iamlamad said in post 710:
Paul's sudden destruction that comes at the same time as his rapture is the WORLDWIDE earthquake at the 6th seal . . .
iamlamad said in post 710:
Paul's sudden destruction that comes at the same time as his rapture is the WORLDWIDE earthquake at the 6th seal . . .
iamlamad said in post 745:
. . . the raptured church is seen IN HEAVEN in Rev. 7
Old Timer said in post 719:
Because in Christ there is NEITHER Jew or Gentile . . .
Old Timer said in post 721:
Right.. and you're Israel now.. got it.. the Israel over there is just Satanic deception..
Old Timer said in post 723:
What I do understand is the very simple mystery pertaining to Israel being blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in..
Old Timer said in post 733:
ISRAEL is the only NATION on earth that is not counted amongst the GENTILE nations.. and it consists exclusively of the twelve sons of JACOB.. and therefore the twelve tribes of Israel..
Old Timer said in post 758:
The post trib rapture of the church of God must be correct because it says so there in Matthew and Mark... that those in Judaea shall flee to the mountains and that hopefully it doesn't happen on the sabbath..
And since the church is now Israel.. this is talking about the church in Judaea and evidently those in the church who are concerned with the sabbath day...
Right ?
Old Timer said in post 758:
The post trib rapture of the church of God must be correct because it says so there in Matthew and Mark... that those in Judaea shall flee to the mountains and that hopefully it doesn't happen on the sabbath..
And since the church is now Israel.. this is talking about the church in Judaea and evidently those in the church who are concerned with the sabbath day...
Right ?
n2thelight said in post 722:
What you don't understand is the fact that only Judah(Jew's) returned to that nation state of Israel....
As if you know better than God who a Jew is an who isn't one..
Because in Christ there is NEITHER Jew or Gentile and yet that doesn't matter one iota to those who can't see the actual Israel right in front of their own eyes.. and who have been deceived into believing the lie that THEY are Israel..
If that's not Satanic Deception, then what is?
I would'nt doubt it...Many are blinded for their own good,as they won't be judged in ignorance...Especially when satan comes pretending to be Christ.......
You forgot: I and Old Timer won't be here. We get to fly away, because we BELIEVE. It will be YOU who will face the Beast, and find out for sure what God meant when He said you will be OVERCOME.
LAMAD
iamlamad said in post 787:
We get to fly away . . .
iamlamad said in post 787:
It will be YOU who will face the Beast, and find out for sure what God meant when He said you will be OVERCOME.
I have no problem facing the beast,Im actually looking forward to it
Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil."
Matthew 10:28"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
Oh and just one more thing for ya,only those without the seal of God shall be overcome
As a matter of fact he dos'nt overcome me,I overcome him
Revelation 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."
Just another tid bit
My name is written in the book
Revelation 13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
One huge problem: Ephesians 6:11 is for the church age. It will be impossible to "stand against the wiles of the devil" during the 70th week, for the will of Our Father will have changed: His NEW will will be what has been written for that time: the saints will be OVERCOME. THAT is what you can have true faith for during the 70th week.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
So WHO "overcame him"??? It says "they." Who are they? It is all those whom the devil accused before God day and night. In other words, US TODAY. This is not necessarily speaking of those who will be overcome during the days of great tribulation. Certainly we have overcome him because we are born again. For those who were accused by him during the first half of the week (it won't be me or other pretrib believers - for we will be GONE) God gives a good hint that they will be overcome during the second half of the week - the days of great tribulation - since they loved not their life unto death. And that goes perfectly with what John and Daniel both said, that the saints WILL BE overcome. So when you are left behind, YOU will be overcome. You will not be able to use your faith against the Beast, because the ONLY word of God for that time is that you will be overcome. (You can have true faith in being overcome.) Church age promises will no longer work. It will be a new dispensation with a NEW promise: you will be overcome.
Now see what the devil does the moment he is cast down. He goes immediately after the woman, that is the JEWS and Hebrews.
Always remember, there will be only ONE WAY into heaven after you have been left behind by the pretrib rapture: Lose your head. If someone does manage to survive, and pass the sheep and goat judgment, they will be allowed entrance into the millennial kingdom. They will MISS the marriage and supper which will be held in heaven.
LAMAD
Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Those are Christians. The issue is are they the unraptured church included or persons who become Christians after the rapture?Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
That is over a long period of time since the days of the first Christians.Rev_17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
I am not a pre-tribber, although it could take place pretrib, but anytime rapture. But I will say what you write about faith in a 15 year old girl's dream, is a preposterous statement because pre-tribbers are basing their view on bible passages - whether it turns out to be right or not remains - and not a 15 year old girl's dream.There will not be a pretrib rapture. You are putting your "faith" in the so-called vision of a 15 year old girl.
Their arguments in favor of a pretrib rapture are spurious at best.But I will say what you write about faith in a 15 year old girl's dream, is a preposterous statement because pre-tribbers are basing their view on bible passages - whether it turns out to be right or not remains - and not a 15 year old girl's dream.
What you are doing is making a non-biblical irrational argument based on the timing cannot be pre-trib, not because the bible passages say otherwise, but because you are irrationally asserting that pre-tribbers are going by the story, instead of the bible passages which they make in their arguments.
But I will say what you write about faith in a 15 year old girl's dream, is a preposterous statement because pre-tribbers are basing their view on bible passages - whether it turns out to be right or not remains - and not a 15 year old girl's dream.
Their arguments in favor of a pretrib rapture are spurious at best.
See:
Exposing the Secret Rapture
THE RAPTURE PREMISE
The main premise of the rapture theory has to do with whether I Thes. 4:13-18 is an earlier and separate resurrection (rapture or snatching away) than the resurrection mentioned in Matt. 24 and also the book of Revelation. In fairness to the author, I will address every argument used in this article. We now present the arguments from the articles and the tape in bold print:(1) Many attempts have been made to identify the revelations in Daniel, Zechariah, Matthew and Revelation with Paul's revelations here [I Thes. 4:13-18] and in I Corinthians 15. There are some similarities, especially in the use of such terms as "trumpet," "clouds" and "presence" (or "coming"). But it is the differences which make the difference!ANSWER: Do "the differences make the difference?" That is, if (certains elements) describing the events in one account are different from the events described in another account, does that necessarily prove that we are being presented with two totally different occurrences which will happen at two different times? This is probably the biggest argument that teachers of the rapture theory use to defend their teaching. "The differences make the difference." This statement might sound reasonable on the surface, but is it absolutely true?
Source:
Exposing the Secret Rapture
Those are Christians, yes. But they are the Jews who have turned to Jesus in the middle of the 7 years.
There will certainly be others who become Christians during the 7 years, just not that particular group.
Those are Christians. The issue is are they the unraptured church included or persons who become Christians after the rapture?
That is over a long period of time since the days of the first Christians.
I am not a pre-tribber, although it could take place pretrib, but anytime rapture. But I will say what you write about faith in a 15 year old girl's dream, is a preposterous statement because pre-tribbers are basing their view on bible passages - whether it turns out to be right or not remains - and not a 15 year old girl's dream.
What you are doing is making a non-biblical irrational argument based on the timing cannot be pre-trib, not because the bible passages say otherwise, but because you are irrationally asserting that pre-tribbers are going by the story, instead of the bible passages which they make in their arguments.
Rev_12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev_14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev_17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
These saints described above are Christians. You can call them "tribulation saints" if you want to, however the Greek word used is "hagios" which is the same word used to describe Christians in other parts of the New Testament. If they have "the testimony of Jesus Christ", they are Christians under the same New Testament Covenant as we are.
There will not be a pretrib rapture. You are putting your "faith" in the so-called vision of a 15 year old girl. Her "Secret Rapture" vision of the Irvingites has produced the "Rapture Cult". It is a cult because you and others state that only some Christians will "fly away". You say the rest of us are Christians, but we will be "Left Behind" because we do not believe in the "Secret Rapture" vision of the teenage girl. It is another Gospel, which keeps some Christians from being part of "the Bride of Christ" because we do not believe the "Secret Rapture" interpretation. We have been warned not to preach another Gospel.
Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf
When Christ comes for us, it will not be a secret. Every ear on the planet will hear the trump of God and every eye will see Christ coming in flaming fire with the angels. (2nd Thess. chapter 1 )
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