The order of fossils in the geological column

[OldWiseGuy]

When you take advantage (every day of your life) of what modern science has provided you, do you look at as someone pointing a gun and killing someone?

Of course not. I use science everyday and am grateful for it, but I'm also a believer in miracles and the supernatural. Best of both worlds.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You say that as if there aren't scapegoats other than the Jews. They aren't the only group which has received such treatment.

What other ethnic group has received such treatment for so long (of course the lineage of Canaan appears to still be under the curse of servitude).

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The reason why is that the bible claims that it is the answer to everything without evidence to back those claims, so people seek out and emphasize information which supports the bible, at the exclusion of information that doesn't. Science on the other hand starts out with no answers, and seeks them out through observation, experimentation, etc., thus all new information has something to support it. That science changes is how we make progress towards the truth, to assume the truth without evidence is an easy way to stop progress and accept things that aren't true.

Not true. Except for a very few subjects science and religion are in general agreement. The real subject for debate is what do these differences mean in real everyday life.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You seem to be refusing to even consider that a "high water mark" of 16,000 ft above sea level can not happen in a gentle event. Not to mention that there are many mountains higher than that which would have a "high water mark" on them and yet we don't see it.

I'm guessing a high water mark above 16,000 feet would have been washed or worn away by now.

 

[Dusty Bin]

Yes we saw Him 2000 years ago. We see Him work also since then.

Is there any chance that someone was doing a Joseph Smith Jr? or didn't people tell lies then? what if they did?
that's where your faith is needed, were those people telling lies?

Did Jesus really rise from the dead or did someone add that story to the Bible later? it doesn't matter does it?
what matters is what you want to believe, what you want to be true, what really happened is not that important is it?
the only truth that's important is your truth, what you want to be true.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Is there any chance that someone was doing a Joseph Smith Jr? or didn't people tell lies then? what if they did?
that's where your faith is needed, were those people telling lies?

Did Jesus really rise from the dead or did someone add that story to the Bible later? it doesn't matter does it?
what matters is what you want to believe, what you want to be true, what really happened is not that important is it?
the only truth that's important is your truth, what you want to be true.

Everything else we do and think is based on inappropriate desires and false perceptions, which becomes our reality, why not religion?

 

[bhsmte]

Everything else we do and think is based on inappropriate desires and false perceptions, which becomes our reality, why not religion?

Everything we do???

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Everything we do???

A hyperbolic figure of speech.

 

[Dusty Bin]

Is there any chance that someone was doing a Joseph Smith Jr? or didn't people tell lies then? what if they did?
that's where your faith is needed, were those people telling lies?

Did Jesus really rise from the dead or did someone add that story to the Bible later? it doesn't matter does it?
what matters is what you want to believe, what you want to be true, what really happened is not that important is it?
the only truth that's important is your truth, what you want to be true.

Everything else we do and think is based on inappropriate desires and false perceptions, which becomes our reality, why not religion?

Everything?

A hyperbolic figure of speech.

At last we have got to the end.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Is there any chance that someone was doing a Joseph Smith Jr? or didn't people tell lies then? what if they did?
that's where your faith is needed, were those people telling lies?

Did Jesus really rise from the dead or did someone add that story to the Bible later? it doesn't matter does it?
what matters is what you want to believe, what you want to be true, what really happened is not that important is it?
the only truth that's important is your truth, what you want to be true.


Everything?

At last we have got to the end.

You really don't understand, do you? Tsk, tsk, tsk.

'Everything' (hyperbole) = a whole lot of things.

 

[Loudmouth]

That is not Noah who have told Moses about the Flood but God.
Jesus validated the account of the Flood given to Moses.

Then you have a very serious problem. There was no recent global flood and if Jesus was the son of the creator God of this Earth and the universe, then he would have known that.

 

[Riberra]

Then you have a very serious problem. There was no *recent* global flood

By -no*recent* you seem to imply that an ancient global flood have happened and left traces.

and if Jesus was the son of the creator God of this Earth and the universe, then he would have known that.

If you have no idea what the Earth looked before Noah's global flood how do you know that the landscape we observe now is not the result of it ?
The weight of a 5 miles high flood surely should have an effect on the Earth crust.

 

[Loudmouth]

By -no*recent* you seem to imply that an ancient global flood have happened and left traces.

A global flood from 4.4 billion years ago would be a little tougher to detect since we don't have a lot of that sediment left. However, a global flood within the last 3 billion years would be easily detectable in the geologic record.

If you have no idea what the Earth looked before Noah's global flood how do you know that the landscape we observe now is not the result of it ?

We know what flood deposits look like. These are determined by the laws of physics. We do not find any global flood deposits from the recent past.

The weight of a 5 miles high flood surely should have an effect on the Earth crust.

It would leave a worldwide flood deposit, which isn't seen.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

We know what flood deposits look like. These are determined by the laws of physics. We do not find any global flood deposits from the recent past.

It would leave a worldwide flood deposit, which isn't seen.

What exactly are geologists looking for? That has never been explained to my satisfaction.

 

[Loudmouth]

What exactly are geologists looking for?

A large grained sediment from the same time period as dated by ash fall, 14C dating, etc. This sediment should be found worldwide.

In ice records, we shouldn't find any that go right through this time period. We shouldn't find lake varves and tree ring records that blaze right through this time period without interruption.

Added by edit:

Here is a nice picture illustrating the contrast between normal deposition and flood deposition.

In the middle are a set of layers with alternating color. These are varves from slowly settling and fine sediments. They are different colors because of the different rates of upstream erosion each spring cycle. Notice how smooth these sediments look, and how you can't pick out any grains at all. Compare this to the sediments above and below the varves. These are coarse grained and do not show these finely captured layers. Those are flood deposits. That is how easy it is to tell the difference.

 

[bhsmte]

What exactly are geologists looking for? That has never been explained to my satisfaction.

Why don't you look it up on your own? Always better when we learn on our own. Plenty of information available from legit geologists on the internet.

 

[Dusty Bin]

A large grained sediment from the same time period as dated by ash fall, 14C dating, etc. This sediment should be found worldwide.

In ice records, we shouldn't find any that go right through this time period. We shouldn't find lake varves and tree ring records that blaze right through this time period without interruption.

Let's just look at the ice record, if a flood had sat on top of the polar ice caps I think at the very least it would left a stain on the ice, guess what, there's no stain anywhere.

 

[Loudmouth]

Let's just look at the ice record, if a flood had sat on top of the polar ice caps I think at the very least it would left a stain on the ice, guess what, there's no stain anywhere.

Ice floats. It would have stripped the ice caps right off the land.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

A large grained sediment from the same time period as dated by ash fall, 14C dating, etc. This sediment should be found worldwide.

In ice records, we shouldn't find any that go right through this time period. We shouldn't find lake varves and tree ring records that blaze right through this time period without interruption.

Added by edit:

Here is a nice picture illustrating the contrast between normal deposition and flood deposition.

In the middle are a set of layers with alternating color. These are varves from slowly settling and fine sediments. They are different colors because of the different rates of upstream erosion each spring cycle. Notice how smooth these sediments look, and how you can't pick out any grains at all. Compare this to the sediments above and below the varves. These are coarse grained and do not show these finely captured layers. Those are flood deposits. That is how easy it is to tell the difference.

How would large grained deposits form globally and uniformly from slow moving water?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Ice floats. It would have stripped the ice caps right off the land.

No. The ice caps are fused/frozen to the land. It would take longer than one year to loosen them. Any degrading of the surface would be concealed by normal weathering.