The Order of Salavation

[ozso]

I believe our public confession is of utmost importance - that can occur without water - but why resist the words of Jesus by avoiding baptism. I believe if the thief on the cross did not speak to Jesus, he would be in hell - our words cement our beliefs. Although I was baptized as an infant, I was convicted to be re-baptized as an adult and give a speech at that event. Shalom

It's not about avoiding anything or trying to get to heaven by the skin of our teeth. It's about what salvation consists of.

Does it consist of belief and faith in the final atonement of Christ alone?

Or does it consist of faith in the final atonement of Christ, plus baptism?

Or does it consist of faith in the final atonement of Christ, plus baptism, plus commitment, obedience, perseverance, and works?

 

[John Mullally]

It's not about avoiding anything or trying to get to heaven by the skin of our teeth. It's about what salvation consists of.

Does it consist of belief and faith in the final atonement of Christ alone?

Or does it consist of faith in the final atonement of Christ, plus baptism?

Or does it consist of faith in the final atonement of Christ, plus baptism, plus commitment, obedience, perseverance, and works?

Good question. I preach your third line in hopes that they will join a church that will get them to your fourth line where fruit is produced.

 

[d taylor]

From what I've heard him say, even if someone chooses to stop believing, they can't lose their salvation. No one and nothing can take it away from you and you can't take it away from yourself. But yes, there's also the catch that if someone stops believing, they probably weren't really saved.

Yes, and with Charles Ryrie too. Hodges and Ryrie also countered MacArthur's books on the subject with books of their own.

If he did say that someone stops believing they can't lose their salvation. I would be suprised to here that from him, but you may be right.

 

[Chaleb]

, there is still a need for perseverance.

The Gospel is not.....>"believe and persevere"

It if was, as Legalist's teach, Galatians 1:8 then it would not be "The GIFT of Salvation"

Salvation is a Gift, and you dont work for a gift, you RECEIVE IT.

The working that follows salvation, is our DISCIPLESHIP, not our Salvation.

JESUS is Salvation..., and not your silly works and self effort.

We do this...>"present our bodies a living sacrifice",.. not to be saved or to stay saved, but but because we ARE saved.

Listen..

All you brought to God when He saved you, was your dirty rotten stinking sins..
So, its a fool's game to then say..."ok, NOW i have to work so that God will keep me".

Hey, GOD saved you when you are "yet a sinner"...

READER.....= You have to THINK and not always just play the victim of some Cult's idea of salvation that denies the Cross.

 

[Dah'veed]

James 2:19 gets quoted a lot, but it says demons also believe there is one God, not that demons believe they are saved through the blood of Christ.

Matthew 7:21 gets quoted a lot too. But ironically it's about those who did lots of amazing good works being denied - in essence that good works don't get you into heaven.

What do you and Doug mean by "intellectual assent"?

Although they knew God, they didn’t honor God or thank him. Instead, their reasoning became pointless, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Rom 1:21

 

[Dah'veed]

The Gospel is not.....>"believe and persevere"
It if was, as Legalist's teach, Galatians 1:8 then it would not be "The GIFT of Salvation"
Salvation is a Gift, and you dont work for a gift, you RECEIVE IT.
JESUS is Salvation..., and not your silly works and self effort.
The working that follows salvation, is our DISCIPLESHIP, not our Salvation.

And how would anyone arrive at this conclusion without remaining in the faith? Isaiah 25:9

Abraham patiently endured and obtained the promise. Heb 6:15
He saw My day and rejoiced. John 8:56

Through Him we have received grace...Rom 1:5
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever...it is good that the heart be established by grace. Heb 13:8-9

 

[ozso]

If he did say that someone stops believing they can't lose their salvation. I would be suprised to here that from him, but you may be right.

I thought that's what I heard him say, but I'm not sure.

 

[Chaleb]

And how would anyone arrive at this conclusion without remaining in the faith? Isaiah 25:9

Abraham patiently endured and obtained the promise. Heb 6:15

Being born again is how you remain "in Christ"., as its the only way to get there.

Also, Jesus is the "Author and finisher of our faith".

Also, "God who started salvation in the born again, will himself be Faithful to complete it'.


Salvation is Jesus.
Not something you do to try to save yourself, Dah'veed.

 

[Chaleb]

Abraham patiently endured and obtained the promise. Heb 6:15

Abraham is the "father of our Faith"
Abraham was "Justified by faith"., because He BELIEVE GOD and it was "counted to him (his faith) as Righteousness"

 

[Chaleb]

Although they knew God, they didn’t honor God or thank him. Instead, their reasoning became pointless, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Rom 1:21

That verse is explaining that Creation proves the existence of God, and man in general has no excuse for unbelief.

This...

""""For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.""""

 

[ozso]

Good question. I preach your third line in hopes that they will join a church that will get them to your fourth line where fruit is produced.

One would hope the fourth line is an inevitable result of the third. And believe me I'm all for the third and fourth when it comes to our life in Christ. It really doesn't make any sense to me to want to be a Christian and not want to be committed, obedient, do works, bear fruit, and persevere.

 

[Chaleb]

If he did say that someone stops believing they can't lose their salvation. I would be suprised to here that from him, but you may be right.

Jesus is Salvation, not your faith.

Faith is not the Savior.
Faith didn't die on the Cross for you., and neither did Water Baptism or Commandments.
God is the Savior who saves us through our faith.....ONCE........just once, as proven by being BORN AGAIN. as a "new Creation" "In Christ".

Being Born again is the only proof that God has saved you, and this is a birth.....its a spiritual birth, and BIRTH can't be ended by how you think or behave, later.

You can't be "un-born again".

There are NO born again in Hell.
There are no Christ Rejectors, (never born again) in Heaven.

 

[d taylor]

Jesus is Salvation, not your faith.

Faith is not the Savior.
Faith didn't die on the Cross for you., and neither did Water Baptism or Commandments.
God is the Savior who saves us through our faith.....ONCE........just once, as proven by being BORN AGAIN. as a "new Creation" "In Christ".

Being Born again is the only proof that God has saved you, and this is a birth.....its a spiritual birth, and BIRTH can't be ended by how you think or behave, later.

You can't be "un-born again".

There are NO born again in Hell.
There are no Christ Rejectors, (never born again) in Heaven.

Not sure why you quoted my post as i was not even writing about what you are addressing. I was actually replying to a post by MMXX about a post he wrote about John MacArthur and something he (MMXX) said he had heard or read about John MacArthur and the security of the believer.

 

[Chaleb]

Not sure why you quoted my post as i was not even writing about what you are addressing. I was actually replying to a post by MMXX about a post he wrote about John MacArthur and something he (MMXX) said he had heard or read about John MacArthur and the security of the believer.

I replied to your post because its a good opportunity to explain Salvation. and thank you for the opportunity.

A lot of people who dont understand that = Jesus is Salvation, and being born again confirms it.... believe and teach that salvation can be lost.

I have no idea what MacArther teaches., but on forums, i'd say that ABout 2% of the members understand "born again" "in Christ" "seated in heavenly places"...>"one with God'..
So, because they dont understand Redemption at all, you have about 98% who are devoted to trying to prove that salvation can be lost.
This is one of the worst aspects about "christian" forums, as most poeple on them, dont trust in Christ to Keep them saved.
What is that?
That is broken faith...."fallen from Grace"........being "in the Flesh"......Paul teaches.

Here is how broken faith sounds......"Yeah, Yeah, i know that Christ saved me, but now i have to do do do do do, all this stuff, to stay saved......like abide, and endure, and keep commandments and law....."""

Hear that? That is broken faith.

 

[d taylor]

-​

A few articles on assurance and the last one on Lordship (MacArthur)

Assurance Made Simple – Grace Evangelical Society

Assurance: Of the Essence of Saving Faith – Grace Evangelical Society

When Assurance Is Not Assurance – Grace Evangelical Society

Don’t Base Your Assurance on Feelings – Grace Evangelical Society

Bad Theology Will Make You Sick (Rom 10:9) – Grace Evangelical Society

 

[Dah'veed]

Being born again is how you remain "in Christ"., as its the only way to get there.

Yes, renewal is in Christ. Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, 1 John 5:1

Also, Jesus is the "Author and finisher of our faith".

Therefore, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance, looking to Jesus,...
Who endured the cross and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb 12:1-2

Also, "God who started salvation in the born again, will himself be Faithful to complete it'.

He takes away the first that He may establish the second. By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Heb 10:9-10

Salvation is Jesus.
Not something you do to try to save yourself, Dah'veed.

If you could save yourself, Christ died in vain.
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey the gospel of Jesus Christ. Heb 5:9

 

[Chaleb]

Therefore, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance, looking to Jesus,...
Who endured the cross and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb 12:1-2
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey the gospel of Jesus Christ. Heb 5:9

As im trying to clearly hear what you are trying to prove........it seems that you are trying to prove that works of self effort, that you perform after you are saved, is how you believe you stay saved.

Is that what you believe?
That Jesus begins your salvation and then its up to you to do the rest so that you keep yourself saved or not?

 

[Dah'veed]

Yes, renewal is in Christ. Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, 1 John 5:1
Therefore, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance, looking to Jesus,...
Who endured the cross and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb 12:1-2
He takes away the first that He may establish the second. By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Heb 10:9-10
If you could save yourself, Christ died in vain.
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey the gospel of Jesus Christ. Heb 5:9

As im trying to clearly hear what you are trying to prove........it seems that you are trying to prove that works of self effort, that you perform after you are saved, is how you believe you stay saved.

Is that what you believe?
That Jesus begins your salvation and then its up to you to do the rest so that you keep yourself saved or not?

What I'm clearly saying is that Jesus is the beginning, the firstborn of all creation, in whom we have redemption.

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation; 2 Cor 5:17-18

 

[Chaleb]

Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation; 2 Cor 5:17-18

And the "ministry of reconciliation" is this..
I'll quote it all, as you left some of it out, for some reason, Dah'veed.

"""""God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their SIN unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.""""

Then read Romans 4:8

 

[Chaleb]

If you could save yourself, Christ died in vain.

And just like you can't save yourself, you also can't keep yourself saved.