The question cessationists must answer.

[YeshuaFan]

All kinds of sundry people claim that Lord has spoken to them only to reveal utter nonsense!

True, as I read Churk Swindoll stating one time in one of his books how amazing it was that God only spoke to people to attend the conference in the summer time, but never while in the winter!

 

[YeshuaFan]

then repent

Repent of what, still sinning at times?

 

[YeshuaFan]

It has been done and being done, yet we continue to be sinners as long as we live.

Only Jesus ever walked in sinless perfection!

 

[YeshuaFan]

God gave gifts unto men AFTER Jesus resurrected as we read in Ephesians 4:11. These gifts were apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastors and teachers. All these gifts are still needed for the church until we all come into the unity of the faith unto the perfect man.

These were apostles and prophets after the resurrection. The original 12 were before the resurrection ( even though their ministry extends to the edifying of the church as well). They had a specific call to be witnesses of all Jesus did from John until his resurrection and they had to go in and out in all Jesus travels with hi,. Certain apostles, such as, Paul, Brnanbas, Timothy and Silvanus and Titus did not have this qualification. So they were apostles after the resurection and this shows that all such gifts are still for today.

All Apostles had to either walk with Jesus, walk with one of His chosen Apostles, or seen the risen Lord, so non qualified to be such for today!

 

[YeshuaFan]

After resurrection only Jesus called Paul as His chosen instrument.

Paul was the last Apostle called by Jesus Himself...

 

[YeshuaFan]

We have already established that the "we" in 1 Thessalonians is not always Paul, Silas and Timothy. In 1 Thes 2:2 it cannot include Timothy as only Paul and Silas were mistreated in Philippi (despite your bizarre unwarranted claim that Timothy was mistreated as well). Nor does the "we" include Timothy in 1 Thes 3:1 as the next verse makes clear; and the timeline in Acts indicates it doesn't include Silas either.



Here's the qualification:

Acts 1:22 "one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."​

And here's why it was needed:

Acts 1:1-2 "to the apostles whom He had chosen....He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God."

Acts 4:33 "And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus"​

To be an apostle you must have seen the risen Christ in person (Acts 1:22) and you had to be personally appointed by him. Not all those 500 were appointed apostles.

Paul, like the other apostles, was personally appointed by Christ.....

Acts 26:16-18 "I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me."

Gal 1:1 "Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—"
​

And Paul said he was the last person the see the risen Lord...

1 Cor 15:8 "and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. For I am the least of the apostles"​

So there can be no apostles today.

We really need to be grounded on the scriptures, as its amazing how many claim to have seen Jesus or had Him talk to them, and yet their theology is not of God! Not speaking to anyone here posting, but to the WoF teachers themselves!

 

[Alithis]

Before giving up what is inside, Jesus wants you to give up what is outside first. Remember the rich young ruler by the way?

Then do so.. And stop sinning .repent.

 

[Alithis]

Repent of what, still sinning at times?

Repent of doing sin you Know is sin but refuse to stop doing it.
Sin is a work you do. Not a thing you have.
Guilt is a thing you have .a.and you have it because youve knowingly continued to do actions of sin.
Sorry guys ..you pc didnt turn itself on and type in key words then click on links to filthy sex pictures.
That can only happen because you made that choice .
Nothing can make the born again believer do actions they know are sin.

Its not sin your feeling its the guilt of iniquity because you havnt yet repented of Doing the work of sin.
Sin is a work that is why it has a wage.
Get a new job

 

[Francis Drake]

You are redlining revelation here, as the Holy Spirit can and still does lead and guide and direct thru Bible, people, circumstances, but NO new revelations as WoF claims, as in doctrines and theology getting updated by God!

Would you stop ranting on about WOF as I have no idea what that is.
And to imagine I would find my wife's stolen car by looking in the bible is beyond stupid!

The revelation of my wife's stolen car was, came through one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, a "Word of Knowledge". And that has absolutely nothing to do with new doctrines has it.

My point has always been that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still in operation and God still speaks to his children. Points which without proof, you constantly deny.

So, you still have not answered my question, who told me what street to down to find find my wife's car when it was stolen? Ans
And, additionally, where would you find that information in your bible?

 

[Francis Drake]

Nope, as my concern is to make sure the Gospel is lived out and given out by me to lost sinners, and to bring maturity and training in instruction to the already saved!

You avoid my point again and again. And you cannot be doing what you pretend to be doing in the above, as you run away from what Jesus says about the Great Commission in Mark.-

Mark16v15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17“These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

Casting demons out either applies to your "lost sinners", or your "already saved".
So if you are not driving the demons out, then you are not making sure the gospel is lived out as Jesus commanded. You're a fraudster.

 

[Francis Drake]

I would much rather stand upon the firm rock of the scriptures though than standing upon much of the theology and doctrines of the modern day Charismatic Movement!

Except that you are not standing on a scripture, you are standing on a doctrine of demons.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Then do so.. And stop sinning .repent.

Have you reached yet a sinless state then?

 

[YeshuaFan]

Would you stop ranting on about WOF as I have no idea what that is.
And to imagine I would find my wife's stolen car by looking in the bible is beyond stupid!

The revelation of my wife's stolen car was, came through one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, a "Word of Knowledge". And that has absolutely nothing to do with new doctrines has it.

My point has always been that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are still in operation and God still speaks to his children. Points which without proof, you constantly deny.

So, you still have not answered my question, who told me what street to down to find find my wife's car when it was stolen? Ans
And, additionally, where would you find that information in your bible?

Again, the main contention of us holding to spiritual gifts having now ceased are mainly referring to the sign gifts done by the Apostles, and to having new revelations from the Lord. That is the primary battle ground here in this discussion!

 

[YeshuaFan]

You avoid my point again and again. And you cannot be doing what you pretend to be doing in the above, as you run away from what Jesus says about the Great Commission in Mark.-

Mark16v15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17“These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

Casting demons out either applies to your "lost sinners", or your "already saved".
So if you are not driving the demons out, then you are not making sure the gospel is lived out as Jesus commanded. You're a fraudster.

Per your definition, then Spurgeon, Calvin, Luther, Whitefield, Moody, all were frauds, as they saw the Gospel as I do, not as you do!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Except that you are not standing on a scripture, you are standing on a doctrine of demons.

Strange that you call the Pauline theology of the Cross demonic!

 

[Francis Drake]

Outside of the gospels and Acts, how many time did any Apostle command us to cast out demons, to drink poison, etc then?

They weren't commanded to drink poison.
Society today lives under the doctrines of the enlightenment, where everything spiritual is distained. That's not just the existence of God, but angels, demons, gifts, and miracles etc.

That's why people, including Christians, are so cynical about spiritual gifts and deliverance from demons. You grow up under that unspiritual western paradigm, which you then imported into your bible studying.

In complete contrast, the third world has no trouble in understanding the scriptures regarding demons because their society lives with such things as a daily fact of life. Thankfully, the darkness of the "enlightenment" never reached that far to rob them of the ministry of deliverance.

In Jesus's time, it was much like the third world is today. People were completely aware of what demons did to destroy lives both mentally and physically, and regularly asked Jesus to cast them out, and heal them. Which he did all the time without questioning the veracity of their diagnosis.

My point being that there was no need to teach about demons as they were around just like the common cold.
The disciples had been casting them out from the beginning, long before Pentecost, therefore, as the demons were still around, driving them out would continue as before. It was one of the most basics of Christian ministries that all believers could and should do, even today.
That demons were still a problem to Christians is shown in various places.-
James4v7Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Eph6v10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. 11Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

1Pet5v8Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

1Cor10v20No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons.

 

[Francis Drake]

All Apostles had to either walk with Jesus, walk with one of His chosen Apostles, or seen the risen Lord, so non qualified to be such for today!

Tradition, not scripture.

 

[W2L]

They weren't commanded to drink poison.
Society today lives under the doctrines of the enlightenment, where everything spiritual is distained. That's not just the existence of God, but angels, demons, gifts, and miracles etc.

That's why people, including Christians, are so cynical about spiritual gifts and deliverance from demons. You grow up under that unspiritual western paradigm, which you then imported into your bible studying.

In complete contrast, the third world has no trouble in understanding the scriptures regarding demons because their society lives with such things as a daily fact of life. Thankfully, the darkness of the "enlightenment" never reached that far to rob them of the ministry of deliverance.

In Jesus's time, it was much like the third world is today. People were completely aware of what demons did to destroy lives both mentally and physically, and regularly asked Jesus to cast them out, and heal them. Which he did all the time without questioning the veracity of their diagnosis.

My point being that there was no need to teach about demons as they were around just like the common cold.
The disciples had been casting them out from the beginning, long before Pentecost, therefore, as the demons were still around, driving them out would continue as before. It was one of the most basics of Christian ministries that all believers could and should do, even today.
That demons were still a problem to Christians is shown in various places.-
James4v7Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Eph6v10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. 11Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

1Pet5v8Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

1Cor10v20No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons.

I had some charismatic guy online try to cast out demons from me. These demons supposedly were depression and anxiety. However this guy only fueled my mental problems. He was also very dishonest. He goaded me into answering a question i didnt want to answer then he reported me to staff.

 

[Francis Drake]

Strange that you call the Pauline theology of the Cross demonic!

I never for one moment said Paul's theology of the cross was demonic.
But every last thing Paul taught was the antithesis of your cessationism.

 

[Francis Drake]

I had some charismatic guy online try to cast out demons from me. These demons supposedly were depression and anxiety. However this guy only fueled my mental problems. He was also very dishonest. He goaded me into answering a question i didnt want to answer then he reported me to staff.

What has this to do with my post?