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The purpose of adhering to gender roles

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cantata

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Pink is a feminine color, so no I wouldn't give it to a boy. Loading up your child on feminine items is a wonderful way to pervert his identity.

But this is my point - pink = feminine is 100% a social construct. See this advice column from 1918:

picture1.jpg


[source]

So am I right in thinking that you regard socially constructed gender roles to be equally as important as "biological" ones?
 
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PassionFruit

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After coming out of my little hiatus of self reflecting I decided it was now time for me to start posting again. Hi cantata! :wave:

Now for the topic at hand not that it would really matter, but there was point in history where pink was considered a masculine color. Such as the link would indicate.


We do not, however, yet fully understand the gender onnotations. We have noted pink use in paintings and variety of observations. At one point pink was considered more of a boy's color, as a watered-down red, which is a fierce color) and blue was morefor girls. The associate of pink with bold, dramatic red clearly affected its use for boys. An American newspaper in 1914 advised mothers, "If you like the color note on the little one's garments, use pink for the boy and blue for the girl, if you are a follower of convention." [The Sunday Sentinal, March 29, 1914.]
http://histclo.com/gender/col/col-pink.html

Also here is a link from Sociological Images, which has paintings which indicates that it was acceptable for boys to wear pink as well dresses.
http://contexts.org/socimages/2008/12/21/men-in-pink-two-velasquez-paintings/

This is what is known as gendering.
 
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mpok1519

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No, I was making a comparison of your theory of doing what you want. Its a very selfish self centered idea because to survive there are many things we need to do that we don't want. If a woman dosen't want to take care of her kids anymore does that mean she dosen;t have to simply because she dosen't want to? Again it is this selfish attitude that is hurting so many familys today because husbands and wives think more about always doing what they want instead of what is needed.

Most divorced families still take care of their children, and their families are healthy, and successful individuals. I'm proof.

As a christian im disappointed hearing that from a professing christian. Since we are told to make many sacrifices in the gospel. very saddening

Usually those who ae unhappiest of all are the ones hurting most of society.


Because you don't understand the awful implications of just "doing what you want" has on people. It makes justification of divorce and family turmoil much more easy. A true loving person makes sacrifices even at the expense of personal happiness. Even parents tell their own children life isn't always about having fun. Im sure you understand that?

Doing what you don't want has an even uglier implication on society. Are you suggesting that a couple should stay together, no matter how much fighting, abuse, unhappiness, conflict, depression and destruction goes on in the relationship? Sure, couples need to work their problems out, but sometimes, "working the problems out" has worse implications than just leaving the problem(said wife or husband), not on their lives, but also on their children as well. Also, attacking my faith as a Christian, feels a lil weird on your part.


No im not, because 1. Its against the Gospel and 2. Its the husbands job to support and provide for his family. And yes, westerm women of today have become unnaturally abrasive because of our societys loss of chivalry and gender roles. Rather than being equal, women file divorces at a much more alarming rate than men do and this is because of the feminist proproganda that is defiling millions of western women of today. it teaches them to be selfish, abrasive, self centered and non family oriented. War was declared against the husband role and after Abortion was legalized it was then delcared on their own children. What effect do u think that will have on familys later on?

Sooooo, if your wife suddenly had a job offer of a million(, no, make that three billion a year, or, howabout President of the World?) a year but required you to stay home and take care of the kids, youuuu, uhhhh, wouldn't let her take the job? And if she refused, would you bring the wrath of god down upon her subordinate female self? you could secure the future of yourself and your children if such offer was made, but you wouldn't allow it to happen because of what you think the Bible says? Mister, you gotta be kidding me! You think Sarah Palin's husband had religious implications on his own faith bc of the possibility his wife would become more powerful/influenial/wealthier than he would? Well, this is all just a buncha hootenany hogwash gibberjabber shenanigans isnt it? You think a man MUST be more powerful/providing for their family than the man? So what is a man to do when their counterpart becomes stronger than they? Submit and pray to God She has mercy on their souls? lol lol And don't blame feminism and abortion and all of this on anything; I think you are just jealous because women now have a competitive edge in the workforce, and it intimidates men like us just because theres more chips on the table and more joker cards in the deck. I say bring the challenge on; women deserve to be in the workforce as much as men.


Its really sad a professing christian is saying this, saying that young children need to be taught about sex. And then you wonder why teen STDs and pregnancys are so high. Schools telling women just to take contraception without even bringing up the emotional issues that sex before marriage has on childrens innocense and well being.

Sex is biological in nature; young boys and girls would find out how to have sex even if no one told them how. Also, you might be thinking young as in five years old; I knew of sex around seven, but my mother was more liberal than most. In fact, she HAD to teach me about sex before the older girls tried to. lol oh goodness it was so funny. But honestly, now, I can say that because I learned of what sex was, and how human reproduction works, I have a greater respect and love for females, and how they carry a great unsung burden within society males may never understand. Again, you attack my faith but you only fool yourself.


Im sorry but Im not gonna trust a person who says that a person of strong faith can leave his family. No true man of faith would leave his family. And your talking to me about who constitutes a real man?

It has nothing to do with faith; one of the strongest and most dillusion-filled faiths can leave his family for whatever reason his faith tells him to. But my parents divorced mutually; no one left each other; my father still supported me, and even paid for college. Faith las little to do with it; its how much you love your family. And my family loves me, and my family is just fine and functional.

And feminism is not about equal rights. Its about the deconstuction of moral values and family values, as well as Christianity and the ridding of God from familys.

Yes; women voting, working, owning land and having a say in government is the work of satan! geeze....criminy....

I'm tired and done with deconstructing your irrational, fearful, and biggoted arguments....

TKOd bc you seem to not know what people are capable of. you think divorced families cant be functional, but they can.

oh yeah. And you attacked my faith....

not cool man....

not cool.
 
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CreedIsChrist

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Most divorced families still take care of their children, and their families are healthy, and successful individuals. I'm proof.

Well at least now I know why your defending divorce and feminism at least. And no, divorce has a bad impact on society. Over half of all inmates came from broken familys. Your ideals are breeding more crime and dismay into society.


Usually those who ae unhappiest of all are the ones hurting most of society.

I feel sorry for people who constantly need to think about themselves 24/7 and their own fullfillments as being truly happy. Again, Jesus says why sell your soul in order to gain the whole world


Doing what you don't want has an even uglier implication on society. Are you suggesting that a couple should stay together, no matter how much fighting, abuse, unhappiness, conflict, depression and destruction goes on in the relationship? Sure, couples need to work their problems out, but sometimes, "working the problems out" has worse implications than just leaving the problem(said wife or husband), not on their lives, but also on their children as well. Also, attacking my faith as a Christian, feels a lil weird on your part.


Unless in cases of adultry or physical violence then no, divorce is not permisable(and either way it should be a seperation with a cooling down peroid first), as the Gospel clearly states. I attacked you on your view because its contrary to the Gospel. Yet you profess to be christian. I redened the very sad part of your post however. I just can't believe a professing christian can justify leaving their own wife and kids at the expense of working things out. Im sorry, but thats not the christian thing to do and I feel sorry for any parents who put their children through that because of selfish things like the underlined.


Sooooo, if your wife suddenly had a job offer of a million(, no, make that three billion a year, or, howabout President of the World?) a year but required you to stay home and take care of the kids, youuuu, uhhhh, wouldn't let her take the job? And if she refused, would you bring the wrath of god down upon her subordinate female self? you could secure the future of yourself and your children if such offer was made, but you wouldn't allow it to happen because of what you think the Bible says? Mister, you gotta be kidding me! You think Sarah Palin's husband had religious implications on his own faith bc of the possibility his wife would become more powerful/influenial/wealthier than he would? Well, this is all just a buncha hootenany hogwash gibberjabber shenanigans isnt it? You think a man MUST be more powerful/providing for their family than the man? So what is a man to do when their counterpart becomes stronger than they? Submit and pray to God She has mercy on their souls? lol lol And don't blame feminism and abortion and all of this on anything; I think you are just jealous because women now have a competitive edge in the workforce, and it intimidates men like us just because theres more chips on the table and more joker cards in the deck. I say bring the challenge on; women deserve to be in the workforce as much as men.


No, im not concerned with such worldly things as money. Its something used to help support us, that is all. I'd prefer a decent wife over a million dolloar maker who has no idea how to raise her family and thinks about herself 24/7. Do you ever notice how miserable alot of rich people are?

Jealous? Why would I be jealous of something like that? Your the one trying to justify a husband running out on his family, not me. Your the one telling me its ok for a wife to do whatever she feels like at the expense of her family. I feel sorry for such people and make an effort that this type of proproganda dosen't enter in other peoples ears.


Sex is biological in nature; young boys and girls would find out how to have sex even if no one told them how. Also, you might be thinking young as in five years old; I knew of sex around seven, but my mother was more liberal than most. In fact, she HAD to teach me about sex before the older girls tried to. lol oh goodness it was so funny. But honestly, now, I can say that because I learned of what sex was, and how human reproduction works, I have a greater respect and love for females, and how they carry a great unsung burden within society males may never understand. Again, you attack my faith but you only fool yourself.


If you truly had respect of females you would not be justifying divorce and men or women running out on their familys.

Fool myself? Well apparently verses like Mark 10:11-12 fool you obviously. Im not attacking your faith, im bringing up something that you support that is againsts Christs own words. Or are you special and that dosen't apply to you?


It has nothing to do with faith; one of the strongest and most dillusion-filled faiths can leave his family for whatever reason his faith tells him to. But my parents divorced mutually; no one left each other; my father still supported me, and even paid for college. Faith las little to do with it; its how much you love your family. And my family loves me, and my family is just fine and functional.

Please, your already in your early twenties and divorced. Your ideals are not working for you as you seem to like to think. Faith has much to do with it because there is a standard of truth one must try to follow and have as their guide. Its the people who profess to be christians and yet make claims that it dosen't apply to them that are the hypocrites. Truth is universal and applys to everyone

Yes; women voting, working, owning land and having a say in government is the work of satan! geeze....criminy....

I'm tired and done with deconstructing your irrational, fearful, and biggoted arguments....

TKOd bc you seem to not know what people are capable of. you think divorced families cant be functional, but they can.

oh yeah. And you attacked my faith....

not cool man....

not cool.

Id rather be a bigot than devoid of truth. DIvorced familys functional? Are you in that much denial? How can a family be functional when there not even together to see their children anymore barely? Or if their lucky shuffling their children back and forth once or twice a month. you call that functional? And lets not even begin at the damage divorce does to children. But people like you seem to be too selfish to even think about those things because your so concerned with yourself you don't see the amount of damage you do to society.
 
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cantata

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Surely it's not divorce itself, but the reasons that people stop loving one another, which leads to broken families.

Perhaps the problem lies with the comparatively recent invention of the nuclear family. If extended families lived together, I would imagine that marital strife would have less of an impact on children, who would have aunts, uncles, grandparents, and other relatives close at hand to pick up the pieces.
 
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CreedIsChrist

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Surely it's not divorce itself, but the reasons that people stop loving one another, which leads to broken families.

Perhaps the problem lies with the comparatively recent invention of the nuclear family. If extended families lived together, I would imagine that marital strife would have less of an impact on children, who would have aunts, uncles, grandparents, and other relatives close at hand to pick up the pieces.


True love cannot be broken. What God has put together let no man put asunder. Any arguement can be worked out in a couple that truly loves themselves.
 
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cantata

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True love cannot be broken. What God has put together let no man put asunder. Any arguement can be worked out in a couple that truly loves themselves.

This is clearly false. That's all there is to say.

The only way you can claim that "true love cannot be broken" is to define true love as love which is never broken, and retroactively revoke the claims to true love of any couple whose relationship ends. I guess you can do that if you want, but if you do, then your statement is tautological, and you haven't proved anything except that some marriages are not built upon true love. Which means that divorce is imminent. So what was your point, again?
 
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CreedIsChrist

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This is clearly false. That's all there is to say.

The only way you can claim that "true love cannot be broken" is to define true love as love which is never broken, and retroactively revoke the claims to true love of any couple whose relationship ends. I guess you can do that if you want, but if you do, then your statement is tautological, and you haven't proved anything except that some marriages are not built upon true love. Which means that divorce is imminent. So what was your point, again?


Maybe if people didn't become so calloused by secular society true love and caring would shine forth from them.

Its possible in everyone, but As Christ says the seed gets choked out by the thorns and thistles(the wordly things in life)
 
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brightmorningstar

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To cantata,
This is clearly false. That's all there is to say.
This is clearly true. You must remember that this is a Christian based forum so there will be Christians who know its true making their point. All you can do is say why you disagree or we merely have contradiction.


The only way you can claim that "true love cannot be broken" is to define true love as love which is never broken, and retroactively revoke the claims to true love of any couple whose relationship ends. I guess you can do that if you want, but if you do, then your statement is tautological, and you haven't proved anything except that some marriages are not built upon true love. Which means that divorce is imminent. So what was your point, again? [/quote]
We who believe in Jesus Christ can show what true love is,
7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for[c] our sins. – 1 John 4

Can you show us how you define true love?
 
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cantata

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To cantata,
This is clearly true. You must remember that this is a Christian based forum so there will be Christians who know its true making their point. All you can do is say why you disagree or we merely have contradiction.

I disagree because clearly love sometimes dies. It's sad, but these things happen.

We who believe in Jesus Christ can show what true love is,
7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for[c] our sins. – 1 John 4


So true love involves killing your children? In that case, it would appear that only a very few marriages are founded on true love.

Can you show us how you define true love?

I don't. I am aware that love exists; I do not see what the modifier "true" adds to it.
 
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mpok1519

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Well at least now I know why your defending divorce and feminism at least. And no, divorce has a bad impact on society. Over half of all inmates came from broken familys. Your ideals are breeding more crime and dismay into society.

I'm defending peoples' right to do as they will and choose; divorce has had a positive impact on society as well, and not only negative impacts; now women arent afraid to go out into the world and make something of themselves, like having a CAREER.

You're one of the ONLY people in the world that thinks women shouldn't have a career of their own. lol Oh wait, all those religious whackos with bombs on their chests believe what you believe. Isnt it ironic? Dontchya think? =P Your ideals are breeding more crime and dismay in the world bro; its the 20th century; get with the program! Stop living in the dark ages

I feel sorry for people who constantly need to think about themselves 24/7 and their own fullfillments as being truly happy. Again, Jesus says why sell your soul in order to gain the whole world

What, you've never heard of be all that you can be? Do what you want to do? Do and be anything your heart desires? We tell our children these kinds of things a positive reinforcement. Would you be one of those that tells kids "Do what OTHER people want you to do. do what your religion tells you to do. Dont ever make decisions for yourself." Yes, sell your soul for the world; but I don't see it like that. See, the world is ephemeral, and won't be here forever. But I thought our souls lasted forever. It seems like one might wanna hold onto their soul, because the world is getting a lil too overcrowded, polluted and smelly anyway. Nah, I think I'll keep my soul. And I'm sure Jesus would agree nowadays, cuz I don't think Jesus appreciated the fact that there are crazy and idiotic people out there, not to mention nuclear fallout, acid rain, war, etc....


Unless in cases of adultry or physical violence then no, divorce is not permisable(and either way it should be a seperation with a cooling down peroid first), as the Gospel clearly states. I attacked you on your view because its contrary to the Gospel. Yet you profess to be christian. I redened the very sad part of your post however. I just can't believe a professing christian can justify leaving their own wife and kids at the expense of working things out. Im sorry, but thats not the christian thing to do and I feel sorry for any parents who put their children through that because of selfish things like the underlined.

Well, not the whole world fits into your little tiny heart-shaped box of irrationality. lol Oooookay, well, trust me, you don't need to feel sorry for anything. Our family is fine, we turned out great; my mother is a successful judge, and my father is a self-made millionaire. He would not have been able to achieve this had he not lived on the west-coast where his profession is widely needed. She would not have been able to get her foot in the door if she had moved to the west-coast. MY mother also divorced my father because he had an alcohol problem as well. This is a problem only he could have taken care of, and she was fearful his drinking might somehow hurt me and my brother. He's sober now, after twenty-years of never touching a drink, and now, he has moderated his drinking responsibly. you have nothign positive to say tho

No, im not concerned with such worldly things as money. Its something used to help support us, that is all. I'd prefer a decent wife over a million dolloar maker who has no idea how to raise her family and thinks about herself 24/7. Do you ever notice how miserable alot of rich people are?

Many poor people are miserable too. Money has nothing to do with how happy one is. But I find it astonishing that you wouldn't let your wife take the job. lol funny thing is, I bet she would take the job regardless of what you say or forbid! You could probably beat her with the bible until shes black and blue with the lord's wrath, but as soon as you say "No honey, its my job to make more money in the household," she'd say "Too bad, I'm taking this job whether you, god or anyone else forbids it." lol Well, at least thats what a LOGICAL and SANE person would do. You honestly think your wife would pass up the opportunity to secure a healthy and happy future with a well-aying career of her own just because you would protest? Live in the real world buddy. lol you act as if because a woman has a job it DESTROYS her ability to raise and communicate efficiently with their family. You sir, live in a strange and negative world;

Jealous? Why would I be jealous of something like that? Your the one trying to justify a husband running out on his family, not me. Your the one telling me its ok for a wife to do whatever she feels like at the expense of her family. I feel sorry for such people and make an effort that this type of proproganda dosen't enter in other peoples ears.


At the expense? What if it is for the BETTER of the family? You act as if it MUST be the man making the money, and the women take care of the domestic responsibilites. THIS IS SEXIST. Very, very sexist. You act as if there are NO functional divorced families out there. You act as if all divorces lead to broken and impoverish homes; you're wrong. lol you couldnt be more wrong! Just because one has a penis doesn't make them any better than someone without a penis....the bible isnt supposed to be sexist y'know....

Fool myself? Well apparently verses like Mark 10:11-12 fool you obviously. Im not attacking your faith, im bringing up something that you support that is againsts Christs own words. Or are you special and that dosen't apply to you?

Dont act as if you actually know what the Bible says; no one does, and people have been killing and murdering and oppressing millions for eons for what they think the Bible says; you sir, are no different. You don't know what the Bible says, and neither does anyone else. Its ALL up to personal interpretation,


Please, your already in your early twenties and divorced. Your ideals are not working for you as you seem to like to think. Faith has much to do with it because there is a standard of truth one must try to follow and have as their guide. Its the people who profess to be christians and yet make claims that it dosen't apply to them that are the hypocrites. Truth is universal and applys to everyone

I'm not divorced; my parents are. lol You, havn't been paying attention have you? heh Lemmie guess, bc my parent got divorced, I'm suddenly this thing that has ideals that aren't working? You're the one whos admitting being a biggot and sexist; but somehow, life isnt working out for me? lol ooookay. You're the one who thinks divorce leads to dysfunction; but lemmie tell you what REALLY is dysfunctional; sexism and bigotry. Those are true dysfunctions of a troubled mind.



Id rather be a bigot than devoid of truth. DIvorced familys functional? Are you in that much denial? How can a family be functional when there not even together to see their children anymore barely? Or if their lucky shuffling their children back and forth once or twice a month. you call that functional? And lets not even begin at the damage divorce does to children. But people like you seem to be too selfish to even think about those things because your so concerned with yourself you don't see the amount of damage you do to society.


Ooooh yes! My ways of tolerance anti-bigotry and anti-sexism have SUCH a negative impact on the functional half of society!!!!!!!! ahhhhh! lol not all divorced coupled 'shuffle' their kids; its called driving them, or flying them, to their destination, so they can be with their mother or father. I don't see it as shuffling because I don't have a mind enough to objectify people as a deck of cars passing with the dealer button. If your wife divorced you tomorrow, you wouldn't either.

gimmie a break. The divorce rate is like what 50% now? you HONESTLY think that half of the united states lives in poverish, negative dysfunction? don't knock divorce buddy....it could still happen to you. then you'll just have to adjust.

Dude, you're blind to the obvious and inherant truths observable with just a little bit of open perception a keen eye and a little common sense. You suggest my family is dysfunctional, but my family are all college grads, successful and happy individuals, but yet, we're dysfunctional?
 
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PassionFruit

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Aww, come on now, mpok1519 don't you know. All women are good for is keeping house and popping out babies. We shouldn't want to have careers of our own because if we do we're just mean and selfish women bent on destroying the family.

See this guide.

housewife.jpg


Remember ladies, your life and your whole identity is tied to your husband and your children. :thumbsup:
 
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angellica

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Aww, come on now, mpok1519 don't you know. All women are good for is keeping house and popping out babies. We shouldn't want to have careers of our own because if we do we're just mean and selfish women bent on destroying the family.

See this guide.

housewife.jpg


Remember ladies, your life and your whole identity is tied to your husband and your children. :thumbsup:
That article may not be true:

http://www.snopes.com/language/document/goodwife.asp
 
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PassionFruit

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angellica

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The link indicated that the picture was a fabrication, but doesn't say the article itself is. Perhaps it is false, I showed it to a few of my friends and they think it was a spoof.
Yeah, that's why I say may not instead of saying flat out that it was fake. But I think it is. (hopefully)
 
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