The question cessationists must answer.

[Righttruth]

God can still do as he wishes, but he has chosen to not have any modern Apostles/Prophets, nor to have any gifted with those sign gifts!

There cannot be more than 12 apostles. Gifts are for common good, and they need not be spectacular.

 

[YeshuaFan]

This is not related to gibberish talk

Any gift of tongues in Acts were unlearned real languages!

 

[Strong in Him]

I am not concerned in private prayer inside a room. What concerns me is the loud gibberish utterances in a congregation.

Like I said, what right do you have to say that someone praising God in a tongue is talking "gibberish"? Unless it's case of, "well I don't understand it, so it must be."

 

[Deborah D]

As I've posted on this thread, I've seen and FELT such a powerful spirit of UNBELIEF--one of the most powerful forces on earth. Of course, our Lord Jesus Christ is infinitely more powerful!

Matthew 13:54-58 says this:

[Jesus] went to His hometown and began to teach them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished and said, “How did this wisdom and these miracles come to Him? Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t His mother called Mary, and His brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, aren’t they all with us? So where does He get all these things?” And they were offended by Him.

But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his household.” And He did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.
​

Mark 6:1-6 says this:

[Jesus] went away from there and came to His hometown, and His disciples followed Him. When the Sabbath came, He began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard Him were astonished. “Where did this man get these things?” they said. “What is this wisdom given to Him, and how are these miracles performed by His hands? Isn’t this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and the brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And aren’t His sisters here with us?” So they were offended by Him.​

Then Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown, among his relatives, and in his household.” So He was not able to do any miracles there, except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them. And He was amazed at their unbelief.​

 

[Deborah D]

That passage is mainly addressing those who will come to Jesus to get saved by Him, and all of the redeemed indeed hear from God in the scriptures!

What fancy theology you have!

My theology is simple. All I know is what Jesus said!

I am His sheep, and I hear His voice! AND by His grace, I obey His voice! That's the Christian life, my friend!

Edit: For those of you who think that Jesus wasn't talking about us in John 10, look at this verse.

John 10:16 says,"But I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock, one shepherd."

We are the "other sheep."

 

[Deborah D]

This is not related to gibberish talk

You're right when you say that this is not about gibberish. Praying in the Spirit is not gibberish!!!

How many times will this lie about praying in the Spirit be repeated? How about 100 more times? Do you think that I'll be convinced if it's repeated that many times?

 

[Deborah D]

Yes, thru medicine, surgeons, divine healing etc, and many times He also chooses to allow the Christian to die and pass on to glory!

Ha! That would be funny if it were not SO tragic! Medicine probably kills as many people in the U.S. as disease! I'm not ruling out the possibility of God using doctors--if God directs a Christian to seek medical advice. But it doesn't pay for a Christian to place his/her trust in medical science.

 

[NBB]

That passage is mainly addressing those who will come to Jesus to get saved by Him, and all of the redeemed indeed hear from God in the scriptures!

In the scriptures and the spiritual voice of Jesus too. Jesus is not mute to christians.

 

[Francis Drake]

Well "the perfect" or "completion" must either mean the return of Christ or the completion of the canon. The evidence from the context, seeing that Christ or his returned is never mentioned in the passage, is it is more likely to be the latter.

Now there's a double standard hypocrisy if ever there was one.
You falsely judge the "return of Christ" as not relevant to "the perfect" or "completion".
You then bizarrely claim those words must therefore refer to your "completion of the cannon" when you know that that concept is never even mentioned in that passage, that book, or anywhere else in scripture!
Yet more fakery from Cessationists, but in contrast, I can proves those words are used for eschatological purposes.

"going through the necessary stages to reach the end-goal" and "fulfilling the necessary process (spiritual journey)" are hardly apt descriptions of the instantaneous and glorious return of the Lord. In the passage Paul describes the completion process using the metaphor of a child maturing into a adult (1 Cor 13:11). Again, hardly an apt metaphor for the sudden and awesome Day of the Lord.

Its not about the suddenness of Christ's return, but the steady approach to its perfection or completion as seen through the ages.

But here's your previous attack on my use of the Greek word Teleios for that completion and perfection.
"Where is Christ's return mentioned here? 'The perfect' or 'completion' (as many versions better translate teleios) is not the return of the Christ. The word teleios in scripture is never associated with the return of Christ or anything eschatological."

"Never associated with the return of Christ?"
Really?
The scriptures use derivatives of Teleios several times in direct association with the return of Christ, and the end of the age.
A common word derived from teleios is synteleia.

Cognate: 4930 syntéleia (from 4862 /sýn, "close together with" and 5055 /teléō, "complete, consummate") – culmination (completion), i.e. when the parts come together into a whole ("consummation") – "an end involving many parts" (B. F. Westcott). See 4931 (synteléō).

4930 /syntéleia ("culminating end, finish") is not strictly "termination" but rather "consummation" (completion) that ushers in a new time-era/age (Mt 13:39,40,49,24:3, 28:20).

We can see that usage in the following three verses referring to the consummation of the age and Christ's return.

Matt24v3And as He was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him in private, saying, "Tell us, when these things will be? And what is the sign of Your coming, and the consummation of the age?"

Matt28v20. teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you. And behold, I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age."

Heb9v26. Otherwise it was necessary for Him to have suffered repeatedly from the foundation of the world. But now He has been revealed once in the consummation of the ages for the putting away of sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

On the basis of the above verses and others, it is perfectly legitimate to presume the following verse refers to the return of Christ and his reign in perfection.
1Cor13v10but when perfection (completeness) comes, what is in part disappears.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Ha! That would be funny if it were not SO tragic! Medicine probably kills as many people in the U.S. as disease! I'm not ruling out the possibility of God using doctors--if God directs a Christian to seek medical advice. But it doesn't pay for a Christian to place his/her trust in medical science.

If I came down with say cancer, would I seek to have the Lord heal me? Yes, but He also is sovereign , so he could heal directly, by surgery, by medicine, or by physical death!

 

[YeshuaFan]

In the scriptures and the spiritual voice of Jesus too. Jesus is not mute to christians.

Jesus always speaks to us thru the scriptures!

 

[YeshuaFan]

You're right when you say that this is not about gibberish. Praying in the Spirit is not gibberish!!!

How many times will this lie about praying in the Spirit be repeated? How about 100 more times? Do you think that I'll be convinced if it's repeated that many times?

Is the language a real language, per Acts, the tongues were real but unlearned languages!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Like I said, what right do you have to say that someone praising God in a tongue is talking "gibberish"? Unless it's case of, "well I don't understand it, so it must be."

Where were they tongues for personal prayers given though? As always was in a church or group meeting setting!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Now there's a double standard hypocrisy if ever there was one.
You falsely judge the "return of Christ" as not relevant to "the perfect" or "completion".
You then bizarrely claim those words must therefore refer to your "completion of the cannon" when you know that that concept is never even mentioned in that passage, that book, or anywhere else in scripture!
Yet more fakery from Cessationists, but in contrast, I can proves those words are used for eschatological purposes.

Its not about the suddenness of Christ's return, but the steady approach to its perfection or completion as seen through the ages.

But here's your previous attack on my use of the Greek word Teleios for that completion and perfection.
"Where is Christ's return mentioned here? 'The perfect' or 'completion' (as many versions better translate teleios) is not the return of the Christ. The word teleios in scripture is never associated with the return of Christ or anything eschatological."

"Never associated with the return of Christ?"
Really?
The scriptures use derivatives of Teleios several times in direct association with the return of Christ, and the end of the age.
A common word derived from teleios is synteleia.

Cognate: 4930 syntéleia (from 4862 /sýn, "close together with" and 5055 /teléō, "complete, consummate") – culmination (completion), i.e. when the parts come together into a whole ("consummation") – "an end involving many parts" (B. F. Westcott). See 4931 (synteléō).

4930 /syntéleia ("culminating end, finish") is not strictly "termination" but rather "consummation" (completion) that ushers in a new time-era/age (Mt 13:39,40,49,24:3, 28:20).

We can see that usage in the following three verses referring to the consummation of the age and Christ's return.

Matt24v3And as He was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him in private, saying, "Tell us, when these things will be? And what is the sign of Your coming, and the consummation of the age?"

Matt28v20. teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you. And behold, I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age."

Heb9v26. Otherwise it was necessary for Him to have suffered repeatedly from the foundation of the world. But now He has been revealed once in the consummation of the ages for the putting away of sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

On the basis of the above verses and others, it is perfectly legitimate to presume the following verse refers to the return of Christ and his reign in perfection.
1Cor13v10but when perfection (completeness) comes, what is in part disappears.

Who besides the Apostles were given sign gifts in acts then?

 

[NBB]

Jesus always speaks to us thru the scriptures!

Wrong, he can speak to christians directly, a good position on this matters is that if you have not experienced something do not discard it and say is not true. Specially when so many christians are telling you that this things happen.

 

[Francis Drake]

What??? New scriptures that have never been revealed before??? And God showed them to you???

Some of us on this forum have actually read ALL that is revealed in the Bible! And we base our theology on it ALL.

I never mentioned new scriptures, so ​

I haven't a clue why you are attacking me.
Please enlighten me as I thought we were on the same side.

 

[Francis Drake]

Who besides the Apostles were given sign gifts in acts then?

You don't know, are you serious?
Try the Corinthians for a starter.
1Cor12v7Now to each is given the manifestation of the Spirit, for the common profiting. 8For truly, to one is given a word of wisdom by the Spirit, and to another a word of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9and to a different one faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10and to another working of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another discerning of spirits, and to a different one various kinds of tongues, and to another interpretation of tongues. 11Now one and the same the Spirit works all these things, apportioning individually to each as He wills.

And as the letters were generally meant to be passed around the churches, the same gifts would be true for all the churches that Paul mentored.

 

[NBB]

What??? New scriptures that have never been revealed before??? And God showed them to you???

Some of us on this forum have actually read ALL that is revealed in the Bible! And we base our theology on it ALL.

I say a lot of people have received truths from God, that can be described as words from him, but that doesn't mean God wants them to be added to the bible. But they are still words from God. God did not stop speaking things after the new testament like cessationists claim. I know you are not one of them.

 

[Francis Drake]

If I came down with say cancer, would I seek to have the Lord heal me? Yes, but He also is sovereign , so he could heal directly, by surgery, by medicine, or by physical death!

Yes Jesus did a lot of that didn't he.

46And they come to Jericho...............and ......a blind beggar, Bartimaeus, son of Timaeus, was sitting beside the road. 47And having heard that it is Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out and to say, “Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me.”
……….…………….
51And Jesus answering him says, “What do you desire I should do to you?”
And the blind man said to Him, “Rabboni, that I may receive sight.”
52And Jesus said to him, “You really need to see an optician"

 

[AbbaLove]

The phenomenon that Paul speaks of in the following verse is different from a "known tongue" in Acts 2. The "unknown tongue" is often associated with personal intercessory prayer (Prayer Warrior).

1 Corinthians 14:2
For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.​

"To be a Prayer Warrior is to engage in the spiritual battle and fight the good fight of faith wearing the full armor of God and 'pray[ing] in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests' (Ephesians 6:18). Prayer warriors have a heart for God, a heart for prayer, a heart for people, and a heart for Christ's Church." ... How can I become a prayer warrior?