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The purpose of adhering to gender roles

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Everlasting33

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Creed,

Its important to remember that individuals can be "true" Christians and not agree with those verses. Your way of seeing things is not the right and only way. We all come from different backgrounds and it would be foolish to believe that we all will agree on the same thing.

But it is important to not condemn those who think differently and even though we may disagree, it is wise not to put each other down and have this "holier than thou" attitude.
 
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CreedIsChrist

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Creed,

Its important to remember that individuals can be "true" Christians and not agree with those verses. Your way of seeing things is not the right and only way. We all come from different backgrounds and it would be foolish to believe that we all will agree on the same thing.

But it is important to not condemn those who think differently and even though we may disagree, it is wise not to put each other down and have this "holier than thou" attitude.


How can someone be a christian and not agree with the Gospel? Its a contradiction in terms. As revelation says whoever takes away from the words of the book let him be accursed with the plaugues of the earth. people are forming God into who they want him to be(idolism) rather than what he truly is. That is dishonest and hypocritical. Jesus was very clear about doing the will of his Father. Your either with Christs words or you are against them, as Jesus said "you are either with me or against me". If they have a problem with those verses they have a problem with God's word, not other christians. Its quite clear that mpok has a big problem with God's word and considers the words of the prophets just dead people. That is not what the early christians believed or the apostles or Jesus himself. no one is special where the word of the God or the law dosen't apply to them,, in fact by calling yourself a christian would make you even more susceptable to the law because we must be an example to others and have the responsbility to preach the Gospel to others.
 
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CreedIsChrist

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It's quite sad when people have to resort to personal attacks on other people and make stupid assumptions about their lives. It just shows some deep seeded insecurity.

Passion, I have seen many post of you where you attack other people personally. Calling other people bigots, narrowminded, or delusional is considered a personal attack. So the same standard condemns yourself.
 
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PassionFruit

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Passion, I have seen many post of you where you attack other people personally. Calling other people bigots, narrowminded, or delusional is considered a personal attack. So the same standard condemns yourself.


Show me some posts where I called someone a bigot, and said someone was delusional? You can point it out to me, I'm big enough to admit that there may have been times when I resorted to personal attacks because I spoke without thinking first. But I would never make judgments about a person's life based on what they believe.

But you sit here and condemn feminists and feminism without understanding or knowing anything about it. You never really presented an actual argument against why you hate feminists. What really gets me is that since I consider myself a feminist, but I have never destroyed anyone's family, I've never murdered a baby, I've never brainwashed women into getting a career, never brainwashed a woman into getting a divorced, and all those other things you seem to think feminists are responsible for. It's rather insulting, because I feel you're essentially saying that I've done all these things. You just go on bashing it, thus making yourself look like a bigot.

And what I see you do is attack other peoples personal lives. Making judgments about their marriages, and trying to make judgments about their lives. What position are you in to do this?
 
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CreedIsChrist

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Show me some posts where I called someone a bigot, and said someone was delusional? You can point it out to me, I'm big enough to admit that there may have been times when I resorted to personal attacks because I spoke without thinking first. But I would never make judgments about a person's life based on what they believe.

But you sit here and condemn feminists and feminism without understanding or knowing anything about it. You never really presented an actual argument against why you hate feminists. What really gets me is that since I consider myself a feminist, but I have never destroyed anyone's family, I've never murdered a baby, I've never brainwashed women into getting a career, never brainwashed a woman into getting a divorced, and all those other things you seem to think feminists are responsible for. It's rather insulting, because I feel you're essentially saying that I've done all these things. You just go on bashing it, thus making yourself look like a bigot.

And what I see you do is attack other peoples personal lives. Making judgments about their marriages, and trying to make judgments about their lives. What position are you in to do this?


You already just have. And whether you like it or not, you still do judge others. If people didn't judge we wouldn't have opinions. No I attack todays feminist proproganda as a whole and the effects it has caused on the general stability of marriage and children. Again when we see divorce rates rise from 15%-40% in barely 20 years then its gonna be under great scrutiny. If you consider that a personal attack, then that is your problem not mine, I could consider your attacks on christianity as a personal attack too if I applied your same conclusion. If you cannot handle the criticism of your own movement then that tends to be a bad sign

Also pulling out the feminists movements dirty laundry does not make someone a bigot, in fact it makes people more informed about it at least, even at the expense of raving left wingists like mpok or cantanta. It seems most liberals can't handle criticism of their ideals and try to shut out the free speech of those who are brave enough to step foward. I can't tell you the amount of Death Threats people like Phyliss Shaffly and threats of hatred Dr Laura Schlingser have gotton simply because they were both feminists who realized what the movement truly was. Here are some links if people want to read to at least get a grasp of what the movement really has been doing and that systematic destruction of todays familys and their threat to free speech and the helpless unborn. And don't worry you can do in in secret where you won't have to worry about seeming politically correct to others *cough*

http://www.eagleforum.org/topics/Feminism/index.shtml


http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/1997/dec97/psrdec97.html
http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2008/june08/08-06-11.html
http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/2006/feb06/psrfeb06.html

http://www.raleightavern.org/Rlghtvrn.htm
http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=2384.1083.84.0
 
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Braunwyn

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It is clear that god created woman as a helpmeet for the man, read Genesis.
I would love to hear what it is you need help with, CIC.

Timothy states that women are to be modest quiet and keepers of the home. He also states that husbands are not to abuse their wives. A husband cannot force a woman to be something else. Trying to force a feminist into being a decent woman would take a miracle.
That is so rude that it's unbelievable. The filth that comes out of your mouth never fails to amaze me.
 
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geekgirlkelli

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I would love to hear what it is you need help with, CIC.


That is so rude that it's unbelievable. The filth that comes out of your mouth never fails to amaze me.

I had read that post of his earlier and was going to reply with something similar.
 
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CreedIsChrist

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I would love to hear what it is you need help with, CIC.

Well, Ill go through the bible to see whats God's role for women is

We see in Genesis that God intented to create woman as a helpmeet for man as he says in Genesis 2:18


Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a help meet suitable for him." - Genesis 2:18

So we see God created woman as a supporting and nurturing role in the order of creation.

We see in 1 Corinthians 11:9 that woman was indeed created for mans sake. Due to her supporting and childbearing role in the world as the Apostle Paul says

for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake - 1 Corinthians 11:9

We see regards to man and woman as regards to the trinity in Corinthians 11:13

Now I want you to realize that the Messiah is the head of every man, and man is the head of the woman, and God is the head of the Messiah. - 1 Corinthians 11:3

Now this dosen't mean oppression or like the woman is on a leech. But rather shows the nature of God's order of both genders in regards to the trinity. Just because Christ is second of the Trinity dosen't make him any less than God himself, as they are equal in essence, but still God is head of Christ as Man is head of Woman. In general human nature this can be seen between wife and husband, where husband is head provider and head of household, while the wife is caretaker, childbearer and supporter. Neither role makes anyone less than the other but the roles still exist just as they exist in the Trinity. Both men and women respond to authority in different ways and It was deemed by God that the husband be the main authority of the family. Most husbands and wives naturally fall into this role, so it is clear this is written on our heart and what God intended. As God says in Genesis

To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you." - Genesis 3:16

So by Gods plan, he wants womans desire to be for their husbands and proprogate the family. Now any modern western woman would take this as outright sexism. But then again she is ignorant to the plan of God nor has guidance from the Holy Spirit so she cannot understand the true meaning of this. Job tells us

"Whenever a woman is in labor she has pain, because her hour has come; but when she gives birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish because of the joy that a child has been born into the world - Job 16:21

This shows that a womans joy is in her children. And as we can see a child is priceless to a good decent mother and is the center of her world. No job or worldly things will ever replace the love and importance she has for her children, unless she is ungodly.

We show through Timothy that a main womans role is her bearing of Children as he says in 1 Timothy 2:15

But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint - 1 Timothy 2:15

This shows that the bearing of children is a most important role because humans would not be able to propagate. We see a woman is preserved through her bearing of children thus showing God's plan

How are women supposed to act in marriage and in general. Well lets look at what Peter says

In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior - 1 Peter 3:1

This here shows the power of a true God fearing woman. Because just by her submissiveness and dedication to her husband and family she is able to show the holiness and sancity of God by her actions. The husband sees what a wonderful wife he has married and makes an effort to be more like her and thus be won by the word of God..

God intended woman to be the weaker vessel of the family as Peter says in 1 Peter 3:7

You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered. - 1 Peter 3:7

Does this mean women are weaker in mind and intellect? Of course not, it mostly has to do with physical weakness as well as feminity, since femininity is seen as soft, nuturing and caring. Hence weaker being that women are softer and more prone to injury showing that the husband has to care and protect their wives at all costs.

Husband must love their wives at all costs. Even if they stray or become snappy or rude. Granted a good god fearing woman won't act out in the way most western women do, but even good women sometimes have bad days. So husbands must have compassion and never EVER use physical violence or abuse against their wives

Husbands, love your wives and do not be embittered against them - Colossians 3:19

What plan does God have for women in general in how they should act and work. Titus 2:5 answers us

to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored - Titus 2:5

So we see God intends for women to be workers at home, and in general thats why most women seem to prefer to be housewives in the first place since its by God's natural law. It isn't because of oppression, its because women by nature gravitate towards the home because that is naturally whats God planned for them, and only by an unnatural denial of ones feminity would a woman begin to hate motherhood(which is why feminism is so dangerous to future familys today). We see a woman should be pure, kind, and subject to their husbands. Any good God fearing woman would understand this as almost second nature

In general the Godly way for women to act is in a meek, quiet, modest manner. Which is quite a rare thing for today(but then again most people are on their way to hell). But we see that a meek, humble god fearing woman tends to recieve much more respect for her husband as well as people in general. They should also dress modest and meek. As timothy states

Women, for their part, should display their beauty by dressing modestly and decently in appropriate clothes, not by braiding their hair or by wearing gold, pearls, or expensive clothes, - 1 Timothy 2:9



A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness - 1 Timothy 2:11



A God fearing woman naturally recieves instruction with quietness and meekness. Being humble is a good thing! And it was only till second wave feminism came into play that a meek humble woman was considered a foul word. Now today,telling a woman to be humble is considering the same as calling her a 4 letter word. No wonder why we have such horrid divorce rates! I can almost guarantee if people used Gods word as a guidance to their marriages and familys we would see a huge improvement in the stability of familys today
 
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Braunwyn

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I had read that post of his earlier and was going to reply with something similar.
If anything is bad for society it is people with CIC's attitudes. The complete lack of personal responsibility is so generic and a real hindrance to society and by extension, families. To add, I would also love to see some merit-based reasoning for the paraded crap seen in this thread. All we have thus far is the book and genitalia as qualifiers for specific gender roles. That's not saying a whole lot.
 
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Braunwyn

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Well, Ill go through the bible to see whats God's role for women is
You know I don't give a rat's behind what the bible says nor your interpretation. IRT god, you might as well tell me what pappa smurf thinks as it has just as much meaning for me. I know you won't share what you think because that's not something you're keen on doing. All you can do is parrot, which isn't surprising.

The only one that should be quiet (generally, not on CF) is you. Learn your place because in this world you're on the lower end of the pecking order...just where you belong.
 
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CreedIsChrist

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You know I don't give a rat's behind what the bible says nor your interpretation. IRT god, you might as well tell me what pappa smurf thinks as it has just as much meaning for me. I know you won't share what you think because that's not something you're keen on doing. All you can do is parrot, which isn't surprising.

The only one that should be quiet (generally, not on CF) is you. Learn your place because in this world you're on the lower end of the pecking order...just where you belong.


if you don't care what the bible says then WHY ARE YOU HERE ON A CHRISTIAN FORUM?

if you don't like it then get off our turf and goto an atheist forum or something so you can wallow in your pitiful hatred of God..
Seems the only reason your here is so you can complain about christians in order to justify your insecurities

"Oh yes, the narrowminded horrible bigoted christians, and we intellectual progressive smart atheists who really know whats going on."

Please, we can see right through you.
 
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Braunwyn

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if you don't care what the bible says then WHY ARE YOU HERE ON A CHRISTIAN FORUM?
I'm here to argue with you et al on issues of discrimination. *news flash* Forums that are not christian only allow for debate that does not include scripture. If you take issue with that, speak with the admin and I'll move on at their request.

if you don't like it then get off our turf and goto an atheist forum or something so you can wallow in your pitiful hatred of God.
My issues are not with your imaginary deity. My issues are with folk that discriminate. Now, you know it's not your place to tell other members if they should be posting here or not.
 
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CreedIsChrist

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I'm here to argue with you et al on issues of discrimination. *news flash* Forums that are not christian only allow for debate that does not include scripture. If you take issue with that, speak with the admin and I'll move on at their request.


My issues are not with your imaginary deity. My issues are with folk that discriminate. Now, you know it's not your place to tell other members if they should be posting here or not.


Im sure there many forums that have discrimination as their subject. But to come to a christian forum shows that you do care about scripture in some small way. Because you could do the same in an islam, orthodox jewish, shinto, bahai, forum too. If you come to a christian forum your gonna have to deal with scripture since scripture is a core basis for the so called "discrimination" that you so accuse.

E&M is not the sanctuary for atheists and liberals to come to to boss around a ridicule christians and their beliefs, even at the opinion of what many other christians here think E&M has become
 
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Braunwyn

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Im sure there many forums that have discrimination as their subject. But to come to a christian forum shows that you do care about scripture in some small way.
I'm sure I'd have greater interest in scripture coming from someone else.

Because you could do the same in an islam, orthodox jewish, shinto, bahai, forum too. If you come to a christian forum your gonna have to deal with scripture since scripture is a core basis for the so called "discrimination" that you so accuse.
CIC, the reality is that I ignore the long scripture copy/paste posts. If I ask you a question, I'm looking for your answer. I'm perfectly capable of reading so if I want to read scripture, I'll pick up a bible.

E&M is not the sanctuary for atheists and liberals to come to to boss around a ridicule christians and their beliefs, even at the opinion of what many other christians here think E&M has become
I don't ridicule Christians here. I just ridicule you. There are many fine Christians on this forum and they happen to make up the majority. It is a minority in any religion that use their religion to justify bigotry. I reject your attempts to justify discrimination and always will.
 
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PassionFruit

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I could consider your attacks on christianity as a personal attack too if I applied your same conclusion. If you cannot handle the criticism of your own movement then that tends to be a bad sign
I said point out a post to me, and where have I personally attacked Christianity. Why don't get the balls to show me a post where I attacked Christianity. I can handle criticism when it's well thought and based on facts not the BS you spread.

And you admire those anti-feminists so much like Phillis Schafly so much if it hadn't been for feminism she even be allowed to spread her BS as well. And those links you've provided don't prove a thing. Being a feminists, I've seen all that BS about how feminists are responsible for the so-called decay of society you haven't proven a thing, because you're incapable of doing so.



Now like I said, show me a post where I ridiculed Christianity, called someone delusional and narrow minded? Step up to the plate and show my one of my own posts where I have done this.

Also pulling out the feminists movements dirty laundry does not make someone a bigot, in fact it makes people more informed about it at least, even at the expense of raving left wingists like mpok or cantanta. It seems most liberals can't handle criticism of their ideals and try to shut out the free speech of those who are brave enough to step foward.

What dirty laundry of the feminist movement? Like I said, I'm open to criticism when it's based on valid facts. You only don't with And if you had any decent reading comprehension skills you'll see that I didnt' call you a bigot and you make yourself look like one.

Well, Ill go through the bible to see whats God's role for women is

Yeah let's examine that shall we.

I've also noticed you spend quite a bit of time quoting scriptures where women are supposed to be submissive. And you have also indicated that women should solely dedicate their lives to childbearing and being a parent. What about Deborah? Was she less of a woman in your eyes because she didn't solely dedicate her life to being just a wife? Was she less of a woman for being a judge and asserting herself in a "mans world" because she had men under her command.

Now I'm quite certain that she wasn't quiet nor submissive, because if you're in a position where you had to settle disputes and lead armies, I don't think you could have been a good leader . It seems according to you that she shouldn't have been a judge or commanding men, because that goes against her nurturing instinct (whatever that is) even though she's given the status of a 'prophet.'

Judging from many of your posts it seems that you would think that Deborah was "less of a woman" because she didn't dedicate her life to just being a wife and mother.

And what about all these other women in the Bible, was Mary Magdalene "less of a woman," (perhaps you can also answer my question as to why her gospel wasn't included in the NT) was Esther "less of a woman" for being in a position of authority? It seems the Christian God had a different plan for these women. It seems you're conveniently leaving out the examples of women who didn't conform to these roles.

 
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PassionFruit

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So by Gods plan, he wants womans desire to be for their husbands and proprogate the family. Now any modern western woman would take this as outright sexism. But then again she is ignorant to the plan of God nor has guidance from the Holy Spirit so she cannot understand the true meaning of this. Job tells us

Goodness your grammar and spelling is atrocious. Why can't anti-feminists use proper spelling and grammar? :confused: :doh:How hard is it to proof read, [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]. *rolls eyes*


Anyways as I stated above, there were women in the Bible who didn't have children, but were held in high esteem. You've also completely ignored the fact that there are many women out there who physically can't have children.

Also answer this question: Why is God referred to as a he? Mind answering that question?


This shows that a womans joy is in her children. And as we can see a child is priceless to a good decent mother and is the center of her world. No job or worldly things will ever replace the love and importance she has for her children, unless she is ungodly.

So if a woman doesn't have children is she "less of a woman?" Why is a woman's identity tied up with her children?

Does this mean women are weaker in mind and intellect? Of course not, it mostly has to do with physical weakness as well as feminity, since femininity is seen as soft, nuturing and caring. Hence weaker being that women are softer and more prone to injury showing that the husband has to care and protect their wives at all costs.

So was Deborah and Esther somehow unfeminine? Because they had authority?

Husband must love their wives at all costs. Even if they stray or become snappy or rude. Granted a good god fearing woman won't act out in the way most western women do, but even good women sometimes have bad days. So husbands must have compassion and never EVER use physical violence or abuse against their wives

If I recall there was post where you basically implied that the reason why women are in domestic violence situations is because they deserve to be. Oh that's right, it's because she stepped out of her "role," because of the teh horrid feministzzzz!


So we see God intends for women to be workers at home, and in general thats why most women seem to prefer to be housewives in the first place since its by God's natural law. It isn't because of oppression, its because women by nature gravitate towards the home because that is naturally whats God planned for them, and only by an unnatural denial of ones feminity would a woman begin to hate motherhood(which is why feminism is so dangerous to future familys today). We see a woman should be pure, kind, and subject to their husbands. Any good God fearing woman would understand this as almost second nature

Why is hard for you to proof read? Makes me regret being an English major. :doh:That's another reason why it's hard for me to take you seriously.

Like I showed you some examples above from the Bible, it didn't seem like the Christian God intended for those women to be workers of the home. And no most women don't prefer to be housewives. You are also ignoring the fact that some women can't be housewives, even if they want to.

Bad knowledge of history, feminism, and poor spelling and grammar.

But you can bash feminism all you want, you're actually doing us favor, because it attitudes such as yours as to why feminism exist.

And fix your grammar and spelling, it's an eye sore.
 
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OphidiaPhile

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And all of the women that are scientists, doctors, lawyers, CEOs, pilots, engineers, authors, inventors, politicians, actors and many other professions that benefit mankind should just learn their place and become a breeding machine at home where they belong.:doh:
 
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