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The Partial Preterist Believers Safe House

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by 1disciple, Apr 15, 2013.

  1. Doctor Strangelove

    Doctor Strangelove Senior Member

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    A very serious problem is that the dispensationalists have the sacrifices being re-instituted during what they think of as the millennium. This means that Christ's sacrifice was not enough. I have also heard dispensationalist teachers say that in the millennium, the age of grace is over and it is back to the law, only this time with Jesus ruling on an earthly throne. I have heard some say that the earth will be restored to perfect conditions and this will make it easy for many people to obey all of the law. So according to this way of thinking, Christ's sacrifice was not enough and evidently in the future people will be saved by keeping the law. I have observed that certain legalistic churches are drawn to this type of thinking, after all, the "millennium" does away with that awkward business of grace and people are forced to save themselves by obeying the law.
     
  2. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    I've heard some of that. It's mind boggling! One of the biggest proponents of this is Tim LaHaye with his "Left Behind" series.

    You're right it takes you back to what Paul said in Galatians 1:21
    21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”


    I do think there's like a reformation happening in eschatology now. As Christian's are really rethinking as they really reading the scriptures on their own. They're seeing the problems primarily in dispensationalism...I certainly did.

    God be praised!
     
  3. mannysee

    mannysee Guest

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    After reading the group title a few times to get my head around it, I'm not sure if I'm correct posting here.

    Anyway I enjoy reading Kim Riddlebarger's writings.
    Am definitely amil, post-trib.

    Someone above mentioned Hal's book. Ages ago I tracked down a copy of a book titled The Lion and The Lamb on Planet Earth by Rodney Miller (amil). It's a great book (written in '81?) which critiques Hal, and others.

    First the physical, then the spiritual
     
  4. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    You're in the right place because I more amil than partial preterist...but amil does have a degree of partial preterism views.

    Welcome aboard.

    I enjoy Riddlebarger's "Amillennialism 101" series. If you haven't heard it, here's a link:
    Search | Monergism
     
  5. Keachian

    Keachian On Sabbatical

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    Doesn't amillenialism also suppose atribulationism?
     
  6. mannysee

    mannysee Guest

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    By atrib., do you mean tribulation always existing to some degree; and increasing?
     
  7. Keachian

    Keachian On Sabbatical

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    Yes
     
  8. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    I think the "atrib" is opposed to the supposed "7 year tribulation" primarily.

    The amil position holds that being a Christian leads to tribulation throughout life to varying degrees.
     
  9. Keachian

    Keachian On Sabbatical

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    That too
     
  10. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    Matthew 18:21, 22
    21 Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
    22 Jesus *said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.


    I remember not really giving significance to this passage many times as I read it. Simply thinking the point was to just be willing to forgive. Then I heard Hank Hannegraf speaking to this passage, and the significance just jumped out to me.

    What we have in this passage, Is Jesus speaking to his fulfillment of the 490 years (or "seventy sevens"), of Daniel 9:24!!!

    When our Lord goes to the cross, He completes the 490 years! This is followed by His forgiveness to Israel as He commissions the apostles to preach the gospel, where does He have them start first, but in Jerusalem!!

    This is truly the forgiveness the Lord spoke to Peter of, as His church is born to the very people that crucified Him!

    Peter begins at Jerusalem on Pentecost and and preaches the gospel to a tremendous gathering of the Jews!

    That's the forgiveness our Lord was speaking of!!! :thumbsup: :amen: :clap:
     
  11. mannysee

    mannysee Guest

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    Hmmn. Not sure if I completely agree with you/Hank there, but Jesus could have been thinking secondarily of that Daniel passage.
    Reason is because Peter's question was about forgiving his brother.

    My first thought would be that Christs' "70 times" answer, carries the forceful expression of forgiving his brother completely and always.

    I'm all for NT scripture interpreting the Old, but if one is going to see a sum in the NT, and find its meaning in the OT, then I think one ought to be consistent in this approach.

    What I'm saying here, is that if there exists any cross-testament examples of such number usage where there is clearly a difference in meaning/application, then this 490 understanding may not be correct.

    Anyway, I'm still learning and reading.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2014
  12. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    I don't think Jesus said things without purpose. Daniel 9:24 says:
    24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

    The seventy weeks are in weeks of years literally "seventy sevens". What brings about atonement (forgiveness) for iniquity other than a sacrifice...which Jesus would do.

    Jesus answer to Peter flows perfectly with all he taught on forgiveness.

    I really don't think Jesus said this for any reason other than what He came to accomplish...His death for the forgiveness of sins.
     
  13. SayaOtonashi

    SayaOtonashi Newbie

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    Well, What of full prerist to? I would like to ask them something. If we think about it. The gosepl has to be preach to the whole world and yet the bible makes it clear they were talking about local land in the original words. No only that but Jesus say the generation will not pass and in the bible 40 years was an generation.
     
  14. SayaOtonashi

    SayaOtonashi Newbie

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  15. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    I can't accept that view. As an amillennialist, that agrees with *some* points of partial preterism I hold the millennium began when Jesus annouced He had "all authority" given to Him. That was Matthew 24:18:
    18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

    This is the point of Psalm 2:7-12, and Also Hebrews 1. The millenium started when our Lord was resurrected after becoming the sacrifice for sin, instituting the New Covenant, and receiving all authority from the Father!
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2014
  16. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    Why is it that futurist ignore the fact that God says Israel broke the covenant? This is mind boggling! Especially when God told Moses before they went into the Promised Land they would break it.

    Deuteronomy 31:14-18
    14 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Behold, the time for you to die is near; call Joshua, and present yourselves at the tent of meeting, that I may commission him.” So Moses and Joshua went and presented themselves at the tent of meeting.
    15 The Lord appeared in the tent in a pillar of cloud, and the pillar of cloud stood at the doorway of the tent.
    16 The Lord said to Moses, “Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.
    17 Then My anger will be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them and hide My face from them, and they will be consumed, and many evils and troubles will come upon them; so that they will say in that day, ‘Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have come upon us?’
    18 But I will surely hide My face in that day because of all the evil which they will do, for they will turn to other gods.


    In the prophets God tells them they did it:

    *Jeremiah 11:10:
    They have turned back to the iniquities of their ancestors who refused to hear My words, and they have gone after other gods to serve them; the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken My covenant which I made with their fathers.”

    *Jeremiah 22:8, 9:
    8 “Many nations will pass by this city; and they will say to one another, ‘Why has the Lord done thus to this great city?’
    9 Then they will answer, ‘Because they forsook the covenant of the Lord their God and bowed down to other gods and served them.’”


    Ezekiel 16:58, 59:
    58 You have borne the penalty of your lewdness and abominations,” the Lord declares.
    59 For thus says the Lord God, “I will also do with you as you have done, you who have despised the oath by breaking the covenant.


    Those are just a few places where God says they broke the covenant, yet God keeps reaching out to them to keep the covenant.

    God sends Jesus into the world, He dies for the sins of the world (even though we know all the world will not receive it), and insttitutes a New Covenant.

    It's mind boggling!!
     
  17. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    This is a man that really has some insight on symbolism in scripture...particularly eschatology, where the apocalyptic symbolism has to be understood properly. As with anyone listen, search the scriptures, and take from this sermon what you can agree with...:thumbsup:

    Desert Springs Church | Messages | May 19, 2007

    If you've never heard G. K. Beale, you're in for a treat.
     
  18. random person

    random person 1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20

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    WOOOOOOOO! :D

    How did I manage to overlook this sticky thread, nice to hang out with Christians that aren't searching the news for the latest developments in Armageddon.
     
  19. Fenwick

    Fenwick Non Nisi Te Domine

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    Tell me about it.
     
  20. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    This too, is an issue in eschatology because of what I think is improper comparing of scripture with scripture.

    Noted amillennial theologian Meredith Kline shows that the "first resurrection" of Revelation 20:5 is our spiritual awakening...this is article is a little "heady", but I think it makes a great point:

    The First Resurrection | Meredith G. Kline Resource Site

    If you're not familiar with Kline's works, and you're interested, go here:

    Meredith G. Kline Resource Site

    "BLESSED AND HOLY IS THE ONE WHO HAS A PART IN THE FIRST RESURRECTION, ON THESE, THE SECOND DEATH HAS NO POWER..."

    :amen: :clap:
     
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