The pre-tribulation Rapture theory is a Satanic Deception.

[Old Timer]

The deception is that there will not be a pretrib rapture.You will be among the Christians who will have to go through the Great Tribulation.What about that?

In that case I hope we're close to Judaea so that we can flee to the mountains..

Jesus is the one who will resurrect the dead in Christ and make the gathering/rapture of the Christians still alive but that will happen at the last Trump at the END of the Great Tribulation.That is what the Bible is telling us.
Now if you have been duped by the pretrib rapture cult into thinking that the Last Trump is not the Last Trump but the First Trump.That is your problem.

Well, thanks for these comforting words.

 

[Old Timer]

Then I guess the Bible2 part of the church will be married in the air and then return to earth, right?

 

[TPeterY]

------------------------
Source:
http://biblestudysite.com/rapture2.htm#4
An ominous muse from the author of the Left Behind ‘Rapture’ series
You have all probably heard of the Left Behind series, which is a series of books that gives a play-by-play of the supposed rapture as it happens future yet. The series is classified as Christian Fiction, but many regard it as Biblical prophecy.
Below we take a quote from the author that appeared in CBN news (Christian Broadcast Network), September 23, 2000. CBN News is a supporter of the series and a Rapture believing ministry network. The author of the Left Behind series relates how he experiences strange ‘happenings’ as he writes the on-going 15 book series. He felt that something supernatural was wrong but errantly attributes to satan which may well have been warnings from God:

" I’ve never felt the spiritual battle and oppression as I have writing these books. The enemy can’t be happy about the spiritual results from these books. "
​

-- Jerry B. Jenkins author of the Left Behind series
​

But once we fully realize "the spiritual results from these books" we begin to wonder just who this "enemy" is. Although Jenkins admits he’s not the type to look for a devil under every rock, "I’ve never felt the spiritual battle and oppression as I have writing these books," he says.
When Jenkins sits at his computer to write, he feels totally exhausted. Or his computer, which normally works fine, will suddenly develop multiple problems. "The enemy can’t be happy about the spiritual results from these books," he says.
The Left Behind series has also been printed into a series of children’s books called Left Behind: The Kids, targeted to ages 8 through 12! The ten kids’ titles also have been best sellers.
The novels have sold more than 18 million copies, making them the best-selling Christian fiction series in history. In early October, Left Behind: the Movie Soundtrack hits bookstores, then the video release will be in late October with the Left Behind movie release in February 2001.
Many men (and women) are being used by satan in these end-times to spread lies and false doctrine. The above author of the Left Behind series would do well to observe what the man below is going through after he realized that he was a pawn of satan.
Below is a quotation from Dr. Frank Logsdon, one of the Scholars who worked on the corrupted New American Standard Version Bible translation (NASB or NASV) after he was made aware of the alterations and corruptions that appear in that Bible version. This Bible version was translated from the corrupted (Nestles) Greek text, the same text (different edition) of the NIV New Testament, which is a very popular Bible version with the Rapturists. You can't help pitying the man, but let it serve as a lesson to always be on guard for satan's deceptions, for satan is cunning and deceitful!
"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field..." {Gen 3:1}

Quote of Dr. Logsdon, as found in New Age Bible Versions, by G. Riplinger; preface page 3:
"I must under God renounce every attachment to the New American Standard...I'm afraid I'm in trouble with the Lord...We laid the groundwork; I wrote the format; I helped interview some of the translators; I sat with the translator; I wrote the preface...
I'm in trouble; I cant refute these arguments; its wrong, its terribly wrong; it's frighteningly wrong; and what am I going to do about it?...I can no longer ignore these criticisms [of the corruptions in the New American Standard Version Bible (NASB/NASV)] I am hearing and I can't refute them...
When questions began to reach me at first I was quite offended. However, in attempting to answer, I began to sense that something was not right about the NASV. Upon investigation, I wrote my very dear friend, Mr. Lockman, explaining that I was forced to renounce all attachment to the NASV...The product is grievous to my heart and helps to complicate matters in these already troublous times...The deletions are absolutely frightening...there are so many...Are we so naive that we do not suspect Satanic deception in all of this?...
I don't want anything to do with it...[T]he finest leaders that we have today...haven't gone into it [the new version's use of the corrupted (Nestles) Greek text, the same text (different edition) of the NIV New Testament], just as I hadn't gone into it...That's how easily one can be deceived...I'm going to talk to him [Dr. George Sweeting, then president of Moody Bible Institute]about these things...
[Y]ou can say the Authorized Version[KJV] is absolutely correct. How correct? 100% correct! If you must stand against everyone else, stand."

--Dr. Frank Logsdon; NASB/NASV Bible Editor​

Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKAfXdb5LsA

 

[Douggg]

Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not have her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Can any rapturist explain to me, what does after the tribulation mean?

At the very end of, no delay, no gap.

 

[n2thelight]

What's the subject of the below

II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

Our gathering to Christ,correct

II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."

What Day ? The Day of Christ correct

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

What day shall not come ? The day of Christ correct..And that happens when?After the man of sin is revealed,correct...

Now the tribulation is when the man of sin,ie ,the anti-christ is here,so can you please tell me since you all are already deceived,how do you all (rapturist)stand a chance?

II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

This is the deception,satan claiming to be Christ,not my words...

II Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth,"

II Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie;"

What cause? Truth,correct...And God shall do what?Send strong delusion correct..

And you shall believe what?A lie correct?And what's the lie?

If you want to believe a lie, God will allow it; in fact he will help you into the system of deceptions Satan will bring on the earth. Do you really think God will come here and personally show you, and talk to you when you refuse to believe His Word, when He gave it in such detail through the prophets and His Son.

If you desire to believe that your going to fly out of here, and refuse His word, He will so block your mind that you will not be capable of understanding truth. God will send the "strong delusion" over your mind. The strong delusion is an act of love given by God for your protection.

Paul just told us when to expect Christ,and he said we gather when?After satan is revealed correct....So can you please tell me

Keep believing in this rapture,when it's nowhere in God's Word,and watch what happens....

 

[n2thelight]

I'm one of those deceived literalists who thinks that it means exactly what it says..

Like for those in Judaea to flee to the mountains and to pray that it doesn't come on the sabbath..

literally..

Soooo if Christ comes after the trib(exactly as it says)do tell how do you all escape it?

 

[Old Timer]

Soooo if Christ comes after the trib(exactly as it says)do tell how do you all escape it?

It's a small matter of context..

The church of God did not even exist when this was explained to His disciples.. the context is clearly Israel.. those being in Judaea and the mention of the sabbath Day..

IF those things matter.. that is..

AND I understand that you believe in British Israelism.. so the real Israel isn't really Israel.. you are..

To me that's another small matter..

 

[n2thelight]

It's a small matter of context..

The church of God did not even exist when this was explained to His disciples.. the context is clearly Israel.. those being in Judaea and the mention of the sabbath Day..

IF those things matter.. that is..

AND I understand that you believe in British Israelism.. so the real Israel isn't really Israel.. you are..

To me that's another small matter..

So what you're say is,this was'nt written for the Church,it was written to the Jew's,correct?

 

[Old Timer]

So what you're say is,this was'nt written for the Church,it was written to the Jew's,correct?

No, what I'm saying is that it is written about Israel.. like those in Judaea, and those who do actually keep the sabbath day..

That sort of thing..

AND again I understand that this probably doesn't make a lot of sense to you when you believe things like British Israelism.. and the real Israel is right in front of you everyday..

That must be awfully confusing..

 

[Old Timer]

Then when I figure those things with the fact that you deny the bodily resurrection of the dead.. and believe that you existed before you were born (like God did)..

I feel as though you must be thoroughly confused..:o

 

[Old Timer]

Either that or like you say..

I just don't get it..

 

[n2thelight]

No, what I'm saying is that it is written about Israel.. like those in Judaea, and those who do actually keep the sabbath day..

That sort of thing..

AND again I understand that this probably doesn't make a lot of sense to you when you believe things like British Israelism.. and the real Israel is right in front of you everyday..

That must be awfully confusing..

Sooo it already happened?Not confused at all,Matthew makes perfect sense to me,one of many reason's not to believe in a rapture...

And sense Israel and Judah have yet to be joined back together,I think it's you that's confused....

 

[n2thelight]

Then when I figure those things with the fact that you deny the bodily resurrection of the dead.. and believe that you existed before you were born (like God did)..

I feel as though you must be thoroughly confused..:o

Again not confused at all,this body(flesh)goes back to dirt where it came from,and it's not going to come back together again...

Did'nt you listen to Paul when he said you have two bodies,and one leaves at death,to go back to the Father?Would you like for me to pull it up for you again?

 

[TPeterY]

I didn't read the whole thread (it's 80 pages, people)... but I just wanted to chime in here. Yes, I agree that the pre-trib rapture is a false doctrine.

Michael Meurett does a good job of explaining how it is simply not biblical. You can listen to this audio here.

Hi Lilmc,

I listened to the entire audio and just have a question to ask you.

"Do you a firmly believe the Pre-Trib rapture is a false doctrine or just moderate and open-minded to the truth?"

Make this two questions, "what scripture(s) causes you to believe the Pre-Trib rapture is false?"

I'm asking because I can refute every argument with scriptures from the bible against every arguments the guy made in his audio. (Don't mean to sound arrogant, but just trying to make a point about his false accusations).

He literally pulled scriptures out of content and made his own interpretation, and I can prove and expose that.

However, I can't help anyone see the truth in what the bible is saying if they're already firmly set in their belief.



.

 

[BABerean2]

Are you sure?

I mean a fifteen year old girl did say so..

That's like undeniable evidence isn't it?

That's where it comes from no doubt about it.

Berean says so.

Bah, Humbug!

Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf
(pages 12-13)

Here is the only surviving letter of Margaret MacDonald describing her visions.

"It was first the awful state of the land that was pressed upon me. I saw the blindness and infatuation of the people to be very great. I felt the cry of Liberty just to be the hiss of the serpent, to drown them in perdition.
It was just `no God.' I repeated the words, Now there is distress of nations, with perplexity, the seas and the waves roaring, men's hearts failing them for fear - now look out for the sign of the Son of man. Here I was made to stop and cry out, 0 it is not known what the sign of the Son of man is; the people of God think they are waiting, but they know not what it is. I felt this needed to be revealed, and that there was great darkness and error about it; but suddenly what it was burst upon me with a glorious light I saw it was just the Lord himself descending from Heaven with a shout, just the glorified man. even Jesus; but that all must, as Stephen was, be filled with the Holy Ghost, hat they might look up, and see the brightness of the Father's glory. I saw the error to be, that men think that it will be something seen by the natural eye; but 'tis spiritual discernment that is needed, the eye of God in his people. Many passages were revealed, in a light in which I had not before seen them. I repeated, `Now is the kingdom of Heaven like unto ten virgins, who went forth to meet the Bridegroom, five wise and five foolish; they that were foolish took their lamps, but took no oil with them; but they that were wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.' 'But be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is; and be not drunk with wine wherein is excess, but be filled with the Spirit.' This was the oil the wise virgins took in their vessels - this is the light to be kept burning - the light of God - that we may discern that which cometh not with observation to the natural eye. Only those who have the light of God within them will see the sign of his appearance. No need to follow them who say, see here, or see there, for his day shall be as the lightning to those in whom the living Christ is. 'Tis Christ in us that will lift us up - he is the light - 'tis only those that are alive in him that will be caught up to meet him in the air. I saw that we must be in the Spirit, that we might see spiritual things. John was in the Spirit, when he saw a throne set in Heaven. - But I saw that the glory of the ministration of the Spirit had not been known. I repeated frequently, but the spiritual temple must and shall be reared, and the fullness of Christ be poured into his body, and then shall we be caught up to meet him. Oh none will be counted worthy of this calling but his body, which is the church, and which must be a candlestick all of gold. I often said, Oh the glorious inbreaking of God which is now about to burst on this earth; Oh the glorious temple which is now about to be reared, the bride adorned for her husband; and Oh what a holy, holy bride she must be, to be prepared for such a glorious bridegroom. I said, Now shall the people of God have to do with realities - now shall the glorious mystery of God in our nature be known - now shall it be known what it is for man to be glorified. I felt that the revelation of Jesus Christ had yet to be opened up - it is not knowledge about God that it contains, but it is an entering into God - I saw that there was a glorious breaking in of God to be. I felt as Elijah surrounded with chariots of fire. I saw as it were, the spiritual temple reared, and the Head Stone brought forth with shoutings of grace, grace, unto it. It was a glorious light above the brightness of the sun, that shone round about me. I felt that those who were filled with the spirit could see spiritual things, and feel walking in the midst of them, while those who had not the Spirit could see nothing - so that two shall be in one bed, the one taken and the other left, because the one has the light of God within while the other cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven. I saw the people of God in an awfully dangerous situation, surrounded by nets and entanglements, about to be tried, and many about to be deceived and fall. Now will THE WICKED be revealed, with all power and signs and lying wonders, so that if it were possible the very elect will be deceived. - This is the fiery trial which is to try us. - It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus; but Oh it will be a fiery trial. Every soul will be shaken to the very centre. The enemy will try to shake in every thing we have believed - But the trial of real faith will be found to honour and praise and glory. Nothing but what is of God will stand. The stony-ground hearers will be made manifest - the love of many will wax cold I frequently said that night, and often since, now shall the awful sight of a false Christ be seen on this earth, and nothing but the living Christ in us can detect this awful attempt of the enemy to deceive - or it is with all deceivableness of unrighteousness he will work - he will have a counterpart for every part of God's truth and an imitation for every work of the Spirit. The Spirit must and will be poured out on the church, that she may be purified and filled with God - and just in proportion as the Spirit of God works, so will he when our Lord anoints men with power, so will he. This is particularly the nature of the trial, through which those are to pass who will be counted worthy to stand before the Son of man. There will be outward trial too, but `tis principally temptation. It is brought on by the outpouring of the Spirit, and will just increase in proportion as the Spirit is poured out. The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept. I frequently said, Oh be filled with the Spirit - have the light of God in you, that you may detect satan - be full of eyes within - be clay in the hands of the potter - submit to be filled, filled with God This will build the temple. It is not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit saith the Lord. This will fit us to enter into the marriage supper of the lamb. I saw it to be the will of God that all should be filled. But what hindered the real life of God from being received by his people, was their turning from Jesus who is the way to the Father. They were not entering in by the door. For he is faithful who hath said, by me if any man enter in he shall find pasture. They were passing the cross, through which every drop of the Spirit of God flows to us. All power that comes not through the blood of Christ is not of God. When I say, they are looking from the cross, I feel that there is much in it - they turn from the blood of the Lamb, by which we overcome, and in which our robes are washed and made white. There are low views of God's holiness, and ceasing to condemn sin in the flesh, and a looking from him who humbled himself, and made himself of no reputation. Oh! it is needed, much needed at present, a leading back to the cross, I saw that night, and often since, that there will be an outpouring of the Spirit on the body, such as has not been, a baptism of fire, that all the dross may be put away. Oh there must and will be such an indwelling of the living God as has not been - the servants of God sealed in their foreheads - great conformity to Jesus - his holy holy image seen in his people just the bride made comely, by his comeliness put upon her. This is what we are at present made to pray much for, that speedily we may all be made ready to meet our Lord in the air - and it will be. Jesus wants his bride. His desire is toward us. He that shall come, will come, and will not tarry.
Amen and Amen. Even so come Lord Jesus."

 

[Old Timer]

I get chills every time I read it..

 

[Old Timer]

Sooo it already happened?

Oh dear no..

Not confused at all,Matthew makes perfect sense to me,one of many reason's not to believe in a rapture...

And since you're a true Israelite and the real Israel isn't.. this must make sense.

And sense Israel and Judah have yet to be joined back together,I think it's you that's confused....

Or that Israel is blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles come in..

 

[Old Timer]

Don't you realize that eschatology has a lot to do with Israel being delivered in that Day?

Oooooppps.. almost forgot.. you're Israel..

This is confusing..:o

 

[n2thelight]

Hi Lilmc,

I listened to the entire audio and just have a question to ask you.

"Do you a firmly believe the Pre-Trib rapture is a false doctrine or just moderate and open-minded to the truth?"

Make this two questions, "what scripture(s) causes you to believe the Pre-Trib rapture is false?"

I'm asking because I can refute every argument with scriptures from the bible against every arguments the guy made in his audio. (Don't mean to sound arrogant, but just trying to make a point about his false accusations).

He literally pulled scriptures out of content and made his own interpretation, and I can prove and expose that.

However, I can't help anyone see the truth in what the bible is saying if they're already firmly set in their belief.



.

Not Lilmc but do refute the below for me

What's the subject of the below

II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

Our gathering to Christ,correct

II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."

What Day ? The Day of Christ correct

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

What day shall not come ? The day of Christ correct..And that happens when?After the man of sin is revealed,correct...

Now the tribulation is when the man of sin,ie ,the anti-christ is here,so can you please tell me since you all are already deceived,how do you all (rapturist)stand a chance?

II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

This is the deception,satan claiming to be Christ,not my words...

II Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth,"

II Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie;"

What cause? Truth,correct...And God shall do what?Send strong delusion correct..

And you shall believe what?A lie correct?And what's the lie?

If you want to believe a lie, God will allow it; in fact he will help you into the system of deceptions Satan will bring on the earth. Do you really think God will come here and personally show you, and talk to you when you refuse to believe His Word, when He gave it in such detail through the prophets and His Son.

If you desire to believe that your going to fly out of here, and refuse His word, He will so block your mind that you will not be capable of understanding truth. God will send the "strong delusion" over your mind. The strong delusion is an act of love given by God for your protection.

Paul just told us when to expect Christ,and he said we gather when?After satan is revealed correct....So can you please tell me

Keep believing in this rapture,when it's nowhere in God's Word,and watch what happens....

 

[n2thelight]

Don't you realize that eschatology has a lot to do with Israel being delivered in that Day?

Oooooppps.. almost forgot.. you're Israel..

This is confusing..:o

Not confusing to me...Where is Israel and where is Judah?

Told ya you gota get that Gentile thing understood....And realize the fact that not all 12 tribes were Jew's and then understand that only Judah returned to the nation state over in the Middle East....

The rest won't return until Christ does,......