The question cessationists must answer.

[YeshuaFan]

Jesus never answered anybody like that.

Paul explains fully what his thorn in the flesh was, a messenger of Satan sent to buffet him. Stonings, beatings, shipwrecks etc

...he was not sick, a sick man could not have endured his lifestyle.

That thorn was given for the purpose of keeping Paul humble in view of his many visions and spiritual attainments...

God's grace IS sufficient for a Christian to endure anything...but it is not a reason for not expecting God to heal.

He took our sins on the cross, He carried our sicknesses and bore our pains on the cross.

So why don't you apply that argument to sin? actually some folks do...they say Paul had a sin which he could not get victory over...oh dear.

Paul had some type of eye disease many believe, and do you deny then that the grace of God is sufficient for those saved or are say in wheelchairs like joni Erickson, whom God used her infirmity for His greater glory far more so than if she had been physical healed?

 

[YeshuaFan]

We believe in medicine...you did well to strain this gnat out, you can't weigh this and few other cases against the whole weight of bible testimony

Cut all the miracles out of the gospels and acts and see what bible you have left.

Cut the gifts out of the letter to the Corinthians.

Does God promise that all of his people will have healings and miracles and have easy living? Read Hebrews 11 for the answer!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Thats an intriguing statement.
You give the gospel out..
What is the message you tell people.?
Is it like so many who only give out half or less then half of the over all gospel message?

I give them the gospel of Jesus, that lost sinners can be saved and have eternal life in Christ by receiving Jesus as Savior and Lord!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Paul didnt ask for healing ..he asked for a tormenter to be removed from him .he said God sent it to buffet him to keep him from being too proud because of the level of revelation he had recieved .
He described it as a thorn in his side.

People often say .oh that person is a thorn in my side...
Everyone knows they mean that person causes them grief and trouble everytime they come by..
No one ever says oh ...are you sick. Lol

But ONLY ONLY from the bible do people equate a thorn in the side to be illness..never ever do they do that in any other scenario.
Its sbsolutley ridiculous.
Paul was not practicing willful sin
And was not ill.

He said "a messenger from satan was sent to buffet him"

Why people then make up fairytales in regard to that i do not know.
Usually to self justify hidden sin i guess

Paul probably also had severe eye disease, and all of the Apostles were tortured, put in prison, harmed, faced persecution , all for the sake and cause of Christ. They seemed not to have received the "full Gospel" message!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Jesus never did call him as an apostle.

Paul pretty much always stated that he was called by God the father and the Lord Jesus themselves, as being the last Apostle, one born out of season!

 

[YeshuaFan]

This is not an accurate list non of those are requirements for the apostles after the resurrection.

And what verse are you trying to use to say all apostles have to see the risen Lord?

All true Apostles had to either seen Jesus, walked with Him while he was here on Earth, or had Him appear to them after the resurrection, so since now ascended, none more were called!

 

[Righttruth]

Paul pretty much always stated that he was called by God the father and the Lord Jesus themselves, as being the last Apostle, one born out of season!

Do you discount what Jesus called?

 

[YeshuaFan]

Do you discount what Jesus called?

No, as he called the original 11, and I see Paul as the One chosen by Him to replace judas!

 

[W2L]

No need to cast out demons from a saved person, but that person having mental issues can turn to the sacred scriptures and find relief for worry and doubts!

Amen.

 

[Francis Drake]

Strange that you would say that though, as Paul Himself saw Jesus as delivering all of the saved out from Kingdom of darkness into His own Kingdom of light, and no need for a deliverance ministry for them!

I haven't a clue how you imagine this is connected to my post?
But Jesus commanded us to cast demons out, so if you insist that believers can't have demons, then you must be casting them out of the unregenerate as part of the gospel.

So, why are you rebelling against his commandment.

 

[W2L]

I haven't a clue how you imagine this is connected to my post?
But Jesus commanded us to cast demons out, so if you insist that believers can't have demons, then you must be casting them out of the unregenerate as part of the gospel.

So, why are you rebelling against his commandment.

Where exactly are we commanded to cast out demons?

 

[Francis Drake]

Much of the so called third world living under paganism and superstition, ….

​

That's the point I was making, (although there's just as much demon inspired paganism around the west these days, albeit under more respectable names.)

And because of their idol worshipping background, they are far more aware of the demonic realm than westerners whose theology has been polluted by Enlightenment philosophy. And having ministered high in the mountains of Nepal, I know this is true for a fact.

When they get saved, they are very aware of the need for deliverance from the demons that come from their previous life, so they get on and do it with thankfully, no fool theologian to tell them its wrong.

….so really need to have the Gospel of Jesus preached to them in order to set them free from bondage to things in their minds!​

​

Jesus originated the preaching of the gospel, but that didn't remove the need for him to cast demons out wherever he went. Nor do you find anywhere in his preaching where he tells a demonised person that he only needs to get saved and it'll all disappear.​

​

And finally, those remote Nepalis were all baptised in the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, prophesying etc, long before arrived​

​

 

[Francis Drake]

Where exactly are we commanded to cast out demons?

Its part of the Great Commission in Mark.

Mark16v15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17“These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

 

[W2L]

Its part of the Great Commission in Mark.

Mark16v15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17“These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

Those are signs of an apostle. Is everyone an apostle?

 

[swordsman1]

Its part of the Great Commission in Mark.

Mark16v15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17“These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

Mark 16:17-18 is not a command, its a prophecy. It was fulfilled in the 1st century AD. I notice you didn't quote the next verse. Nobody today is immune from deadly snake bites and drinking poison. Those 2 are rather harder to counterfeit.

That's if you assume the long ending was written by Mark, and all the evidence points to it not being him.

 

[W2L]

There are signs of an apostle and a sign of a disciple. The signs of an apostle are that they can heal, cast out demons, drink deadly poison and not die, ect. Here is the sign of a disciple, its quite simple:

John 13:35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”.

Love is greater than anything. Its no small thing.

 

[Francis Drake]

Those are signs of an apostle. Is everyone an apostle?

Completely wrong.
It says casting demons out is a sign following those who believe.
It doesn't mention apostles.

 

[NBB]

No need to cast out demons from a saved person, but that person having mental issues can turn to the sacred scriptures and find relief for worry and doubts!

Sure that statement has some 'comfort' on it very nice and all, except is a lie!
Demons just don't go because you convert and teaching that is against our well being.
I myself also didn't think that demons were so problematic, but God showed me my own spiritual problems with evil spirits, to resolve them, i assure a long while after converting, teaching that christians don't have problems with evil spirits is just wrong.

 

[W2L]

Completely wrong.
It says casting demons out is a sign following those who believe.
It doesn't mention apostles.

In the apostle Paul's epistles we see that he mentions the signs of an apostle. (2 Corinthians 12:12) Paul also clearly teaches that not everyone has the same gifts. So not everyone can heal or do any other miracles. (1 Corinthians 12)

 

[YeshuaFan]

I haven't a clue how you imagine this is connected to my post?
But Jesus commanded us to cast demons out, so if you insist that believers can't have demons, then you must be casting them out of the unregenerate as part of the gospel.

So, why are you rebelling against his commandment.

When did Jesus command that to us in the Great Commission, as that is the working orders for his church now!