The problem of evil

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FireDragon76

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It seems to me the problem of evil is a real problem, and it is my main barrier to faith. I just have trouble believing in a benevolent creator that cares about people- I see no evidence for it in this world. There is gross unfairness and suffering in the world and I don't believe Christians can account for it.

I grant that I could be wrong, that somehow there is a God in charge of it all and its just like the Christian God and is beyond my understanding. But it would be pretty cruel for such a being to hold honest doubts against me, given the quality of evidence he's left.

And honestly, if it is the case that God exists and he has such a mysterious plan, what does that say about Christian epistemology? How could we take any religious authority seriously if God's will is so inscrutable? It seems to me much more skepticism of religious claims are warranted, regardless of whether or not the Christian God exists.
 

com7fy8

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So, here I am experiencing God and how He is making me peaceful in spite of all the evil. And the Bible says we have peace with God through Jesus Christ.

So, you can excuse yourself from this, by letting evil decide what you believe.

If there really is God in all things which the Bible reveals, then who wants you not to believe in Him?

And what would be the motives for keeping you from believing?

What do you value more than obeying God? What and who are you trusting, instead?

I personally understand the Bible means that God is in absolute control of all that is good and all the evil. And God is personal with His children, not distant and only logical and theoretical for arguing and beliefs.

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, our Heavenly Father is so personal and about family, that His Holy Spirit shares His very own love with each of us His children, right in our "hearts". And this is Heaven's own quality of love > Heaven's love in Heaven's Holy Spirit.

But Satan was not satisfied with Heaven and how the loving is in Heaven. So, Satan got thrown out. This is how unreasonable Satan and evil is. Jesus and Heaven's family and personal way of loving is not good enough for Satan and evil. And yes there are people who feel that Jesus is not good enough for them > who has them being like this? Our Apostle Paul says there is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience," in Ephesians 2:2.

So, I would not allow evil to decide what you think and decide.

There is such evil, and I would say much worse and deeply dark than you and I have experienced or heard or imagined; and without God you will get into experiencing evil much more deeply, in your character and personality > 2 Timothy 3:13.

But there is good > there is the sun which keeps shining and doing so much more good than the bad which evil is doing. And God is greater and better than the sun. With God, we can discover what good we can do, better than what we can do without Him.

But this includes turning from how we have been living selfishly and wrongly, getting real correction so we love as family with God and His people, and so we become so we have hope for any and all evil people . . . how God is able to cure any horrible person's nature to become like Jesus in love. So, if we somehow do not have this hope for any evil and wrong person, this can be what is helping us to not be with God. Any unforgiveness, any excusing of wrong people . . . can keep us elsewhere from His all-loving love.

So . . . are you justifying and excusing any wrong people . . . discriminating against them by denying that they need forgiveness? This is very cruel, if you do this! And then it can be easy to accuse God of being the One who is cruel, while you yourself are helping people to miss out on God and His Heaven-quality love, by excusing or even encouraging people who are wrong.

To my knowledge, God is the One who is being kind to people, by changing us out of our suffering which is because of the weakness of our sinning. He is not the one who is being cruel by excusing people to miss out on God by continuing in their selfish stuff.

Satan is "the god of this age" (2 Corinthians 4:4) who is ruining people so they suffer in various personality torments which have their roots in fear (1 John 4:18, Hebrews 2:14-15); but God's love drives out fear and cures people so we can not be tormented by staying weak for pleasures and excitements which do not give us real love. Our weakness for foolish pleasure is also weakness to keep on deeply suffering.

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

So, if you think there could be a "God" who is cruel, you are thinking about Satan, and not about the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who so suffered for us so we don't miss out on God and so we do not go where Jesus knows Satan and his are going. Jesus knows if there is hell, and I consider that He considered it worth all that suffering in order to keep us from going there. I would not call Him cruel, then.
 
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Davian

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FireDragon76

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Wait a minute... suffering is because of the weakness of our sinning? I find this belief repulsive. I know plenty of people that have suffered for no apparent reason, and I can't think of any sins they did to deserve their suffering. So you need to rethink what you are saying here.

Satan can't let God off the hook here, if God is all powerful, then he permits whatever Satan does, even though he could choose to do differently (because he's all-powerful).
 
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bhsmte

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Wait a minute... suffering is because of the weakness of our sinning? I find this belief repulsive. I know plenty of people that have suffered for no apparent reason, and I can't think of any sins they did to deserve their suffering. So you need to rethink what you are saying here.

Satan can't let God off the hook here, if God is all powerful, then he permits whatever Satan does, even though he could choose to do differently (because he's all-powerful).

9 million children die each year before the age of five. I have a hard time believing, they all deserved it.
 
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Locutus

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If sin is error, then we suffer for our mistakes.


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When 2 year olds are diagnosed with inoperable cancer, or die painfully of starvation, how do you make sense of that?

Is the possibility of your own immortality so compelling that you can make the painful deaths of millions of innocents seem reasonable?
 
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Neochristian

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When 2 year olds are diagnosed with inoperable cancer, or die painfully of starvation, how do you make sense of that?

Is the possibility of your own immortality so compelling that you can make the painful deaths of millions of innocents seem reasonable?

Jesus, project much?

The error isn't dying, but dying painfully.

Also, if starvation is preventable it is definitely the result of error.
 
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Chesterton

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I know plenty of people that have suffered for no apparent reason,...

To be fair we always have to include a phrase like that. There could be reasons which are not apparent to us. May be hard to swallow emotionally but very easy intellectually.
 
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Locutus

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Jesus, project much?

The error isn't dying, but dying painfully.

Also, if starvation is preventable it is definitely the result of error.

Project? Do I have you wrong on defence of evil? Happy to stand corrected if so.

Starvation is not a 'result of error' under an all-powerful deity with a plan. If no such deity exists, then it is error. Which do you subscribe to?
 
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Locutus

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To be fair we always have to include a phrase like that. There could be reasons which are not apparent to us. May be hard to swallow emotionally but very easy intellectually.

On the contrary, 'mysterious reasons' are hard to swallow intellectually. But easy to swallow emotionally - because it circumvents those hard questions.
 
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Neochristian

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Project? Do I have you wrong on defence of evil? Happy to stand corrected if so.

Starvation is not a 'result of error' under an all-powerful deity with a plan. If no such deity exists, then it is error. Which do you subscribe to?

You're making a nanny out of the 'all-powerful deity with a plan.' I don't think it's a nanny. Also, as far as I can tell, death is a part of the plan. I've been reading William James. Maybe even 'painful' death.
 
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Oafman

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It seems to me the problem of evil is a real problem, and it is my main barrier to faith. I just have trouble believing in a benevolent creator that cares about people- I see no evidence for it in this world. There is gross unfairness and suffering in the world and I don't believe Christians can account for it.
It was the problem of evil which led me away from Christianity, as I became old enough to understand it.

It's 23 centuries since Epicurus posed the question, and nobody has answered it. Including Jesus.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
 
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Chesterton

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Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

This depends on how you define omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

This is a non sequitur.
 
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Picky Picky

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It's probably a mistake to call this problem "the problem of evil" because it extends further than that. The whole of living creation is based on a system of suffering; on one species consuming another. The pain felt by an antelope when the cheetah sinks its teeth in — only by some sleight of hand can that be blamed on the sins of man or the machinations of satan: it is fundamental to how life exists, to how any creator must have created things.
 
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