingdom of God. It is a MONARCHY!! We must become as OLD WORLD SAINTS and relate to Jesus in the ways of those who are subject to Monarchy -- subject to a King. The rule of the King is ABSOLUTE in His Kingdom. He initiates and rules and decides and carries out His will and none can say to Him, "What are you doing?" to prevent or forestall His will. We must ACCEPT THIS and let self-will be subdued in our abject submission to Jesus Christ as King. We need a NEW WAY OF THINKING that is not conformed to this culture!! We must think as SUBJECTS to the King.

(IT is when our founders SUBJECTED to GOD AS SOVEREIGN and as THEIR KING that this nation arose in Kingdom power granting inalienable rights in Liberty, Sweet Liberty. But IN THE DAYS THAT ARE COMING, as we SUBJECT AGAIN THIS TIME WITH GREATER POWER OF GLORY IN REVELATION OF OUR KING, when we arise from our humbled position, the glory of the Lord will rise upon us in such GRACE ~~~ we shall arise to MANIFEST the nation of Revelation 12 in fullness of glory as the ZION of Revelation 12!! Then, dear brothers and sisters, shall we relate to one another in love in Christ and there shall be no hierarchy. We will be fully agreed in spirit and in truth -- for the MONARCHY of Jesus Christ is PERFECT in LIBERTY -- and will produce the PERFECT DEMOCRACY where no human will of the flesh "moves" but rather as spiritual sons and daughters of the King we shall MANIFEST God's perfect will FREELY in WILLS SET FREE BY THE SPIRIT according to the LIBERTY ADAM HAD IN THE GARDEN ~~ before he broke fellowship with the SPIRIT OF LIBERTY by heeding the LIES and SEDUCTION of Satan to sin ~~ as if Adam could have... his own kingdom.)

REJECT YOUR OWN KINGDOM!!

Bow prostrate before the Jesus Christ, our God, our Lord, our King!!

And be RESTORED FULLY to the Kingdom come as the glory of the Lord rests upon you in fullness filling you from head to toe!!

And may the TRUE kingly anointing of the HEAVENLY KINGDOM be yours in overflowing abundance so that you delight yourselves in the Lord and He grants you EVERY DESIRE of your HEART!!

AH!! TRUE FREE WILL RESTORED!!

In subjection to the Sovereignty of God and worship of Jesus Christ, our God, our Lord, our King.

To GOD be the glory... great things He hath done!!

(I just felt to "speak forth" of the land of Revelation 12 and what is to come and "how" to "make the rapture"... so to speak).

I'll come at another time and answer if anyone addressed me in a post. I am working on my blog.

 

[NumberOneSon]

Actually, Glenn Beck is one of the Two Witnesses.

Check out when Pat Gray joined up with Glenn Beck in witnessing. It was on July 13, 2009. Count 1260 days to Dec 24, 2012. Check out the date Achilles predicted the two witnesses mission would end, Dec 24.

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11:11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Hmmmm.....Glenn just announced a Restoring Courage rally for this year....in Israel ( many people interpret Jerusalem as being the "great city" spoken of in Rev. 11). We're a year early, but maybe 2011's rally in Israel won't be the last for Beck, eh Hawk?

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by NightHawkeye Actually, Glenn Beck is one of the Two Witnesses.

Now if I see him killed, then after 3 and half days he stands up and raptured to heaven, then we will know he is one of the those 2 witnesses

11:11 And after three days and an half, the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they hear a great Voice out of the Heaven saying to them "Ascend ye here!"
And they ascended into the heaven in the cloud and observed them, the enemies of them.
[John 11:43 raising of Lazarus]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7461118/#post54553876
Lazarus and 2 witnesses of Reve 11 similarity

 

[NightHawkeye]

Hmmmm.....Glenn just announced a Restoring Courage rally for this year....in Israel ( many people interpret Jerusalem as being the "great city" spoken of in Rev. 11). We're a year early, but maybe 2011's rally in Israel won't be the last for Beck, eh Hawk?

In Christ,

Acts6:5

I sense that you have a conflict here, Acts?

You're trying to say that your prophecy 8-ball tells you that "Restoring Courage" is Beck's last stand? That'd bite ... but seems a tad early to me.

I wonder if he'll get 144,000 ...

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
​

But, wait, there's more ... wouldn't wanna take Bible verses out of context ...

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
​

Some of us equate the angel above with the first woe ...

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
​

The fall of Babylon as the second woe ...

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
​

And the third angel above with the third woe ...

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
​

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
​

So, where do ya think we are in the timeline, Acts?


.

 

[NumberOneSon]

I sense that you have a conflict here, Acts?

You're trying to say that your prophecy 8-ball tells you that "Restoring Courage" is Beck's last stand? That'd bite ... but seems a tad early to me.

No, I'm not saying that it's Beck's last stand; I'm just comparing this recent development with your belief concerning Beck and Gray being the two witnesses. As I said, we're a year early (you've suggested that their mission would end on Dec. 24, 2012), but I think the Restoring Courage rally could certainly lead to other Beck appearances in Jerusalem next year that could coincide with the 2012 date.

So, where do ya think we are in the timeline, Acts?

No idea, lol.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[NightHawkeye]

No idea, lol.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

Why is that, Acts?


Surely you have studied Bible prophecy ...

You don't have an opinion ... or just don't want to express one, LOL?


.

 

[Nitescape]

Beck can't be one of the Witnesses.
He is a Mormon.

 

[NumberOneSon]

Why is that, Acts?

Surely you have studied Bible prophecy ...

You don't have an opinion ... or just don't want to express one, LOL?

My eschatology leans toward partial preterism, a system that doesn't always lend itself to identifying exact timelines and such.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

 

[NightHawkeye]

No, I'm not saying that it's Beck's last stand; I'm just comparing this recent development with your belief concerning Beck and Gray being the two witnesses. As I said, we're a year early (you've suggested that their mission would end on Dec. 24, 2012), but I think the Restoring Courage rally could certainly lead to other Beck appearances in Jerusalem next year that could coincide with the 2012 date.


No idea, lol.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

Perhaps my earlier question was too broad. I'll be more specific.

A corresponding timeline in Revelation chapter 11 indicates the ascension of the two witnesses coincides with the second woe:

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
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11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
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No, I'm not saying that it's Beck's last stand; I'm just comparing this recent development with your belief concerning Beck and Gray being the two witnesses. As I said, we're a year early (you've suggested that their mission would end on Dec. 24, 2012) ...

God's still moving on his timetable ... we probably won't be changing that.

Since the two witnesses, unarguably, will be killed at the time of the second woe whereas the 144,000 stand on mount Sion prior to the first woe, I don't see conflict there, Acts. Your post vaguely hints at conflict though, so let me know if you still see conflict.


... and what if we see 144,000 standing? ... if not, then can virtual be considered, LOL.

... but I think the Restoring Courage rally could certainly lead to other Beck appearances in Jerusalem next year that could coincide with the 2012 date.

stay tuned ...

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
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