The question cessationists must answer.

[Strong in Him]

We all have the baptism of the Holy Spirit. But tongues, word of knowledge and prophecy ceased with the Apostles. Scripture replaces these inferior gifts.

Where does Scripture say that Scripture replaces signs from God?
The OT had both - written word and prophecy/miracles.

 

[Dave L]

Where does Scripture say that Scripture replaces signs from God?
The OT had both - written word and prophecy/miracles.

You need to show examples of the spiritual gifts being conveyed apart from the two outpourings and through the hands on an apostle. Until you do this, those gifts have ceased.

“How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?” (Hebrews 2:3–4) (KJV 1900)

 

[NBB]

God speaks only through scripture and he directs us when love is our motive. The flesh and imagination direct us at all other times. Do what love would do when given a choice and that is God speaking.

One thing, does God corrects people at all in your view??? Or we need to extract everything from the bible.
Because God disciplines those who he loves the bible says, and i was rebuked by Jesus in some things i have done.

 

[NBB]

You are the one hearing voices in your head. Not me........

But you need to distinguish from who are the voices that are speaking 'in your head', not only the devil is able to speak you know.

 

[Dave L]

One thing, does God corrects people at all in your view??? Or we need to extract everything from the bible.
Because God disciplines those who he loves the bible says, and i was rebuked by Jesus in some things i have done.

We are motivated by love and we experience the joy of the Holy Spirit. If we sin, we loose our joy and become remorseful until we seek forgiveness and repent. But scripture teaches us how to avoid sinning, so we can walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

 

[Dave L]

But you need to distinguish from who are the voices that are speaking 'in your head', not only the devil is able to speak you know.

This is why I do as Paul says, “(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds, Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;” (2 Corinthians 10:4–5) (KJV 1900)

 

[swordsman1]

The irony, of course, is that since scripture never once declared that prophecy ceased, it would necessarily have required a prophecy to establish this fact, but the prophecy would have been self-refuting. To publicly declare that no prophecy outside of the canon is true is to prophesy outside of the canon, and the prophecy then declares itself a lie, which we can, naturally, ignore. However, because there is no prophecy within the canon to state this cessation, being wed as we are strictly to the doctrines set forth in this canon we must ignore such extra-biblical claims of a cessation.

Prophecy (and apostles) were only for the foundation of the Church....

"having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone" (Eph 2:20).
​

Is the foundation of the church still being built? Do we still have apostles today? If apostles ceased after the foundation of the church (and few dispute they did) then so did prophecy.

What people call prophecy today does not match the biblical definition of prophecy. Today's prophecies are nothing more than fuzzy feelings popping into people's heads which are then presumptuously declared to be a 'word from the Lord' yet are regularly proved to be false. Whereas in scripture prophecy is described as God speaking precise words to the prophet who could then quote those words and infallibly say "Thus says the Lord...".

 

[Francis Drake]

If you look into the Greek words, "coming" in 1 Cor. 1:7 = apocalypse. And John uses the same word "revelation" of Jesus Christ = apocalypse of Jesus Christ. So we have direct quotes from scripture proving Paul's anticipated "coming" was then fulfilled.

I checked the Greek before I posted, and the word "coming" does not appear anywhere in either 1Cor1v7 or v8.

 

[Dave L]

I checked the Greek before I posted, and the word "coming" does not appear anywhere in either 1Cor1v7 or v8.

“So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:” (1 Corinthians 1:7) (KJV 1900)

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:” (Revelation 1:1) (KJV 1900)

"coming/Revelation" = ἀποκάλυψις, εως, ἡ (s. ἀποκαλύπτω; Philod., Vit. [περὶ κακιῶν] p. 38 Jensen) (Plut., Cato Mai. 34 8 [20, 8], Aemil. 262 [14, 3], Mor. 70f ἀ. τῆς ἁμαρτίας; Sir 11:27; 22:22; 41:26 v.l.; TestAbr A 6 p. 83, 27 [Stone p. 14]; GrBar, ApcEsdr ins, Just.) the lit. sense ‘uncovering’ as of head (s. Philod. above) does not appear in our lit., which uses the term in transcendent associations.
① making fully known, revelation, disclosure

Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 112). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

 

[NBB]

This is why I do as Paul says, “(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds, Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;” (2 Corinthians 10:4–5) (KJV 1900)

So you are saying the Holy spirit pointing something out in you, are 'imaginations' this has happened to me and others countless of times. I think you are 'shooting yourself in the foot' depriving yourself of blessings because you don't believe God can do more.

 

[Dave L]

So you are saying the Holy spirit pointing something out in you, are 'imaginations' this has happened to me and others countless of times. I think you are 'shooting yourself in the foot' depriving yourself of blessings because you don't believe God can do more.

Try casting down imaginations, and making your thoughts conform to Christ (the bible), as Paul says. And go by how love (God) leads you in your heart.

 

[Francis Drake]

I believe we have a more accurate prophetic word in scripture than any spoken word. Peter affirms this.
“For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” (2 Peter 1:17–21)

But Peter's words do nothing to prove your claim that scripture is more accurate than a spoken personal prophecy. Its like arguing which is better, a coat or a house.
The prophet Samuel's word of knowledge to the young Saul, that his father's donkeys had been found, is of no use whatsoever when it comes to me finding my wife's stolen car.
On the other hand, when the Lord directly told me what street to go down and find it, that was most useful. I found her car outside a shop, called the police who came and arrested the thieves.
That's the gift of prophecy working today, but speaking from your void, you arrogantly claim such things are false prophecy.

And we have an inner guidance of the Holy Spirit that moves us according to God's wisdom.
“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:13)

But when you blockade that same Holy Spirit from doing anything outside your own theological remit, you impose blindness and deafness upon yourself and other saints under your influence.

And, all prophecy today is false. The gifts having ceased with the apostles.

Your foolish claim is laughably and provably wrong by over 50 years of experiencing the voice of the Lord in every sphere of life.
Here is not the place to do it, but I have countless testimonies of the visionary or spoken gifts coming to pass, including a precision one from my son when he was 3 regarding a house purchase!

“And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” (Acts 8:18)

Given that most of the money offered up by Christians is taken by paid pastors and teachers, not prophets, this is hardly a relevant scripture.

“How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?” (Hebrews 2:3–4)

Exactly, our words should be backed by the operation of the various gifts given according to HIS, GOD'S will, not the will of @Dave L

 

[Dave L]

But Peter's words do nothing to prove your claim that scripture is more accurate than a spoken personal prophecy. Its like arguing which is better, a coat or a house.
The prophet Samuel's word of knowledge to the young Saul, that his father's donkeys had been found, is of no use whatsoever when it comes to me finding my wife's stolen car.
On the other hand, when the Lord directly told me what street to go down and find it, that was most useful. I found her car outside a shop, called the police who came and arrested the thieves.
That's the gift of prophecy working today, but speaking from your void, you arrogantly claim such things are false prophecy.

But when you blockade that same Holy Spirit from doing anything outside your own theological remit, you impose blindness and deafness upon yourself and other saints under your influence.

Your foolish claim is laughably and provably wrong by over 50 years of experiencing the voice of the Lord in every sphere of life.
Here is not the place to do it, but I have countless testimonies of the visionary or spoken gifts coming to pass, including a precision one from my son when he was 3 regarding a house purchase!

Given that most of the money offered up by Christians is taken by paid pastors and teachers, not prophets, this is hardly a relevant scripture.

Exactly, our words should be backed by the operation of the various gifts given according to HIS, GOD'S will, not the will of @Dave L

The problem is that the gifts, once distributed by an apostle, are not longer here. And all claims to having them are fraudulent.

 

[Francis Drake]

All prophecy today is false. It is very harmful to ignore scripture and listen to the deceived.

Its bizarre that you imagine people who listen to prophecy somehow ignore scripture. As I said elsewhere, its like comparing which is best, a coat or a house, two items of covering for entirely different purposes.
You Dave, walk around stark naked, trying to prove that your nicely ordered house is far more important than my coat, (meanwhile forgetting that as well as my coat, I also have a house.)

Your constant rant of "all prophecy today is false" is just that, a rant, devoid of experience or truth.
In obvious contrast to your void, I have lived prophetic words and visions for over 50 years, both receiving and giving.
They range from mere spiritual encouragement to deeply significant and life changing.
Many of them cover stuff that no scripture can reveal. ie. dates, names, events and places.
And as said previously, back in the 80s, my son at 3 years old gave an accurate and provable prophecy about buying a house. The word contained a deadline over 3 months hence, which came to pass a mere 2 hours short of the final deadline.
Was that a false prophecy?
Was my 3 year old a liar?

Nobody in their right senses should just blindly take a prophetic word without using discernment.
But exactly the same discernment should apply when listening to any bible teacher, even teachers here, and that includes myself.

As one who rails against prophetic deception you should note that the gifts of the spirit in the church have effectively been banned for almost 2000 years.
In that 2000 years, the only input the church had was at the hands of church theologians. And these theologians, with no help whatsoever from the prophetic gifts have managed to slice and dice the church into thousands of conflicting sects and denominations.

So next time you rail against the prophetic gifts, just remember it was theologians who messed up the church, not the prophets!

 

[Dave L]

Its bizarre that you imagine people who listen to prophecy somehow ignore scripture. As I said elsewhere, its like comparing which is best, a coat or a house, two items of covering for entirely different purposes.
You Dave, walk around stark naked, trying to prove that your nicely ordered house is far more important than my coat, (meanwhile forgetting that as well as my coat, I also have a house.)

Your constant rant of "all prophecy today is false" is just that, a rant, devoid of experience or truth.
In obvious contrast to your void, I have lived prophetic words and visions for over 50 years, both receiving and giving.
They range from mere spiritual encouragement to deeply significant and life changing.
Many of them cover stuff that no scripture can reveal. ie. dates, names, events and places.
And as said previously, back in the 80s, my son at 3 years old gave an accurate and provable prophecy about buying a house. The word contained a deadline over 3 months hence, which came to pass a mere 2 hours short of the final deadline.
Was that a false prophecy?
Was my 3 year old a liar?

Nobody in their right senses should just blindly take a prophetic word without using discernment.
But exactly the same discernment should apply when listening to any bible teacher, even teachers here, and that includes myself.

As one who rails against prophetic deception you should note that the gifts of the spirit in the church have effectively been banned for almost 2000 years.
In that 2000 years, the only input the church had was at the hands of church theologians. And these theologians, with no help whatsoever from the prophetic gifts have managed to slice and dice the church into thousands of conflicting sects and denominations.

So next time you rail against the prophetic gifts, just remember it was theologians who messed up the church, not the prophets!

Unless you can prove from scripture the spiritual gifts came in any other way than the two outpourings and the hands of an apostle, all claims to having the gifts are fraudulent.

 

[GingerBeer]

Have you ever heard the old pastors calling, "Can I get a witness?" or "Can I get an amen?"

No. I've seen an actor say that, I think the movie was called "Elmer Gantry"

 

[Sam81]

Fountain of living water in my deepest place comes up when I pray...fear cast out...identify with cross of Christ on personal level...life and words of Jesus a BLUEPRINT and not just warm fuzzy feelings...powerful deep revelations in Bible...overwhelming understanding of the vanity of all things but JESUS...crucified to all things and Christ ressurrected in me...Acts as a BLUEPRINT and not just a history...

Yep...I love being hardcore, 100% Jesus in every waking thought, Pentecostal. But there is a cost and not everyone wants to pay it.

Not everyone wants to pray 2 hours a day and under their breath throughout the day. Not everyone wants to be confronted with obstacles that must be overcome to go deeper (its called breakthrough for a reason). Not everone wants to fall to the ground and die to win souls. They wanna sit in church on their butt and edify themselves only. What do they even need the Holy Spirit for? The Holy Spirit descends on those who are heading to die, not on those who want to live. When the spirit drops, you know where you are going. And why. May I go low, may Christ be lifted so high, and I lay my life for the sheep.

I laid it out, but not all can receive it.

 

[allmost]

By what wisdom or power do YOU minister today? is it by human wisdom, accrued knowledge? or is it imparted to you by the Holy Ghost?

1.Corinthians.2.4-5
and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and power that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

1.Corinthians.2.14.
The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God for they are folly to him and he is not able to understand them for they are spiritually discerned.

I go to 2 prayer meetingS a week. And we get visions or words like in 1 cor. 14;25-26 edification

 

[Mark Quayle]

In Acts, God distributed the gifts in the two outpourings. And then only through the hands of an apostle. Only an apostle could impart them. When the apostles died off, only the ministerial gifts remained. Tongues, prophecy. word of knowledge, signs and wonders all ceased.

I agree, but a caveat. God can do whatever he wants, and my understanding is necessarily short. This (cessationism) is not a basic tenet, to me. However, there are some that are more basic, such as the fact that the Word of God can no more be added to, etc. Likewise, there is no pronouncement by God through man that can trump the Word of God. The common phrase for this is, "No new revelation", and that I agree with.

However, God most definitely does open eyes, give wisdom, even speak wisdom beyond the understanding of the speaker (or at least, give the listener a different take on what the speaker said, than what the speaker intended.)

I also do not believe that miracles have ceased. I do think that most, maybe all, on TV and big audiences are quacks. But I have myself much to thank God for along the lines of "miracle".

God can indeed do whatever he wants, and doesn't have to line up with my claims. He owes me nothing.

 

[YeshuaFan]

I agree, but a caveat. God can do whatever he wants, and my understanding is necessarily short. This (cessationism) is not a basic tenet, to me. However, there are some that are more basic, such as the fact that the Word of God can no more be added to, etc. Likewise, there is no pronouncement by God through man that can trump the Word of God. The common phrase for this is, "No new revelation", and that I agree with.

However, God most definitely does open eyes, give wisdom, even speak wisdom beyond the understanding of the speaker (or at least, give the listener a different take on what the speaker said, than what the speaker intended.)

I also do not believe that miracles have ceased. I do think that most, maybe all, on TV and big audiences are quacks. But I have myself much to thank God for along the lines of "miracle".

God can indeed do whatever he wants, and doesn't have to line up with my claims. He owes me nothing.

I think the main contention would be that while those like me who see it ceasing would allow for God to do healings and miracles, none today are gifted by him to do such, nor to give forth any additional revelations from God!