The Order of Salavation

Doug Brents

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Well, im new to this forum but im old to "theology".
This particular forum is mostly Catholics and Calvinists.
So, there was a 50/50 chance that You are a Catholic, as Catholics are all about "the law". and "commandments".

So, when i hear a person teaching "we must keep commandments and law" but does not make the distinction between the CROSS as God's Salvation, and that law and commandment keeping that is your WORKS..... then, im not hearing the person understanding the difference between

Their Discipleship, which is that law and commandment keeping and that "present your body as a living sacrifice"..


VS

God's Salvation, that is ONLY The Cross of Christ, the Blood Atonement, and the "Gift of Salvation".

This : John 14:6
I am an oddity in this forum then, for I am neither catholic (papist) nor calvinist. I am a Christian, belonging neither to a particular religious sect nor to a “denomination”.

Since you are new, I will recap the position that I find in Scripture that most people who call themselves Christians today ignore.

The blood of Jesus shed on the cross is the only means by which man can be saved (synonymous with: forgiven, justified, united with Christ, and other similar terms). Without the blood of Jesus we would all be hopelessly lost for eternity. But His blood is not received automatically. Its reception is conditional upon our faith (Eph 2:8-9). Without faith we cannot please God or receive forgiveness. And faith is not passive, nor is it a purely mental experience. Faith must be acted upon to be complete, alive, and worthwhile (James 2:26).

A review of all the passages that talk about salvation and what is required to receive it, will identify four things: Belief (which in every usage talking about salvation comes from the Greek word “pistis” which means faith), Repentance (Acts 3:19), Confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and Baptism (Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16). It is during baptism that the Holy Spirit removes our sin, unites us with Christ Jesus’ death and resurrection, and adds us to the Church (Rom 6:1-4, Col 2:11-14). And the baptism referred to here is in water, (Acts 22:16, 1 Pet 3:21, Eph 5:26, Acts 8:36-38).

It is not the water, but the Blood of Christ which we encounter only when we are baptized, that saves us.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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Notice they are not confessing sin or chasing Moses Law and commandments.
Instead, they have a MIND (the Renewed mind) that understands their SonShip Position in God. "IN Christ".
I agree we do not need to follow the law to the letter to be saved. But there are certain things the believer still needs to obey. There are obvious commands like don't murder, don't steal, etc. Then the following:

Act 15:28-29 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.

1Co 6:9-11 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Sonship does not mean we have a license to sin, we must avoid it, and if we don't "will not inherit the kingdom of God", we must be quick to repent and leave our sins behind if we get caught up in it.
 
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Dah'veed

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Having heard the word of truth, the gospel of salvation through Jesus Christ —in whom having also believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. Eph 1:13

Everyone who does what is right is accepted by Him. You know The word which God sent to the people of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all ...

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. Acts 10:35-44
never. You can never be accepted by God based on anything you do, as all your works are "filthy rags" and self righteousness, if you try to shove these in God's Face as "here is all my good works God, now ACCEPT ME".
Cain tried that, and God told Cain..>"GET OUT".
Cain, as you recall did not rely on the providence of faith. If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? Gen 4:7
Jesus said of these law keeping commandment keeping self righteous religious people who whine endlessly about "the law" and "commandments".. and who trust in water to wash away their sin....
"depart from me, I never knew you".
Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; Heb 11:4
 
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Chaleb

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Cain, as you recall did not rely on the providence of faith. If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? Gen 4:7

Here is the issue with "self righteousness".

"ALL have SINNED"

See that?

That means that you, me, your mother, the Pope, my dad, ......all of us...>"Have SINNED".

So, there goes YOUR Righteousness.........= ZERO.


This means that when you give to the poor and go to church every sundy, you go there as a "SINNER"


God, became a man, and went to the Cross, to Live the Holy Life, under the Law, perfectly, that you didn't , Dah'veen, as you are a SINNER, needing to be saved.

Christ , who is God on the Cross, died for your SINS< because you are a SINNER.
So, never pretend you have any righteousness, other then what God has provided to the world as...

"The Gift of Righteousness" who is JESUS.
 
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Dah'veed

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Here is the issue with "self righteousness".
"ALL have SINNED"
See that?
That means that you, me, your mother, the Pope, my dad, ......all of us...>"Have SINNED".
So, there goes YOUR Righteousness.........= ZERO.
Yes. You, me, your mother, and the Pope have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
God, became a man, and went to the Cross, to Live the Holy Life, under the Law, perfectly, that you didn't , Dah'veen, as you are a SINNER, needing to be saved.
Christ , who is God on the Cross, died for your SINS< because you are a SINNER.
So, never pretend you have any righteousness, other then what God has provided to the world as...
"The Gift of Righteousness" who is JESUS.
So, put away your false pretenses, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good. 1 Peter 2
For how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one Man, Jesus Christ! Rom 5:17
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6:23
 
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Chaleb

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For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6:23


Yes.

Eternal life is a "GIFT"

Salvation is a "Gift"

Righteousness is a "GIFT"

And the """"GIFT's of God are without repentance'""".
God will never take them back or take them away from the Born again.

"""""" 1.) The GIFT of Salvation
2.) The GIFT of Righteousness
3.) The GIFT of Eternal life. """"""
 
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Dah'veed

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Yes. Eternal life is a "GIFT"
Salvation is a "Gift" Righteousness is a "GIFT"
And the """"GIFT's of God are without repentance'""".
God will never take them back or take them away from the Born again.
1.) The GIFT of Salvation
2.) The GIFT of Righteousness
3.) The GIFT of Eternal life.
Yes. "I will send the advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. ...I will come to you." John 14:16-18
 
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Douglas Brian McIntire

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I am an oddity in this forum then, for I am neither catholic (papist) nor calvinist. I am a Christian, belonging neither to a particular religious sect nor to a “denomination”.

Since you are new, I will recap the position that I find in Scripture that most people who call themselves Christians today ignore.

The blood of Jesus shed on the cross is the only means by which man can be saved (synonymous with: forgiven, justified, united with Christ, and other similar terms). Without the blood of Jesus we would all be hopelessly lost for eternity. But His blood is not received automatically. Its reception is conditional upon our faith (Eph 2:8-9). Without faith we cannot please God or receive forgiveness. And faith is not passive, nor is it a purely mental experience. Faith must be acted upon to be complete, alive, and worthwhile (James 2:26).

A review of all the passages that talk about salvation and what is required to receive it, will identify four things: Belief (which in every usage talking about salvation comes from the Greek word “pistis” which means faith), Repentance (Acts 3:19), Confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and Baptism (Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16). It is during baptism that the Holy Spirit removes our sin, unites us with Christ Jesus’ death and resurrection, and adds us to the Church (Rom 6:1-4, Col 2:11-14). And the baptism referred to here is in water, (Acts 22:16, 1 Pet 3:21, Eph 5:26, Acts 8:36-38).

It is not the water, but the Blood of Christ which we encounter only when we are baptized, that saves us.

I will mention Ephesians 2:8-10 yet IN CONTEXT. Wait for it...

Yes! If You believe you know More than God, If you believe you know more than Jesus, or if you believe you know more than His Apostles, and you more than all the writers of the New Testament, to you a "free gift" would be "You get to remain in your sins."

Contend for the Faith...​

3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. (Jude 1:3-5)

Error...​

3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to the wholesome words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. (1 Timothy 6:3-5)

8
See to it that there is no one who takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception in accordance with human tradition, in accordance with the elementary principles of the world, rather than in accordance with Christ. (Colossians 2:8)

14
Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found spotless and blameless by Him, at peace, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother...

Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which there are some things that are hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

"which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction."


DO YOU BELIEVE YOU KNOW MORE THAN JESUS?


TWO KINDS OF BELIEVERS...

Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire...​

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

but he who does the will of My Father in heaven...​

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Two Kinds of Believers...​


TRUE BELIEVER...
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

FALSE BELIEVER...
26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.” (Matthew 7:15-27)


YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE "FREE GIFT" IS:

GOD"S "GRACE" IS THE UNMERITED FAVOR AND ABILITY TO BE EITHER FOR GOD OR AGAINST HIM THROUGH INDIVIDUAL CHOICE (FREEWILL) OF TURNING TO JESUS AND BEING HEALDED, JUST LIKE WHAT ADAM AND EVE HAD BEFORE THE FALL BUT CHOSE NOT TOO...


10
For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all time; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 So you too, consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Therefore sin is not to reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the parts of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead, and your body’s parts as instruments of righteousness for God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under the Law but under grace.

15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under the Law but under grace? Far from it! 16 Do you not know that the one to whom you present yourselves as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of that same one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were entrusted, 18 and after being freed from sin, you became slaves to righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented the parts of your body as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your body’s parts as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in relation to righteousness. 21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gracious gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:20-23)

4
God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our wrongdoings, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the boundless riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. (Ephesians 2:4-10)

"For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all time" (Romans 6:10)

4
God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our wrongdoings, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved) (Ephesians 2:4-5)

16
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. 18 The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (John 3:16-18)

33
He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true. 34 For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure. 35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. 36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” (John 3:33-35)

"he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
 
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FutureAndAHope

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What happened to "While we were yet sinners Christ died for us???
Yes, we were sinners. But it is our response to God's message that counts. Do we love, and obey the message?

Do you remember the old song?

Love and obey, for there is no other way,
to be happy in Jesus but to love and obey.
 
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Lost Witness

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Yes, we were sinners. But it is our response to God's message that counts. Do we love, and obey the message?

Do you remember the old song?

Love and obey, for there is no other way,
to be happy in Jesus but to love and obey.
When do we stop being a sinner?
 
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FutureAndAHope

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When do we stop being a sinner?
It is true that:

Ecc 7:20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.

and

Gal 5:13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

But equally so:

1Jn 3:8-10 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

Rom 6:1- What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
 
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Carl Emerson

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It is true that:

Ecc 7:20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.

and

Gal 5:13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

But equally so:

1Jn 3:8-10 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

Rom 6:1- What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

How about 1 John 1:8

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
 
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