The pre-tribulation Rapture theory is a Satanic Deception.

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Riberra

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Yep, you are Israel
No, we are the descendants from the Ten Lost Tribes .
Source:
http://www.biblestudysite.com/migrationmap.htm
Old Testament Israel are now the Anglo-Saxon Christian peoples of The U.K. and the Americas. The story from Gen 2:7 - Rev 7:8:
There has been much confusion over who is Israel and who are Christians in regards to the end-time prophecies in the book of Revelation. Much of the confusion is due in no small part to the false teaching of a PRETRIB Rapture doctrine wherein they 'need' the Christian Church to be gone after {Rev 4:1} for support of their errant theories. And if they were to accept that the 144,000 'sealed of Israel' {Rev chp.7} are not Jews but rather Christians from the 10 lost tribes of Israel then their Rapture theory washes of it's foundation of sand.
The entire Bible, the Old Testament, the New Testament, the book of Revelation, even past {Rev 4:1} all the way to the last chapter "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches..." {Rev 22:16} is written to and/or about the Christian Church, that faithful church of God, some of it history, some prophecy, some warning and admonition, some instruction, but all of it for God’s chosen people, the planting of the Lord {Isa 61:3} as they moved from the Garden of Eden into present day history and then beyond into the eternity. It is the true Christian, the followers of Christ who are the light to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus the Son of God, that shall fulfill the prophecy and, for God, by God, spread the Gospel of God during the end-time troubles:


and the make believe Israel over there is just an illusion
Yep, there is a Country named Israel re-founded in 1948


http://www.biblestudysite.com/migrationmap.htm

the re-formation of israel in the west

israel's migrations to "the appointed place"

 
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iamlamad

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No, we are the descendants from the Ten Lost Tribes .
Source:
http://www.biblestudysite.com/migrationmap.htm
Old Testament Israel are now the Anglo-Saxon Christian peoples of The U.K. and the Americas. The story from Gen 2:7 - Rev 7:8:
There has been much confusion over who is Israel and who are Christians in regards to the end-time prophecies in the book of Revelation. Much of the confusion is due in no small part to the false teaching of a PRETRIB Rapture doctrine wherein they 'need' the Christian Church to be gone after {Rev 4:1} for support of their errant theories. And if they were to accept that the 144,000 'sealed of Israel' {Rev chp.7} are not Jews but rather Christians from the 10 lost tribes of Israel then their Rapture theory washes of it's foundation of sand.
The entire Bible, the Old Testament, the New Testament, the book of Revelation, even past {Rev 4:1} all the way to the last chapter "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches..." {Rev 22:16} is written to and/or about the Christian Church, that faithful church of God, some of it history, some prophecy, some warning and admonition, some instruction, but all of it for God’s chosen people, the planting of the Lord {Isa 61:3} as they moved from the Garden of Eden into present day history and then beyond into the eternity. It is the true Christian, the followers of Christ who are the light to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus the Son of God, that shall fulfill the prophecy and, for God, by God, spread the Gospel of God during the end-time troubles:



Yep, there is a Country named Israel re-founded in 1948


http://www.biblestudysite.com/migrationmap.htm

the re-formation of israel in the west

israel's migrations to "the appointed place"



ERROR! MYTH!

Pretrib does not "need" the church to be gone by Rev. 4:1. That is MYTH. However, make no mistake, the raptured church is seen IN HEAVEN in Rev. 7, before the 70th week is begun at the 7th seal.

Neither will the church need to be sealed: they are seen by John IN HEAVEN by the 7th chapter. The days of great tribulation will not begin until chapter 15.

Therefore this Riberra post is MYTH.

LAMAD
 
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iamlamad

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I am happy to share it ...my learning of the Holy Scripture from the KJV Bible Version with the help of the Holy Spirit and the study from biblestudysite.com .have been exponential.

List of all study titles (see at right)
Link:
http://www.biblestudysite.com/indepth.htm


It really helps to study doctrines of devils!
Worse yet, you don't even recognize what it is. A wise believer would RUN from that site - or would have never gone there to begin. Study the bible for YOURSELF! AT least you won't soak up false doctrines from someone else.

LAMAD
 
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iamlamad

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This is an excellent question..

And YES.. the Apostle to the GENTILES is speaking of the the NATION of ISRAEL and its many earthly ordinances which were all a picture of Christ..

ISRAEL is the only NATION on earth that is not counted amongst the GENTILE nations.. and it consists exclusively of the twelve sons of JACOB.. and therefore the twelve tribes of Israel..

And it's that NATION, and that CITY of the great King, Jerusalem.. where the Lord shall sit upon the throne of His glory and be King over all the earth in that Day..


Well written! Truth. How refreshing!

LAMAD
 
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BABerean2

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Reflections upon the Prophetic Inquiry…

During 1829 one man gave his opinion about the rampant speculation occurring during his time regarding Bible prophecy. He wrote from the perspective of one holding to the Historicist, Amillennial viewpoint, and therefore argues against what he calls the “Millenarians“. He started with the warning that occurs at the end of the Book of Revelation which makes it clear that we are not to add to, or take away from anything written within that book. Some text has been highlighted and or underlined to show some of his main concerns.
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"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book," Rev. 22:18, 19.

The existing circumstances of the Church of God seem to call upon those who earnestly desire its welfare, not to hold back from expressing that which may, in any way, tend to the strengthening of faith and healing those divisions which, while they destroy charity, and the fellowship one with another that is proper to walking in the light, weaken the testimony which is held out to the unconverted, or to the inquirer, of the everlasting truth of God. It appears to me that, on the subject of prophecy (divisions on which now shame godliness), both those who hold and those who strenuously oppose views, which, for convenience' sake, we may call Millenarian, are deeply culpable. Many have written on one side and the other ignorant of each other's views, and precipitate and unwarranted in their inferences from them; and, while those who hold the views of prophecy, which have occasioned the controversy, have indulged in language utterly inconsistent with the spirit of their Master, those who are unconvinced by them, though charging this exclusively on the Millenarians, are themselves, it appears to me, in no way free from blame. Superciliousness, distrust, and animosity, not perhaps so distinctly expressed, because new views are generally the most active and forward, but quite as evil in their character and spirit, have marked their conduct and language; while those who sought instruction, and to whom the others were debtors for it, have been hindered, perplexed, and repelled in their inquiries by the selfish precipitancy of the one and presuming ignorance of many connected with them, and the uncandid uninquiring rejection and denouncement of the other. There is no one at all observant of what is now existing, and interested in the strengthening of humble souls, but must feel the culpable responsibility in which many leaders of the professing church are involved. Page 1

There are some observations I would make on these subjects, being convinced of the extreme precipitancy in which many have written upon them; and I think that in such a time (though I am persuaded the purposes of God will eventually result, and His glory be manifested in our weakness), there should be a disposition to try more maturely the soundness of our views and statements alleged to be from Scripture, before truth and the value of the sacred Scriptures themselves are brought into question, perplexity, and disgrace, by the presumptuous and hasty pursuit, not of scriptural truth, but of our own untried thoughts, given out to a greedy public, glad of novelty, which has no requisition of sanctification attached to it, and ready to neglect their own souls for unfounded and idle speculations. Page 2

In many things, alas! we are divided enough - enough exposed to the enemy not to be opposed to one another in our very hopes. Surely they should give some just sense, if they think those to whom they are opposed in the wrong. For my own part, if I were bound to receive all that has been said by the Millenarians, I would reject the whole system; but their views and statements weigh with me not one feather. But this does not hinder me from inquiring by the teaching of the same Spirit (which in measure, I believe, directed them) what God has with infinite graciousness revealed to me concerning His dealings with the Church.

I confess I think the modern writers on prophecy justly chargeable with following their own thoughts hastily, and far too much removed from the control of Scripture. They have got some general view, perhaps sound, of God's purpose. They take some text or prophecy as a starting point, pursue the suggestions of their own minds in connection with their general views previously adopted, but leave the results almost entirely untried by the direct testimony of the word, affording us theories, often enlarging when by a writer much imbued with Scripture, often of general soundness of view though replete with false statements: but, when not by such a writer, diverging into absurdities calculated to awaken the impatience of many and bring the truth of all into dishonour. In the meanwhile the Church is distracted. There is not a single writer whose writings I have seen (unless it be the author of one short inquiry) who is not chargeable with this fault. Some of the most confident really call for much reprobation. But good, I am persuaded, will grow out of it; and the very difficulties will call, under God's Spirit, the attention of the faithful servant of God: and while the precipitancy of the others will be repressed by the distinct manifestation of the error into which it has led them and the calm statement of truth, they who have hitherto rejected even inquiry will yield themselves to much which they have scorned, and be humbled both to the acknowledgment of a common truth and the spiritual sincerity of many against whom they have been bitter, because they could not convince them, when in truth it was their own fault. I would call upon the servants of God to pray that He would guide and direct His church by His Spirit in these things in sober and subdued meekness, and it will surely be led into all truth. I shall take notice (with this feeling) of some things which seem to me illustrative of the unguarded, unscriptural statements many of which, I think, have dishonoured Scripture, and been spoken ignorantly: and I shall, secondly, propose some ground of inquiry, to those who have hitherto repudiated these views. Page 4

Again, in the translator's preliminary discourse to Ben-Ezra, we have (p. 55), "And to this effect I understand Rom. 8:1, 'There is no condemnation' (krisis, i.e. judgment)," etc. The word is katakrima without a single various reading in Wetstein or Griesbach. Doubtless he had in mind John 5:24, where it is krisis. If this were an isolated act of inadvertency, it might be well passed over; but it is evidence, and accumulated evidence, of great carelessness. And it is adduced on this account, that it is introduced by the author as determining the sense of an important passage, to which, at the time of stating it, it is evident, he could not have referred; not merely from the mistake itself, but because the whole passage (and this is the point I would urge) bears in a long train of argument upon subjects totally unconnected with the one upon which he is arguing, and in which krisis, in his view of it, would have no place or object. That which we advert to is not the casual mistake, but the drawing in a whole passage into a purpose beside its object, through absorption of mind, into one particular view. Page 7

And in this place we cannot pass over, though it cannot be treated as a mistake, passages in this preface highly injurious to the work and honour of Christ, and in it, the just, holy, and influencing comfort of believing saints. It is alike indicative of the same hasty pursuit of a single idea. I shall quote but one concentrating sentence - but the observations will apply to the whole spirit shewn from p. 55-65 of this preface. The haste, the very culpable haste (for the promises and hopes of God's people are not thus to be trifled with) is shewn in this. In evincing (the truth of which we do not now inquire into) that the resurrection at Christ's coming is the substantive hope of the Church, he attempts this by throwing every cloud upon the hope of the dying Christian. "Death," his words are, "is a parting, not a meeting; it is a sorrowful parting, not a joyful meeting; it is a parting in feebleness and helplessness to we know not whither - into a being we know not what." This sentence is singularly unfortunate in its statements; and, indeed, Scripture and the hope of the gospel ought not to be thus made the slave of men's momentary thoughts. "I have a desire," says the apostle, "to depart and to be with Christ." Death to the believer is not a parting but a meeting, if our central and supreme affections are with Christ. I am not questioning here, be it remembered, the hope of Christ's coming, but Mr. Irving's statements respecting death. Death is not a sorrowful parting, but a joyful meeting; for it does not become us to sorrow as those without hope. For why? - they that sleep in Jesus go to Jesus, and God brings them with Him. For indeed "he that liveth and believeth in Jesus shall never die." If, indeed, he values earthly things more than Christ's presence, then sorrow will accompany his death But it is the proper distinction of Christianity to nave neutralised that power of death which Mr. Irving is preaching; "for the sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law"; but both are dead to the believer in the death of the Lord Jesus Christ the Saviour. It is a parting not in but with feebleness and helplessness, we know whither - that is, to Christ. If He be true, we know whither we go, and the way. As to "a being we know not what," the Scripture affirms it of the state of the risen body, and of that only. "It does not yet appear," saith the apostle, "what we shall be," speaking expressly of that state. As to the promise, Mr. Irving is writing against his own opinions; for, if he hold that Christ will come again, he believes that He will bring His saints with Him, so that they which are alive and remain have no preference. He is indeed himself witness that Scripture is conclusive as to a paradise for the separated spirit; but he says we know not what it is. Is there nothing, then, in being with Christ the Saviour, who loved us and gave Himself for us - that hope that brightened the thoughts and quickened the expectations of many a dying and many a martyred saint? Is there nothing in being with Him, to throw holy influence and triumphant character on the relinquishment of this yet evil and Satan-deceived world? Sure I am, there was that in it which made Paul prefer death to life; for death was no death to him, but parting from trial to Christ, from perseverance through surrounding evil to that blessed presence, where all doubt, sorrow, and death would have passed away to him for ever. He had a desire to depart and be with Christ; he was not comforted only by the building of God made with hands; for he was always confident, desiring rather to be absent from the body and present with the Lord.
Pages 7-8

We must say that this is a most unholy mis-statement of Scripture, and destructive of that which is the glory and influential power, as well of the resurrection of the saints, as of their present hopes; and that, if the Lord's presence be not a paramount blessing, prevailing over death now, it never will be at the resurrection, or at any other time. It shews the folly of man in his thoughts; for, in attempting to shew the importance of his views above another's, the sole thing which is of power in those very views and can alone realise them is undermined and destroyed, and this in the face of the fullest and most anxious statements of Scripture, and to the dishonour of Christ and the faith of the saints of God. Satan reigns by death; Christ has brought life and immortality to light by the gospel. And to argue from the circumstances of His death is folly; for it was because He so suffered, and (having overcome in full conflict with the very power under which it is here stated we rest) rose again into glory, that we have not that trial, that we are delivered and triumph, and that its power is past away towards us. The observations from the Apocalypse are a total misapprehension of its force. This might call for much and varied animadversion; but my object is not to condemn or accuse (God forbid that it should be!) but precisely the contrary. But these are the sort of statements which have awakened the impatience of observant Christians, and occasioned a natural, though indeed an unjust prejudice against the persons who hold those views they are urged in maintenance of, and a hasty rejection (still more foolish) of the views themselves. For in this they are making themselves servants to the unguarded precipitancy of others, not judges of it, and masters of the truths which they confound with so many mis-statements. In a word, they are allowing Satan to do just what he meant to do by the partial ignorance of inquiring men.
Page 9

But, perhaps, we are passing our subject. I shall therefore next take notice, merely with this view, of a commonly current work, "The Cry from the Desert," in the hope that it may lead to a more accurate examination of Scripture itself, before any of the writings of men upon this subject are adopted or rejected. This is what I would press and urge upon every one: to apply themselves, for themselves, to the testimony of Scripture, to draw ideas-simply and directly from this (and I can assure them, they will ever find them sanctifying ideas) but trust no man's mind, whether millenarian or antimillenarian; to use the scriptural rule - "to prove all things, and hold fast that which is good"; to adopt nothing unexamined, and to reject nothing unexamined, however weak it may be in its positions. If taken in itself, it may distract; if it lead to the examination of Scripture, it may prove the indirect source of abundant knowledge and grace.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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Old Timer,question...

It's ovious that there's a distinction between Judah amd Israel,why is it you don't acknowledge this?

Do you feel the two houses have been joined back together,if so may I ask you when did this take place?
Yep, you are Israel and the make believe Israel over there is just an illusion.

And that's not Satanic Deception..

LOL
That's right... ANYTHING but the actual Israel right in front of your nose..

LOL
It really helps to study doctrines of devils!
Worse yet, you don't even recognize what it is. A wise believer would RUN from that site - or would have never gone there to begin.
Study the bible for YOURSELF! AT least you won't soak up false doctrines from someone else.

LAMAD
Good advice.........


.
 
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O

Old Timer

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Oh come on.. it's fine to consider any view other than your own to be Satanic Deception..

What's wrong with that?

Satan is real.. he is the deceiver.. right?

Where else would the lie that the church is Israel come from?

Who would want to convince everyone that the nation over there surrounded by its sworn enemies has nothing to do with end times?

That it's not really Israel.. but that the church is now Israel?

Who would want Christians to ignore the simple truth concerning Israel being blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles come in?

Hint:

Who is the god of this present evil world?
 
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BABerean2

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[ It is not my object to enter generally upon the character of this tract. I dare say the writer's mind aimed at more fully exhibiting the purposes of God; but by undue confidence, the result has been to overrun Scripture, and exhibit, as it appears to me, only his own weakness. It is this I would deprecate. The energy of new apprehensions, doubtless, is often valuable; but in man's hands it often degenerates into the truthless and unprofitable display of crude conceptions of our own. Let us compare the following passages, after which we will enter into detail. Page 10

It appears to me, that much of the crudeness of this pamphlet flows from ignorance of the true nature of the Gentile and Jewish dispensations. The throne of David and the throne of His glory are different things, doubtless; but let us see how this subject is pursued by the writer. "There must be," says he, "two comings in judgment; one before, one after the millennium: one to sit on the throne of David, the other on the throne of His glory." But His sitting on the throne of David is not His coming in judgment at all, but the consequence of His judgment of the Gentile nations. But, as proof of the distinction, he refers to the attendants of the Lord - "one," says he, "with His own glory and His saints, the other with the holy angels, and His Father's glory." The passage of Scripture in which this is spoken of furnishes no such distinction. He says, coming with His saints in His own glory is the first coming - coming with the angels in His Father's, the second; the first applying to judgment of antemillenarians. See Mark 8:38. I find, "Whosoever, therefore, shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels." Here, this so-called latter coming is expressly applied to those who have not owned Him during His humiliation; and the same observation may apply to Matthew 16:27. If it be alleged that this is at the raising of the rest of the dead, what shall we say to Luke 9:26? "For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the angels." And on the other hand, what shall we say, if we compare Jude, where He is said to come with ten thousand of His saints to execute judgment on similar offenders? And not only does the voice of the archangel and the trump of God minister to the raising of the dead in Christ at what this statement would call His first coming, but we are expressly told, in the epistle to the Thessalonians, that, when He comes, according to their views (on which we say nothing), antemillennially, when He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and admired in all them that believe, giving rest to those that have suffered with Him in His humiliation - the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels. It appears to me, that this also flows from ignorance of the plan and scope of Scripture, i.e., of the counsels of God in Christ our common Lord. But it proves neglect of Scripture. On the whole, a greater confusion of Scripture, and substitution of human conjectures and supposition, can hardly be supposed, than the latter part of the tract. Page 14

This book is, indeed, a sample of the evil likely to attend upon what is valuable in these inquiries, from crude thoughts untried by Scripture, attached to opinions urged as new to the credit of the writer, which are now familiar to everybody, without any new development of the mind of God in the Scriptures, and assuming a title pretending to speak from God, while it speaks only from man, and that crudely, and does not apply the great facts of these revelations to the correction and improvement of men; but instead of that, uses the notions of them to exalt the holders of them into the only favourites of heaven - thinking everybody is scorning them, whereas, in fact, they are becoming worldly, through their popularity and self-complacency. It is not the inquiry into these subjects I deprecate; but men's imposing upon others conclusions not drawn, but distracting others, from the scriptural statements of the same truths. (from page 18)

But the Morning Watch, prepossessed with its own views, and willing to have Mr. Erskine as a client or ally, has wholly passed by the whole question raised on his book, and not stated his assertions truly but as partisans, and stands itself on a level with the worst conduct of those it accuses. They themselves shall be witnesses. "The editors," they say, i.e., journals opposed to their views, "having refused to debate the subjects like scholars, like gentlemen, or Christians, have chosen their own ground, namely, that of personal claim to public confidence; and into that arena of their own selecting, we must descend after them. "And so indeed they have, and I sorrow for it, for I doubt not they would much edify the church; but they have to learn that Satan can use their weakness, as well as that of their offending brethren." And what shall we say then) if the church, forgetful of Christ's office of intercessor, and of her own high vocation to continue the same in the midst of an offending world, should take upon herself the office of accuser, and retaliate the injuries which she receiveth, instead of meekly bearing and being willing to forgive them? What if the church forget, even among themselves, the offices of neutral forbearance and forgiveness, and rage towards one another with even more bitterness and cruelty than those who care for none of those things? What if the writings the most religious should be the most vindictive, and the society the most religious should be the society most full of judgment and accusation? Then were it not a proof that God's ordinances were changed, that His light was hidden under a bushel, that the salt hath lost its savour, and that the name of God was blasphemed amongst the heathen because of His people, and that the last days were come, and that destruction was about to begin at His own house." Page 20

Darby, J. N., Reflections (1829), Prophetic No. 1
Reflections upon the Prophetic Inquiry and the views advanced in it
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The excerpts above were written by John Nelson Darby and published in the year 1829. Based on his references to Ben-Ezra, Irving, and the publication…”The Morning Watch”, he was obviously stating a viewpoint in opposition to the book, “Coming of Messiah” written by the Jesuit priest, Manuel Lacunza and the teachings of Edward Irving. The above text is quite remarkable due to the fact that John Darby will turn his prophetic viewpoint 180 degrees in the years to come and will be the one who brings many of Irving’s and Lacunza’s views to America.

The text above also stands in direct opposition to dispensationalists like Tommy Ice who have stated on numerous occasions that John Darby had adopted the pretribulational rapture viewpoint during 1827 after falling from his horse. This same statement has been also come from Darby disciple William Kelly and some say from Darby himself in later years. These men have one witness standing in opposition to them. It is John Darby himself whose words speak the truth from the year 1829. He spoke as a Historicist, Amillennial, in oppostion to the new dispensational doctrine being taught by Edward Irving at the Albury conferences, starting in 1826. He gave absolutely no hint of a pretribulational rapture in these writings from 1829.

Other modern dispensationalists have also stated there was no connection between Irving and Darby. It is clear from the above text that Darby was well aware of Irving’s teachings and at this point opposed them. Not only was he reading Lacunza’s book “Coming of Messiah…“, but he was also reading “The Morning Watch” which was published by the Irvingites.

The year 1830 would see the publication of the idea of a pretrib rapture in the Irvingite journal “The Morning Watch” which Darby had read, based on his comments in the above article. This was to be found in the September 1830 issue. It promoted the “vision” of teenager Margaret Macdonald in which she stated that only some “Spirit-filled” believers in the Church would be removed before the tribulation. Many at this time came to refer to it as the “Secret Rapture”.

Since the discovery of written documentation proving the origin of the modern dispensational pretrib rapture, dispensationalists have been desperate to show someone who previously held the same idea. The closest thing was Morgan Edwards who wrote a paper while in seminary that discussed the possibility of a gathering before the tribulation. At the time both Edwards and his seminary professor considered the idea ridiculous. Also, there is no indication that Edwards ever promoted the doctrine.

Dispensationalist Grant Jeffrey produced a work showing that some of the early Church fathers held to a pretrib removal. Sadly he cut out the parts of their writings which showed they held to a posttrib removal. In other words he lied. He must have loved his doctrine more than the truth. http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

Some dispensationalists have claimed other early Church fathers held to a pretrib view by selective quotations. However, under scrutiny these are negated by other quotations.

Dispensationalists did come up with a quotation from someone named Pseudo-Ephraem who seemed to hold a pretrib view. However, there are two problems with this source. First of all, we really do not know who Pseudo-Ephraem was. The name means False Ephraem. Also, according to Professor John C. Reeves, who is a professor of religious texts at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, the version containing the pretrib verses is from the Latin and was written later than the Syrian version which does not contain the pretrib verses. In other words, it is not a reliable source of anything.

That brings us back to Margaret Macdonald and the Irvingites. Writings of the Plymouth Brethren and former Irvingites show a clear link between the “Secret Rapture” from the followers of Edward Irving and the “Secret Rapture” adopted by John Darby. As a matter of fact, this caused a split in the Brethren due to Benjamin Newton’s opposition to the “Secret Rapture”.
PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement. , F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) Read pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418

Like the scene from the movie “The Wizard of Oz” the curtain has been drawn back exposing the one behind the curtain. If a Christian wants to believe a doctrine built around the “vision” of a teenage girl, they have the freedom to do so. However, intentionally hiding the true source of the doctrine is promoting a lie of the enemy.
Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf

Also, we now have documentation which proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that the first person to promote dispensationalism was Edward Irving, who taught some form of the doctrine at the Albury conferences.
Genesis of Dispensational Theology (on YouTube)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee4RS5pDntQ

John Darby was the man who put the “Secret Rapture” together with the dispensational doctrine from Irving and Lacunza. He then became the greatest salesman of the doctrine now known as Dispensationalism. His sales job was more successful in America than it was in the nation of his birth. Can the doctrine withstand the light of truth now revealed by the historical documentation? We are now hearing the wailing and gnashing of teeth from those who are still promoting the doctrine. In some ways they are like the fictional vampires being exposed to sunlight. It is ironic that many of them are now displaying the same bad behavior opposed by Darby in his 1829 paper.
 
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Old Timer

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Old Timer

Will you answer the question?

Why, it's so simple..

Judah is one tribe of the twelve of Israel..

How is this difficult?

But nevermind.. it doesn't matter.. just pretend that YOU are Israel and that the Israel in front of your nose means absolutely nothing..

That's NOT Satanic Deception or anything like that... ;)
 
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Old Timer

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The post trib rapture of the church of God must be correct because it says so there in Matthew and Mark... that those in Judaea shall flee to the mountains and that hopefully it doesn't happen on the sabbath..

And since the church is now Israel.. this is talking about the church in Judaea and evidently those in the church who are concerned with the sabbath day...

Right ?
 
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n2thelight

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Why, it's so simple..

Judah is one tribe of the twelve of Israel..

How is this difficult?

But nevermind.. it doesn't matter.. just pretend that YOU are Israel and that the Israel in front of your nose means absolutely nothing..

That's NOT Satanic Deception or anything like that... ;)

And when may I ask were the two houses joined back together?
 
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Old Timer

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And when may I ask were the two houses joined back together?

Israel's house has been left desolate.. that's if you actually believe the scriptures and the book of Acts which outlines the details for anyone to see.

ISRAEL is presently CUT OFF from the ROOT which is CHRIST..

That's why they're blinded in part and enemies as concerning the gospel..

It's not difficult.. simply ignored and then demonstrated over and over again in those who have become wise in their own conceits.
 
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