The question cessationists must answer.

[Alithis]

I think those are the 12 apostles of christ a group that were his disciples, but Paul was also an apostle, and not part of the 12.

thats what the scripture says.
thats what it is

 

[Righttruth]

God gave gifts unto men AFTER Jesus resurrected as we read in Ephesians 4:11. These gifts were apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastors and teachers. All these gifts are still needed for the church until we all come into the unity of the faith unto the perfect man.

These were apostles and prophets after the resurrection. The original 12 were before the resurrection ( even though their ministry extends to the edifying of the church as well). They had a specific call to be witnesses of all Jesus did from John until his resurrection and they had to go in and out in all Jesus travels with hi,. Certain apostles, such as, Paul, Brnanbas, Timothy and Silvanus and Titus did not have this qualification. So they were apostles after the resurection and this shows that all such gifts are still for today.

After resurrection only Jesus called Paul as His chosen instrument.

 

[Righttruth]

then repent

You mean that I should repent for having been born sinner?

 

[Alithis]

You mean that I should repent for having been born sinner?

yes, and get born again , a new creature in christ .
not the old one that is a prisoner to sin and runs around telling people the lord jesus failed to bring freedom from sin .

(yes yes hohum yawn , out will come the argument that every one sins.
but not every one sins knowingly and willfully. no one who has been set free by the lord Jesus has to do a work of sin.)

take the sin of adultory in looking at porn on the internet for instance.
my wife and child use the net all the time and they've never seen porn .

because they dont make a decision to seek it out.
You see no one does an action of sin which they KNOW is sin ,by accident.
if they say they do they add to thier sin by lying.
and if they continue to practice the sin
they do not yet know God.

 

[Righttruth]

yes, and get born again , a new creature in christ .
not the old one that is a prisoner to sin and runs around telling people the lord jesus failed to bring freedom from sin .

(yes yes hohum yawn , out will come the argument that every one sins.
but not every one sins knowingly and willfully. no one who has been set free by the lord Jesus has to do a work of sin.)

take the sin of adultory in looking at porn on the internet for instance.
my wife and child use the net all the time and they've never seen porn .

because they dont make a decision to seek it out.
You see no one does an action of sin which they KNOW is sin ,by accident.
if they say they do they add to thier sin by lying.
and if they continue to practice the sin
they do not yet know God.

1 John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

 

[Alithis]

1 John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

keep reading...he doesnt end the letter there

 

[Alithis]

weve been here before ,,the sin promoting trolls have arrived

 

[Righttruth]

keep reading...he doesnt end the letter there

Before you think of the future hope, don't forget your background; otherwise, it becomes a shallow speculation!

 

[Righttruth]

weve been here before ,,the sin promoting trolls have arrived

So you are for sin justification on your own!

 

[Alithis]

Before you think of the future hope, don't forget your background; otherwise, it becomes a shallow speculation!

It is no longer i that lives But Christ that lives in me.
The past is done .

Phill 3... Forgetting those things which are behind ..

And you WERE (PAST TENSE) dead in the trespasses and sins in which you ONCE WALKED(PAST TENSE) following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is NOW _PRESENT TENSE_ at work in the sons of disobedience—



among whom we all ONCE LIVED (PAST TENCE) in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and WERE (PAST TENSE) by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we WERE (PAST TENSE) dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ......



People who try to say paul continued to knowingly do works of sin have Not bothered to read past thier cherry picked sentance.



They are enemies of the cross of Christ. Un willing to die to themselves.



The God is thier belly (nateral carnal desire) thier glory is in thier shame.who mind earthly things .

 

[swordsman1]

I marvel at how you cannot see these clear truths and that God works in all believers and speaks to their heart.

When the word of God came to the prophets. God spoke to them and they would speak what they heard and then it was written down after the word of God came to them. We read that they had the Spirit of Christ in them 1 Peter 1.

The word is the seed sown in the heart and God's word speaks inwardly and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. This word is the true Light which lighteth every man ( since Adam) that cometh into the world. John 1:9 KJV.

When Jesus asked the religious pharisees who studied scripture but did not know Gods word in their heart. He ask how they could not understand his speech, even because they could not hear his word. The word of the kingdom is sown in the heart. If they have a hard heart they cannot hear. Jesus is the true Light that lights all men. They had His light to reprove them and yet they hated the light and did not come to the light.

Some have scriptures but not the word of life in them as the pharisees. Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you. But they hardened their hearts.

Reading God's word and having those words abide in our hearts is not the same as a new feelings or thoughts popping into our heads which charismatics say is God's voice.

 

[swordsman1]

These were apostles and prophets after the resurrection. The original 12 were before the resurrection ( even though their ministry extends to the edifying of the church as well). They had a specific call to be witnesses of all Jesus did from John until his resurrection and they had to go in and out in all Jesus travels with hi,.

Resurrection Sunday was not the only time people saw the risen Christ. He made numerous post resurrection appearances....

1 Cor 15:5-9 " and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. For I am the least of the apostles...."​

Certain apostles, such as, Paul, Brnanbas, Timothy and Silvanus and Titus did not have this qualification. So they were apostles after the resurection and this shows that all such gifts are still for today.

Paul saw the resurrected Christ, he said so in the above passage. Barnabas was at the inception of the Church and he no doubt saw Christ. Timothy and Titus did not see Him but they were definitely not apostles. Silas could have seen Him but it's doubtful he was an apostle as the only the hint he was one is Paul's loosely used "we" in 1 Thessalonians. He is mentioned plenty of times elsewhere and never referred to as an apostle.

 

[swordsman1]

If you read it carefully God is saying that the commandment he gave to them in stone was not hidden from them. it was not in heaven or beyond the sea. But the word was nigh them, or close to them, even in their heart and mouth.

The word that abides in the Israelites hearts is the same word that Moses gave them, not a fresh revelation.

"For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off......But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.”"​

Paul says an amazing thing here he takes the Old Testament verses in Deuteronomy 30 and is basically saying God has already preached in the heart of every man by Christ who is the word.

Again the word that abides in their hearts is not new revelation:

"The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;"​

The Gentiles even have the work of the law written in their hearts even though they don't have the scriptures as we read

"14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."(Romans 2:14-16 KJV)

That is referring to the moral law which everyone understands, including non-believers. It is not the Law itself that written in their hearts it is the "work of the Law". Everyone knows right and wrong from their conscience - that they should not murder, steal, lie, etc. The human conscience is never referred to as God's 'voice' in scripture.

 

[Alithis]

Reading God's word and having those words abide in our hearts is not the same as a new feelings or thoughts popping into our heads which charismatics say is God's voice.

Sure. That Could be A valid comment.
But if you dont believe enough to DO what your reading then you make it all of no effect.

 

[Righttruth]

It is no longer i that lives But Christ that lives in me.

That is a claim of a saint and disciple of Jesus. Are you?

 

[Alithis]

That is a claim of a saint and disciple of Jesus. Are you?

Of course. All those born again of water and spirit who walk not after the flesh but after the Holy spirit are sanctified by their actions of obedient faith in JESUS and are saints.
We are disciples of the lord Jesus.

Its also not the omly verse i quoted..
I also quoted this which shows so plain that paul never continued to willingly sin nor did he EVER promote doing so .



And you WERE (PAST TENSE) dead in the trespasses and sins in which you ONCE WALKED(PAST TENSE) following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is NOW _PRESENT TENSE_ at work in the sons of disobedience—



among whom we all ONCE LIVED (PAST TENCE) in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and WERE (PAST TENSE) by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we WERE (PAST TENSE) dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ......



People who try to say paul continued to knowingly do works of sin have Not bothered to read past thier cherry picked sentance.



They are enemies of the cross of Christ. Un willing to die to themselves.



The God is thier belly (nateral carnal desire) thier glory is in thier shame.who mind earthly things .

 

[Alithis]

Some folks might want to study the word saints and then take note how often believers were referred to as the saints

 

[Righttruth]

Of course. All those born again of water and spirit who walk not after the flesh but after the Holy spirit are sanctified by their actions of obedient faith in JESUS and are saints.
We are disciples of the lord Jesus.

A tall claim and 'ear tickling' theology!

Luke 14
26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
27 Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.

33 So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.

 

[Alithis]

A tall claim and 'ear tickling' theology!

Luke 14
26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
27 Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.

33 So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.

Nope . an ear tickling theology goes around saying nono its ok you just keep right on sinning don't you worry..
People actually hate what i preach ..i..its called repentance .trning from doing evil works.
And you cant use that verse unless you are living according to it.
What have you ever given up to follow JESUS?
When your not even willing to gove up sin?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

By what wisdom or power do YOU minister today? is it by human wisdom, accrued knowledge? or is it imparted to you by the Holy Ghost?

1.Corinthians.2.4-5
and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and power that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

1.Corinthians.2.14.
The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God for they are folly to him and he is not able to understand them for they are spiritually discerned.

The Holy Spirit let me know a decade ago that the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus in Luke 16 is Covenantle, just like Revelation.
How about you?
Praise the LORD! AMEN!

Revelation 11:8
and their dead bodies are upon the broad-place of the great City (that is called spiritually Sodom, and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified,)

The Rich man and Lazarus

Luke 16:19
“There was a certain Rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.

Revelation 18:
7 “In the measure that She glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give Her torment and sorrow;
for She says in her heart, ‘I sit as Queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.'
16 “and saying, ‘woe, woe, that great City that was clothed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls!...............



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