The question cessationists must answer.

[Alithis]

We know the real Holy Spirit, as he is the Spirit of truth, but many in the WOF do not know Him, as their theology did not come from Him!

I dont think there are any wof partaking in this thread ..not sure why you keep bringing them up.
Pointing out an error they may have does not make your own errors right.

 

[W2L]

You sound like a broken record, son! I read what the Apostles wrote every day, and the Holy Spirit teaches me through the words that He inspired them to write. That same Holy Spirit who indwells believers speaks to me 24/7/365 as I commune with Him constantly. And as He speaks to me, He never contradicts what He inspired the Apostles to write.
Amazing how that works, isn't it? He is truly amazing!!!!!

I thought you believed that the the Lord sent apostles? Im asking where are these apostles in the midst of the terrible division in the church. The reason i sound like a broken record is because you dont answer questions i ask. I answered two of yours but you have yet to give me a straight answer.

 

[Alithis]

He did NOT mean that we can raise the dead, forgive sins, grant eternal life as he did, but that we can a greater number in that we can as the Body of Christ here reach out to many more people than he could be localized in a human body!

Ummm yeah... Now go and DO what the lord Jesus said to do ..because the 1st 12 apostles are not here any more to do it.
Not sure how you will achieve that when you oresent a powerless gospel.

 

[LoveofTruth]

People sent by churches are called messengers.

They are messengers which means "apostolos", or apostles, sent ones.

We see this clearly in Acts 13 where Barnabas was either a prophet already (along with some other prophets) or a teacher or both and then the Holy Ghost spoke out in a church gathering and said

"Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. 3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away."(Acts 13:1-3 KJV)

and this being sent out with a message made Barnabas an apostle as we see very clearly in the next chapter Acts 14

"14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,"(Acts 14:14 KJV)

And yes the Lord sends apostles and make them apostles giving them this gift and he also uses the church to send them out and pray for them etc.

Maybe pause and consider these clear truths before you quickly respond

God bless

 

[LoveofTruth]

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[Hillsage]

That's the point, only an apostle can clear up the errors that denominations are teaching. But there are no apostles left. No not one.

I've already PROVED scripturally that the apostles fought and divided in post 1088 which no one on your side had the guts to even address!!!! Why not?

Now show me ONE scripture to prove your OPINION that "only an apostle can clear up the errors". I've never seen one and I'll be surprised if you can produce one. I'm posting scripture in RED and I'm reading opinions that are not backed by much of anything.

 

[W2L]

You said we dont follow apostles, we follow the Lord. But didnt you say God sent you prophets/apostles, and teachers? Do the math, its pretty basic.

 

[W2L]

I've already PROVED scripturally that the apostles fought and divided in post 1088 which no one on your side had the guts to even address!!!! Why not?

Now show me ONE scripture to prove you OPINION that "only an apostle can clear up the errors". I've never seen one and I'll be surprised if you can produce one. I'm posting scripture in RED and I'm reading opinions that are not backed by much of anything.

Im sorry, i was under the impression that God sent the modern church apostles, prophets and teachers. So God didn't send the modern church apostles or prophets?

 

[LoveofTruth]

I've already PROVED scripturally that the apostles fought and divided in a post which no one on your side had the guts to even address!!!! Why not?

Now show me ONE scripture to prove you OPINION that "only an apostle can clear up the errors". I've never seen one and I'll be surprised if you can produce one. I'm posting scripture in RED and I'm reading opinions that are not backed by much of anything.

I am an apostolic worker and have been for many years. Planting churches and setting in order things in churches to God's order and preaching the gospel .

Apostles can help top set in order the things that are lacking and we see Paul doing this as well as other apostles. They will often have a specific message for the churches they are sent.

But some today who claim to be apostle gifts are false apostles and exalt themselves, devour believers, take of them, smite them on the face in false authority, and mind earthly things, who seek their own and not the Lord's.

 

[Alithis]

Again, Jesus is talking about Israel, he was referring to dividing those who believe in Him from those who dont. This verse has nothing to do with dividing the Church. He knew many Jews would not believe in Him, thats what he means by causing division. THIS IS NOT TALKING ABOUT DIVIDING THE CHURCH HOWEVER.

Yup..and you dont believe in him.
Sure you indentify as christian
But if you believed him you go and do as he said ..
Youd be his disciple.
A disciple learns to become like his master ...
If we are not becoming like Jesus to do as he did..then whose disciple are we

 

[LoveofTruth]

You said we dont follow apostles, we follow the Lord. But didnt you say God sent you prophets/apostles, and teachers? Do the math, its pretty basic.

Paul said to follow him as he followed Christ.

We also read of overseer/elders who the believers should yield to for they watch for their souls.

Elders (plural) in every church are very beneficial to the body and helpful, particularly those who labour in word and doctrine. Babes are unskillful in the word of righteousness but they can still grow in this as they are allowed to function in a gathering and to wait on the Lord for ministry and gifts. .

 

[W2L]

I've already PROVED scripturally that the apostles fought and divided in post 1088 which no one on your side had the guts to even address!!!! Why not?

Now show me ONE scripture to prove your OPINION that "only an apostle can clear up the errors". I've never seen one and I'll be surprised if you can produce one. I'm posting scripture in RED and I'm reading opinions that are not backed by much of anything.

By the way, the apostles did have disagreements at first but they overcame them quickly. What happened with modern apostles? They supposedly have been here for the last 2000 years, whats the problem? They cant fix their disagreements?

 

[Hillsage]

What are you saying here?

I posted that, and you answered 10 minutes later. Go back and read it more than once, because I' going to assume you just glossed over it. What I write, just may call for deeper thinking. I believe I wrote it well enough. Unless others here feel the same way you do.

Read my signature line at the bottom of my posts.

 

[Alithis]

You quoted from the Holman bible. In your bible you will notice the whole section is placed in square brackets with the footnote "Other manuscripts omit bracketed text".

The most popular and respected bibles versions have the following:

• NASB Whole section is placed in square brackets with the footnote "Later manuscripts add vv 9-20"
  
  
• ESV Whole section place in square brackets with the footnote "Some of the earliest manuscripts do not include 16:9–20"
  
  
• NIV Whole section is placed in italics below a dividing line with the heading "The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20."
  
  
• RSV Has the following footnote "Mark 16:20 Some of the most ancient authorities bring the book to a close at the end of verse 8. One authority concludes the book by adding after verse 8 the following: But they reported briefly to Peter and those with him all that they had been told. And after this, Jesus himself sent out by means of them, from east to west, the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation. Other authorities include the preceding passage and continue with verses 9–20. In most authorities verses 9–20 follow immediately after verse 8; a few authorities insert additional material after verse 14"

But what matters is not whether it appears in your bible, but whether it was written by Mark or by someone else at a later date. The overwhelming consensus among bible scholars is that it is not Mark. The ancient Greek manuscripts in fact have 5 different endings of Mark!

But even if you assume that passage was written by Mark, the prophecy doesn't say believers would continue have those abilities throughout all time. In fact two of the four abilities are conspicuous by their absence today - no doubt because being immune from deadly snake bites and drinking poison are considerably harder to counterfeit than the other two!

Here we go ...as predictable aa playing the blasphemy card.
Cant base the cessationist on any sound unambiiguious scripture.. So next trick..start attacking the authenticity of scripture.
Well you take that path..it will keep you right where you began.well rooted in OPINION.

I Will just carry on believing and obeying the lord Jesus.

 

[LoveofTruth]

By the way, the apostles did have disagreements at first but they overcame them quickly. What happened with modern apostles? They supposedly have been here for the last 2000 years, whats the problem? They cant fix their disagreements?

some apostles today have been re-named as missionaries. But the few true workers in this area are often not as the world would expect them to be

Paul said of apostles

"9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. 10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. 11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; 12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: 13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day. 14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. 15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me."(1 Cor 4:9-16 KJV)

But today we see many false apostles who would almost be the exact opposite of many of these statements.

 

[W2L]

--+

Yup..and you dont believe in him.
Sure you indentify as christian
But if you believed him you go and do as he said ..
Youd be his disciple.
A disciple learns to become like his master ...
If we are not becoming like Jesus to do as he did..then whose disciple are we

Wrong, i dont believe what churches are teaching about Him. I dont believe in modern apostles or prophets either. I have already said why.

 

[Deborah D]

I thought you believed that the the Lord sent apostles? Im asking where are these apostles in the midst of the terrible division in the church. The reason i sound like a broken record is because you dont answer questions i ask. I answered two of yours but you have yet to give me a straight answer.

I honestly have no idea why you're asking this, but I will indulge you. First let's see what the scriptures have to say about the spiritual gifts.

1 Cor. 12: 27-31--(HCSB)

Now you are the body of Christ, and individual members of it. And God has placed these in the church:
first apostles, second prophets,
third teachers, next miracles,
then gifts of healing, helping,
managing, various kinds of languages.
Are all apostles? Are all prophets?
Are all teachers? Do all do miracles?
Do all have gifts of healing?
Do all speak in other languages?
Do all interpret?
But desire the greater gifts. And I will show you an even better way.
​

Why do you think that apostles would have anything to do with solving the problem of divisions between Christians? What in the world are you getting at? Now, I've answered as best I can. You're almost making my brain hurt!

 

[W2L]

some apostles today have been re-named as missionaries. But the few true workers in this area are often not as the world would expect them to be

Paul said of apostles

"9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. 10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. 11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; 12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: 13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day. 14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. 15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me."(1 Cor 4:9-16 KJV)

But today we see many false apostles who would almost be the exact opposite of many of these statements.

The apostles of today are not fixing church division? Why not? They sure had alot to say about it in scripture.

 

[Alithis]

That same Holy Spirit who indwells believers speaks to me

... the same holy spirit that rose Christ from the dead dwells in you.... Paul wrote.
Not a different spirit..the same one... And all that gloriously implies

 

[Deborah D]

You said we dont follow apostles, we follow the Lord. But didnt you say God sent you prophets/apostles, and teachers? Do the math, its pretty basic.

WHAT???