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LoveofTruth

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Having a strong feeling and claiming it is God's voice or a 'word from the Lord" is very unbiblical. Where in scripture are feelings described as the voice of God? I've just shown from scripture the only possible meaning of God's 'voice'. If I'm wrong then please refute it.
We read that God’s voice speaks in the heart

Hebrews 3 - 15. While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts,...”

And this inward witness is spoken of all over scripture and even the word “feel” is connected to it,

Acts 17 - 26. And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27. That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:”

His word speaks to the heart and the scriptures bear witness as well. The two should never contradict and so all scripture is profitable for doctrine correction rebuke instruction
 
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Alithis

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I have received the Holy Spirit speak in my native tongue and an existing foreign tongue. I might have prophesied, Jesus has appeared in my dreams twice and have visions, yet I am a sinner.
then repent
 
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LoveofTruth

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I hear God's voice all the time. But do you know what God's voice is? Charismatics are taught that "my sheep hear my voice" and this is the Lord speaking to you by putting thoughts and feelings into your head, which you can then verbalize into "The Lord told me......". But that is an invention of the charismatic movement. Nowhere in scripture does it say God speaks to us like that.

Let's do a little word study o I’m n God's voice. Perform a search in the bible for the word 'voice', picking out the times it is referring to God's voice, and you will notice that it is either:

1. The literal audible voice of God:

Deut 4:12 "Then the Lord spoke to you from the midst of the fire; you heard the sound of words, but you saw no form—only a voice."

Ezekiel 1:28 "Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell on my face and heard a voice speaking."

Matt 3:17 "and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”"

Mark 9:7 "Then a cloud formed, overshadowing them, and a voice came out of the cloud, “This is My beloved Son, listen to Him!”

John 12:28 "Then a voice came out of heaven: “I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.” So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, “An angel has spoken to Him.”

Acts 9:4 "he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”"

(this is a small selection)​

or
2. God's word recorded in Scripture:

Psalm 103:20 "Mighty in strength, who perform His word, obeying the voice of His word!"

Judges 2:20 "So the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and He said, “Because this nation has transgressed My covenant which I commanded their fathers and has not listened to my voice"

2 Kings 18:12 "because they did not obey the voice of the Lord their God, but transgressed His covenant, even all that Moses the servant of the Lord commanded;

Psalm 106:24-25 "They did not believe in His word, but grumbled in their tents; they did not listen to the voice of the Lord."

Jer 9:13 "The Lord said, “Because they have forsaken My law which I set before them, and have not obeyed My voice nor walked according to it".

Deut 13:18 "if you will listen to the voice of the Lord your God, keeping all His commandments"

Deut 15:5 "if only you listen obediently to the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all this commandment"

Deut 26:14 "I have listened to the voice of the Lord my God; I have done according to all that You have commanded me."

Ex 19:5 "Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant"

Ex 23:21 "But if you truly obey his voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries. " (this is Moses speaking)

Dan 9:10 "nor have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in His teachings which He set before us through His servants the prophets."

1 Sam 12:14 "If you will fear the Lord and serve Him, and listen to His voice and not rebel against the command of the Lord"

1 Sam 12:14 "If you will not listen to the voice of the Lord, but rebel against the command of the Lord,"

Jer 26:12-13 "The Lord sent me to prophesy against this house and against this city all the words that you have heard. Now therefore amend your ways and your deeds and obey the voice of the Lord your God".

Jer 40:2-3 "The Lord your God promised this calamity against this place; and the Lord has brought it on and done just as He promised. Because you people sinned against the Lord and did not listen to His voice, therefore this thing has happened to you".

Psalm 81:11 “But My people did not listen to My voice, And Israel did not obey Me.

Now when Jesus said my "sheep hear my voice" we are told this was a figure of speech (John 10:6). Jesus is not literally a shepherd; we are not literally sheep; and we not literally hear his voice. It is a metaphor. So if it not the audible voice of God, then it must be other option. The Lord's voice is his speaking to us in scripture. Not thoughts popping into our heads.
This is one of your biggest errors here.

When Jesus spoke to the religious people and pharasees he said things like this,

John 8 - 43. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.”

They may have heard him physically speaking but they did not hear his word in thier heart.

We read

John 5 - 24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life... 37. And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.”

To hear God’s voice was not to simply hear Jesus speaking to them physically. All heard him speak this way. No they had to hear in thier heart and receive his word inwardly in the heart. The seed is the word of God sown in the heart.

Jesus said they had not his word abiding in them. They had scriptures and thought they heard Gods word. But they did not have his word in thier hearts and they did not recognize the living Word made flesh standing in front of them.

Many today’s might think they only hear God through scriptures but they are mistaken and may be in danger of being like the Pharisees who did not see with spiritual eyes or hear with spiritual ears.

The word is working in those who believe as Paul said ,

1 Thessalonians 2 - 13. For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.”

Consider these spiritual verses also

Hebrews 4 - 12. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

Luke 8 - 11. Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12. Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.”

Deuteronomy 30 - 10. If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. 11. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13. Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14. But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.”

John 8 - 47. He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.”

Just reading scripture as the Pharisees did or even hearing Jesus speak as they did did not mean they were of God. They needed to hear his word in thier heart and believe.
 
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W2L

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ok here you go,
Huh? You said:

your doing the same thing as the people you accuse.
you teach cessationism
a man made tradition baed upon opinion not scripture.
youve told us numerous times you dont base your opinions on scripture- your words.
which leaves you man made fallible traditions.
Strawman. I dont teach cessationism. Im also not teaching some tradition, im instead making an observation.
 
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Alithis

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Just reading scripture as the Pharisees did or even hearing Jesus speak as they did did not mean they were of God. They needed to hear his word in thier heart and believe.
to believe,, same word pistos, faith .
to take obedient action
 
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Alithis

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Huh? You said:

Strawman. I dont teach cessationism. Im also not teaching some tradition, im instead making an observation.
believe it or not ,when you post in opposition to something you TEACH others your opinions.and you have stated you base your opinions not on scripture but on your opinions.
so everything your saying is scripturless carnal opinion.
man made tradition ,being your own .
then you accused others of teaching man made traditions.
this makes no sense .
you accuse them of a wrong you are by your own confession ,doing yourself.
 
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W2L

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believe it or not ,when you post in opposition to something you TEACH others your opinions.and you have stated you base your opinions not on scripture but on your opinions.
so everything your saying is scripturless carnal opinion.
man made tradition ,being your own .
then you accused others of teaching man made traditions.
this makes no sense .
you accuse them of a wrong you are by your own confession ,doing yourself.
No, you just want to pin some blame on me for stating the obvious.
 
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swordsman1

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Timothy could easily have suffered and been mistreated in the city in different ways. But if all three were together and certain ones were persecuted it could be looked upon as “they” were all mistreated.the severe persecution may have happened to Paul and Silus but this does not eliminate Timothy from being mistreated and suffering as a Christian in Philippi

That is pure speculation. There is no evidence whatsoever that Timothy was mistreated. The only people mistreated in Philippi were Paul and Silas. If you are claiming that Timothy was also mistreated you need to prove it. The "we" who had "suffered and been mistreated in Philippi" in 1 Thes 2:2 was only Paul and Silas, and does not include Timothy. Neither does the "we" in 3:1. So you are basing your theory that Timothy was an apostle on speculation. Timothy was not an apostle. If he was Paul would not have started his other epistles with "Paul, an apostle of Christ and Timothy our brother".

Scripture states that a qualification for being an apostle was to be an eyewitness of the risen Christ. There is not one apostle listed in scripture who could not have met that requirement. And Paul said he was the last person to see Christ. Apostleship was a role that was only for the foundation of the church as Eph 2.20 states.

So I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I'm afraid you are not an apostle.
 
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swordsman1

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I'm afraid you are wrong again....
We read that God’s voice speaks in the heart

Hebrews 3 - 15. While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts,...”

That verse does not say God's voice is a feeling. People can harden their hearts to God's words in scripture.

And this inward witness is spoken of all over scripture and even the word “feel” is connected to it,

Acts 17 - 26. And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27. That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:”

That passage makes no reference to God's voice. And you have mistaken the word 'feel' for a feeling of the mind when it is actual 'feel' in the sense of groping around.
 
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swordsman1

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I'm afraid none of this demonstrates that God's 'voice' is anything other than His audible voice or scripture.....

When Jesus spoke to the religious people and pharasees he said things like this,

John 8 - 43. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.”

They may have heard him physically speaking but they did not hear his word in thier heart.

It says nothing about their heart in that verse. Jesus is just pointing out that they did not understand what He said.

We read

John 5 - 24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life... 37. And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.”

'Voice' in that passage is referring to God's audible voice. We can tell because he adds "nor seen His form".

To hear God’s voice was not to simply hear Jesus speaking to them physically. All heard him speak this way. No they had to hear in thier heart and receive his word inwardly in the heart. The seed is the word of God sown in the heart.

Jesus said they had not his word abiding in them. They had scriptures and thought they heard Gods word. But they did not have his word in thier hearts and they did not recognize the living Word made flesh standing in front of them.

Many today’s might think they only hear God through scriptures but they are mistaken and may be in danger of being like the Pharisees who did not see with spiritual eyes or hear with spiritual ears.

None of that demonstrates that God's voice can be a feeling. We hear God's voice in scripture, and those words then abide in our hearts.

Show me in scripture where God's voice is a feeling.

The word is working in those who believe as Paul said ,

1 Thessalonians 2 - 13. For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.”

Again, no mention of God's 'voice' here. The 'word of God' here is referring to the verbal words spoken by Paul and Silas. Paul was an apostle, and Silas was a prophet (Acts 15:32).

Consider these spiritual verses also

Hebrews 4 - 12. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

No mention of God's voice. The 'word of God' here is referring to scripture.

Luke 8 - 11. Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12. Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.”

No mention of God's voice. The 'word of God' is scripture.

Deuteronomy 30 - 10. If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. 11. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13. Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14. But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.”

The voice of God here is scripture..."If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law,"

John 8 - 47. He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.”

No mention of God's voice. The of 'words of God' here are Jesus' own words. Read the previous verse.
 
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Righttruth

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Wrong, we read of prophets and teachers in the church in Acts 13. We read that Barnabas was one of them then the Holy Ghost sent him forty with Paul this made him an apostle. We see this clearly in Acts 14:14

He was not a “self claim”

Paul also was an apostle after the resurrection and not of men or by men but by Jesus Christ
Are you going to negate the wisdom of Jesus in selecting 12 as apostles out of many disciples? There are only 12 foundations in heaven as revealed in the book of Revelation.
 
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NBB

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Are you going to negate the wisdom of Jesus in selecting 12 as apostles out of many disciples? There are only 12 foundations in heaven as revealed in the book of Revelation.

I think those are the 12 apostles of christ a group that were his disciples, but Paul was also an apostle, and not part of the 12.
 
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LoveofTruth

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I'm afraid none of this demonstrates that God's 'voice' is anything other than His audible voice or scripture.....



It says nothing about their heart in that verse. Jesus is just pointing out that they did not understand what He said.



'Voice' in that passage is referring to God's audible voice. We can tell because he adds "nor seen His form".



None of that demonstrates that God's voice can be a feeling. We hear God's voice in scripture, and those words then abide in our hearts.

Show me in scripture where God's voice is a feeling.



Again, no mention of God's 'voice' here. The 'word of God' here is referring to the verbal words spoken by Paul and Silas. Paul was an apostle, and Silas was a prophet (Acts 15:32).



No mention of God's voice. The 'word of God' here is referring to scripture.



No mention of God's voice. The 'word of God' is scripture.



The voice of God here is scripture..."If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law,"



No mention of God's voice. The of 'words of God' here are Jesus' own words. Read the previous verse.
I marvel at how you cannot see these clear truths and that God works in all believers and speaks to their heart.

When the word of God came to the prophets. God spoke to them and they would speak what they heard and then it was written down after the word of God came to them. We read that they had the Spirit of Christ in them 1 Peter 1.

The word is the seed sown in the heart and God's word speaks inwardly and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. This word is the true Light which lighteth every man ( since Adam) that cometh into the world. John 1:9 KJV.

When Jesus asked the religious pharisees who studied scripture but did not know Gods word in their heart. He ask how they could not understand his speech, even because they could not hear his word. The word of the kingdom is sown in the heart. If they have a hard heart they cannot hear. Jesus is the true Light that lights all men. They had His light to reprove them and yet they hated the light and did not come to the light.

Some have scriptures but not the word of life in them as the pharisees. Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you. But they hardened their hearts.
 
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LoveofTruth

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Are you going to negate the wisdom of Jesus in selecting 12 as apostles out of many disciples? There are only 12 foundations in heaven as revealed in the book of Revelation.
God gave gifts unto men AFTER Jesus resurrected as we read in Ephesians 4:11. These gifts were apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastors and teachers. All these gifts are still needed for the church until we all come into the unity of the faith unto the perfect man.

These were apostles and prophets after the resurrection. The original 12 were before the resurrection ( even though their ministry extends to the edifying of the church as well). They had a specific call to be witnesses of all Jesus did from John until his resurrection and they had to go in and out in all Jesus travels with hi,. Certain apostles, such as, Paul, Brnanbas, Timothy and Silvanus and Titus did not have this qualification. So they were apostles after the resurection and this shows that all such gifts are still for today.
 
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LoveofTruth

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The voice of God here is scripture..."If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law,"
I quoted Deuteronomy which says

"Deuteronomy 30 - 10. If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. 11. For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13. Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14. But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.”"

If you read it carefully God is saying that the commandment he gave to them in stone was not hidden from them. it was not in heaven or beyond the sea. But the word was nigh them, or close to them, even in their heart and mouth.

This shows that this word was already in them as a seed sown , the word sown.

Paul opens this truth and quotes from Deuteronomy 30 in Romans 10 m and says

6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above ) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;"(Romans 10:6-8 KJV)

Paul says an amazing thing here he takes the Old Testament verses in Deuteronomy 30 and is basically saying God has already preached in the heart of every man by Christ who is the word.

Consider Deuteronomy again with Paul's comment on it and put CHRIST in where Paul does in Romans

"Deuteronomy 30 - 10. If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. 11. For this commandment which I command thee this day, CHRIST is not hidden from thee, neither is CHRIST far off. 12. CHRIST is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring CHRIST unto us, that we may hear CHRIST, and do CHRIST? 13. Neither is CHRIST beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring CHRIST unto us, that we may hear CHRIST, and do CHRIST? 14. But the word [CHRIST] is very nigh unto thee [close to thee] , in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do CHRIST.”"

The Gentiles even have the work of the law written in their hearts even though they don't have the scriptures as we read


"14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."(Romans 2:14-16 KJV)

This connects to the great mystery of Christ in you. This mystery was hid from ages and connects all men Jew and gentile to God. And God has always been there and he was in the world and the world was made by him but the world knew him not. This is where men have faith and by faith Christ dwells in their heart. The Hebrews 11 chapter touches on this and shows that faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen. Christ in you is the hope of glory.

"26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:"(Colossians 1:26,27 KJV)

 
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LoveofTruth

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you are basing your theory that Timothy was an apostle on speculation. Timothy was not an apostle.

No, I base it on Paul's own words about himself Silvanus and Timotheous when they all wrote to the church and it is written of them,

"1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians...6 ...neither of you,... when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ."(1 Thessalonians 1;1, 2:6 KJV)

Notice he directly refers to them in that verse and he says "we" plural, )not I _ and he uses the plural "apostles"

There is no denying this to the unbiased reader. It is as clear as the Sun reflecting in every dew drop in the morning, to those who are looking.

Scripture states that a qualification for being an apostle was to be an eyewitness of the risen Christ

and what verse are you quoting in your theory?

I am familiar with one you may be referring to but it does not say what you try to make it say.

. And Paul said he was the last person to see Christ.

Paul said simply that he saw the Lord he actually says many others did also, and they were not all called with apostle gifts. We read

"6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep."(1 Corinthians 15:6 KJV)

So I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I'm afraid you are not an apostle.

I'm not disappointed at all I have been appointed to the work I have been doing. You are in a misunderstanding of some spiritual things and how God works in the body and the gifts after Christ resurrection for the church. But hopefully in time you will come to see and the Lord may give all of us more understanding in here.
 
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