The problem of evil

[ToddNotTodd]

Let me answer a question with a question. Why do most people consider it wrong to be a vigilante?

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I don't know.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Why do you refuse to answer his question? That's not honest behaviour.

But in my experience it's typical behavior, especially with this question. There's probably some cognitive dissonance going on...

 

[Hieronymus]

That doesn't really address why god is morally justified in punishing people for crimes their ancestors committed, while it's not morally justifiable for us.

Explain how that one works.

He's GOD.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

I don't know.

Because they attempt administer justice without the authority to do so. Which is why some things are considered immoral. Let's take killing for example. If an executioner kills for capital punishment or a soldier killing in a war, most people would not consider these people immoral or bad. But if a man kills someone outside of their authority...it's murder.

The same principle applies to God. There are some things that only God has the authority to do so. Why?....because he is God. Why wouldn't He have the authority. But if we attempt to do those things, we are acting out of our authority and now we are trying to "play god". Just like how a vigilante tries to "be the law".


So in short, the answer as to why it is acceptable for God to do some things a we cannot, it's because He is God and you are not.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Because they attempt administer justice without the authority to do so.

Looking at a poll on debate.org shows that 67% feel that vigilante justice is a good thing. So I don't know if most people believe it to be wrong.

Personally, I'm against it because it tends to go on emotion rather than facts, and usually ends in violence, which I'm against.

But in any event, authority doesn't correspond to morality. We can imagine an authority punishing people for immoral reasons.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Looking at a poll on debate.org shows that 67% feel that vigilante justice is a good thing. So I don't know if most people believe it to be wrong.

Personally, I'm against it because it tends to go on emotion rather than facts, and usually ends in violence, which I'm against.

But in any event, authority doesn't correspond to morality. We can imagine an authority punishing people for immoral reasons.

Without getting distracted by an arguement about vigilante justice, the facts are this. If you kill a man who YOU believe deserves to die, you have committed murder and will be imprisoned for it. You do not have the authority to determine who lives and who dies. You are acting as your own Judge, Jury, and Executioner without the authority to do so and taking away someone's right to a fair trial. 67% of people thinking it's a "good thing" is not going to keep you from going to jail.

I bet if someone felt like you deserved to die, you probably wouldn't think vigilantes are a good thing.

How do you define what is moral or immoral?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

How do you define what is moral or immoral?

Nature, nurture and logic.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Nature, nurture and logic.

So if 67% believe vigilantes are good based on nature, nurture, and logic, why is your view better than theirs?

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[ToddNotTodd]

So if 67% believe vigilantes are good based on nature, nurture, and logic, why is your view better than theirs?

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Why does it need to be "better"?

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Why does it need to be "better"?

So, would you say that your view on vigilantes immoral? Or that 67% are immoral?

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[ToddNotTodd]

Ju

So, would you say that your view on vigilantes immoral? Or that 67% are immoral?

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If someone thinks it's fine for a person to kill someone who they believe to be a criminal, then I find that an immoral position. Whether or not that person has the authority to do so.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Ju


If someone thinks it's fine for a person to kill someone who they believe to be a criminal, then I find that immoral. Whether or not that person has the authority to do so.

How so?

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[ToddNotTodd]

How so?

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My morality is based on people caring about one another, no matter who they are. I find incarceration to be punishment enough for criminals. I find the idea of killing criminals distasteful.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

My morality is based on people caring about one another, no matter who they are. I find incarceration to be punishment enough for criminals. I find the idea of killing criminals distasteful.

Interesting.

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[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

My morality is based on people caring about one another, no matter who they are. I find incarceration to be punishment enough for criminals. I find the idea of killing criminals distasteful.

According to Gallup, 61% are in favor of the death penalty. Are the 61% immoral in your opinion?

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[ToddNotTodd]

According to Gallup, 61% are in favor of the death penalty. Are the 61% immoral in your opinion?

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Yeppers. I find that a lot of people's acceptance for the death penalty to boils down to "ARRRRRRR, it upsets me so kill it!" I try not to come from that position, and when I do hold that position, I try and quickly change from it.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Yeppers. I find that a lot of people's acceptance for the death penalty to boils down to "ARRRRRRR, it upsets me so kill it!" I try not to come from that position, and when I do hold that position, I try and quickly change from it.

So majority opinion plays no factor as to what is moral or immoral. Is that correct?

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[FrumiousBandersnatch]

So majority opinion plays no factor as to what is moral or immoral. Is that correct?

Morals are personal, subjective, and they can change over time. In successful cooperative societies, consensus opinion is marshalled, by various means, to establish a common moral framework, usually codified in law. Part of the social contract is that individuals are expected to respect and defer or conform to the common moral framework, particularly as codified in law, even when it conflicts with their personal moral framework. In relatively free societies, means are provided by which individuals and groups can express dissenting moral views and attempt to shift the consensus and/or change the law.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

So majority opinion plays no factor as to what is moral or immoral. Is that correct?

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Majority opinion has no bearing on what I find immoral or moral. I would find someone whose morality is influenced by the majority to have a very shaky ground to build on.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Majority opinion has no bearing on what I find immoral or moral. I would find someone whose morality is influenced by the majority to have a very shaky ground to build on.

So, how do you "know" that your view is the "moral" one?

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